savedbygrace Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 My question is, would Joseph Smith and Brigham Young recognise the LDS church of today as the church that they founded and organised?
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 No.They would, however, recognise it as the church that the Lord Himself founded and extended through them, and I rather suspect they'd be tickled to see how it's continued to grow and develop since their time since both of them were acutely aware of how 'alive' the Lord's church has to be. 1
Storm Rider Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 I would expect they would immediately recognize the Church. Those things that are most vital to our relationship with Jesus Christ and following him are very much intact. I expect they both would be both pleased and disappointed in the growth of the Church. I expect they would also do some things a little differently, but those things also have nothing to do with our salvation. Your question is surprising; do you think they would not be able to recognize the Church of Jesus Christ?
Robert F. Smith Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Both Brigham and Joseph are part of the continuing Council in Heaven and are full participants in bringing the Plan of Salvation to fruition. 4
Garden Girl Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 I would expect they would immediately recognize the Church. Those things that are most vital to our relationship with Jesus Christ and following him are very much intact.I agree... Why wouldn't they recognize the Church today... I agree the core doctrines are still intact... we still adhere to the Articles of Faith that Joseph put forth to summarize our theology.We still have the same Plan of Salvation/Happiness... baptism... sacrament prayers/administering... same priesthood... same structure of prophets and apostles... same view of eternal marriage/families.... the Church has grown and matured, but the Church is very recognizable...GG
Kenngo1969 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 No.They would, however, recognise it as the church that the Lord Himself founded and extended through them, and I rather suspect they'd be tickled to see how it's continued to grow and develop since their time since both of them were acutely aware of how 'alive' the Lord's church has to be.I suspect they are tickled by those things, and that and that they are aware of that. In fact, I more than suspect it; actually, I'm quite sure of it!
Kenngo1969 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 I would expect they would immediately recognize the Church. Those things that are most vital to our relationship with Jesus Christ and following him are very much intact. I expect they both would be both pleased and disappointed in the growth of the Church. I expect they would also do some things a little differently, but those things also have nothing to do with our salvation. Your question is surprising; do you think they would not be able to recognize the Church of Jesus Christ?[Emphasis added by Kenngo1969]No, it's not. Take a look at SBG's posting history. S/he likes to yank Mormons' chains by hitting-and-running, and rarely participates extensively in threads once started. I rather suspect s/he enjoys watching us Mormons chase our tails. (Maybe I'm just cynical ... )
Calm Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Both Brigham and Joseph are part of the continuing Council in Heaven and are full participants in bringing the Plan of Salvation to fruition.Yeah...I think it would be rather hard for them to have missed what has been going on the past 150 years or so, makes it difficult to surprise them much or play a game of "can you guess what this is?", don't you think?
Storm Rider Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 No, it's not. Take a look at SBG's posting history. S/he likes to yank Mormons' chains by hitting-and-running, and rarely participates extensively in threads once started. I rather suspect s/he enjoys watching us Mormons chase our tails. (Maybe I'm just cynical ... )That would be unfortunate. These types of questions are inane, but whatever floats their boat. I think this participant may be worth adding to the ignore list. I reviewed some of their posts and they don't seem to be interested in contributing in any meaningful way. Good for the goose is good for the gander, I guess....SBG, do you think any of the early apostles would recognize you as a Christian today?
kassie Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 I believe the Church would still be recognizable. As MEN, they might look askance at some of the changes in the Church over the years. They might not agree with the end of Polygamy on earth (see quotation below), they might not agree with the changes in the BOM over the years. But as PROPHETS I think they would be delighted that the people of the LDS church still follow the teachings of the prophets, and most especially the prophet we have today. D &C 132:4-6 says; “For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory. For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world. And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fullness of my glory; and he that receiveth fullness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.”
Ticketyboo Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 FWIW, I think that they might have a far more difficult time in recognising many of the protestant churches against what they knew in their time. 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 I suspect they are tickled by those things, and that and that they are aware of that. In fact, I more than suspect it; actually, I'm quite sure of it! No doubt. Just playing along with the OP's hypothetical time travel scenario.
boulder257 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Both Brigham and Joseph are part of the continuing Council in Heaven and are full participants in bringing the Plan of Salvation to fruition.Could you maybe elaborate on this a little more for me. As a non-mormon I am not familiar with this concept. Are you suggesting that they are making decisions in heaven that affect the outcome of those here on earth