Knowledge In The Spirit World

[Stone holm]

Today a rather unusually interesting discussion erupted in Gospel Doctrine Class which I am almost positive was not in the manual. The question was whether spirits in the spirit world prior to the resurrection have the knowledge they had in in the pre-existence fully restored. I believe those who said no, had logic on their side, but am curious what you theological buffs have to say on the subject and the basis of your thoughts.

[Judd]

As a kid I believed that you'd remember pre-mortal life after dying, but there's no evidence to suggest that (in fact, to the contrary). I'm quite satisfied with the "I don't know" answer.

[strappinglad]

I'm reasonably sure that in the spirit world after death , you can google it.

[halconero]

No doctrine to support this, but I have sometimes felt that the veil of forgetfulness was induced by the biological limitations of the mortal brain (don't read this as the 10% brain use trope). I believe that the spirit, when unburdened with a mortal body, will be able to remember its past.

On the other hand, I wonder what effect a memory of the past would have on missionary work in the Spirit World.

[changed]

...the veil of forgetfulness ...

I always assumed that once you were beyond the veil, you could see/remember everything again... for those who become Gods, it seems God is all-knowing, so it makes sense that you would gain those memories back again, just my opinion though.

[ronin]

I believe it might be selective, some of us might receive our memories back as soon as, or shortly after we die. Others who are more entrenched in the physical world or things of the world will not receive those memories nearly as fast hence the reason for missionary work in the spirit world.

[mfbukowski]

Today a rather unusually interesting discussion erupted in Gospel Doctrine Class which I am almost positive was not in the manual. The question was whether spirits in the spirit world prior to the resurrection have the knowledge they had in in the pre-existence fully restored. I believe those who said no, had logic on their side, but am curious what you theological buffs have to say on the subject and the basis of your thoughts.

What difference does it make?

[changed]

... the reason for missionary work in the spirit world.

that is an interesting point - why the need for missionary work if we could remember the premortal war/council/plan of salvation etc. etc.? but then missionary work involves much more than just understanding the logistics of how it all works, it's learning where you personally fit into the big picture, learning to have faith, learning how to love, how to change your priorities in life, how to be obedient etc. etc. conversion is a process of self-refinement, not nececcisarily just knowing the facts.

[JDave]

What difference does it make?

To the speculative discussion at hand, or to our eternal salvation? If it's on the quiz at the pearly gates, I sure hope I at least regain a memory of this discussion thread after I move on to the Spirit World.

[Lightbearer]

My personal opinion is that the veil is lifted gradually and that the veil is spiritual darkness. For those who have attained to a certain level of faith... yes perhaps the memories of our premortal life is revealed. But to the mass of humanity in general, no, or else how could the Gospel be preached in the spirit world and then men live unto God in the spirit? I don't think it will be fully revealed until after the resurrection and judgment.

[Stone holm]

I'm reasonably sure that in the spirit world after death , you can google it.

You think google has invaded the spirit world?

[CV75]

Today a rather unusually interesting discussion erupted in Gospel Doctrine Class which I am almost positive was not in the manual. The question was whether spirits in the spirit world prior to the resurrection have the knowledge they had in in the pre-existence fully restored. I believe those who said no, had logic on their side, but am curious what you theological buffs have to say on the subject and the basis of your thoughts.

I'm not a theological buff, but where there is opposition in all things, the veil or forgetfulness has to be countered by the window of rememberance. And where there are degrees in everything, the veiling and unveiling can ocuurr gradually, and in different times and places. But generally speaking, it seems to me:

Where the spirit world is an extension or our probationary state (where we can still make and keep the covenants that have been offered), it would seem that the veil would still need to be in place, or at least it is consistent that it is still in place. Where we are judged after we are resurrected, which is after we are in the spirit world, and this is when we have a "bright recollection of all out guilt," we might not even have a full recollection of our mortal life during our time in the spirit world, and if we could not remeber al of that, then it is reasonable that we would not remember the pre-mortal world either.

But outside of guilt in the resurrection, the Holy Ghost brings all things to remberance whenever the Lord sees fit that we need to know, or are willing to receive.

[Stone holm]

I'm not a theological buff, but where there is opposition in all things, the veil or forgetfulness has to be countered by the window of rememberance. And where there are degrees in everything, the veiling and unveiling can ocuurr gradually, and in different times and places. But generally speaking, it seems to me:

Where the spirit world is an extension or our probationary state (where we can still make and keep the covenants that have been offered), it would seem that the veil would still need to be in place, or at least it is consistent that it is still in place. Where we are judged after we are resurrected, which is after we are in the spirit world, and this is when we have a "bright recollection of all out guilt," we might not even have a full recollection of our mortal life during our time in the spirit world, and if we could not remeber al of that, then it is reasonable that we would not remember the pre-mortal world either.

But outside of guilt in the resurrection, the Holy Ghost brings all things to remberance whenever the Lord sees fit that we need to know, or are willing to receive.

Oh my gosh, the world is coming to an end, I agree with CV75 on something.

[boulder257]

So the general consensus is that our spirit does not remember our mortal state until after the veil is lifted, which will occur when our spirit is reunited with our body?

[Stone holm]

So the general consensus is that our spirit does not remember our mortal state until after the veil is lifted, which will occur when our spirit is reunited with our body?

It seems hard to logically justify the lifting of the veil over knowledge of the pre-existence upon death if you believe in the possibility of missionary work and repentance of spirits in prison -- the same arguments which existed for the veil during mortality would apply during this period as well. Eventually the knowledge must be restored, but exactly when -- I am not positive. On the other hand, I know of no doctrine on the subject so this is based on logic rather than necessarily inspiration. But normally, logic tends to lead to correct doctrinal understanding in the long run.

[strappinglad]

You think google has invaded the spirit world?

Actually , google is the mortal version of the heavenly search engine known, I believe, as DELVE which can be accessed through a UT connection .

To be somewhat more serious, we are told that upon death we are taken before our maker and ,according the NDE experiences, we are given a life review . Some NDErs have said they were able to receive knowledge about any question they had and some said they could enter a library type building for that purpose . Whether that knowledge contained info about the pre-existence is not clear, but it did include info on the mortal time.

Edited August 12, 2013 by strappinglad

[Stone holm]

Actually , google is the mortal version of the heavenly search engine known, I believe, as DELVE which can be accessed through a UT connection .

But as I understand the doctrine we don't get our personal UT until the resurrection so unless there is some other form of search engine in the spirit world we would appear to be offline during this segment of existence.

[strappinglad]

It's kind of like an internet café, where in one can use the establishment's house connection until such time as you get your own.

[CV75]

Oh my gosh, the world is coming to an end, I agree with CV75 on something.

Ha-ha! You just forget all the other stuff we agree on!

[Calm]

On the other hand, I wonder what effect a memory of the past would have on missionary work in the Spirit World.

It seems to me that what is to be finally accomplished in the Spirit World is our decision of how much we want to accept the Atonement in our lives and that will require a full knowledge of what we will be getting at all levels, imo. I don't see God requiring us to make a decision that will affect us for the rest of eternity without having a full understanding and knowledge of what that means...at least as far as that is possible without experiencing it.

If so, that doesn't mean that for at least part of the time the veil might still be in place, but eventually it will have to be lifted. I believe the veil needed to be in place so we could figure out what we want for ourselves as opposed to having the huge influence of God around us knowing that he wants us to have a fulness of joy, to be exalted with him (much like how we are affected by our parents' wishes when we are young so that often their expectations become our expectations without us ever really thinking about it and whether or not we want it, but as we get older and have experiences away from home, we develop our own set of expectations and desires. I think that we will be able to look back at our experiences and with our full knowledge of before and who we were then as well as in our mortality and be able to determine what we want without our current knowledge of God imposing his Will upon us as it might have when we were less experienced in making choices.

[Calm]

I believe it might be selective, some of us might receive our memories back as soon as, or shortly after we die. Others who are more entrenched in the physical world or things of the world will not receive those memories nearly as fast hence the reason for missionary work in the spirit world.

This makes sense to me.

[Calm]

else how could the Gospel be preached in the spirit world and then men live unto God in the spirit? I don't think it will be fully revealed until after the resurrection and judgment.

Perhaps it is more about understanding what the Gospel implies for us than just straight knowledge of the Gospel that matters then. Perhas missionary work is more like therapy, giving people the chance to discuss and think over with someone all the implications of their choices and what that means for what they want in the future.

[Stone holm]

It seems to me that what is to be finally accomplished in the Spirit World is our decision of how much we want to accept the Atonement in our lives and that will require a full knowledge of what we will be getting at all levels, imo. I don't see God requiring us to make a decision that will affect us for the rest of eternity without having a full understanding and knowledge of what that means...at least as far as that is possible without experiencing it.

If so, that doesn't mean that for at least part of the time the veil might still be in place, but eventually it will have to be lifted. I believe the veil needed to be in place so we could figure out what we want for ourselves as opposed to having the huge influence of God around us knowing that he wants us to have a fulness of joy, to be exalted with him (much like how we are affected by our parents' wishes when we are young so that often their expectations become our expectations without us ever really thinking about it and whether or not we want it, but as we get older and have experiences away from home, we develop our own set of expectations and desires. I think that we will be able to look back at our experiences and with our full knowledge of before and who we were then as well as in our mortality and be able to determine what we want without our current knowledge of God imposing his Will upon us as it might have when we were less experienced in making choices.

Really, and if full disclosure was the rule, then why a veil in the first place?

[Calm]

Really, and if full disclosure was the rule, then why a veil in the first place?

Did you miss this part:

I believe the veil needed to be in place so we could figure out what we want for ourselves as opposed to having the huge influence of God around us knowing that he wants us to have a fulness of joy, to be exalted with him

[Stone holm]

Did you miss this part:

And that would not be true of the Spirits in Prison who had never heard of Mormonism exactly how?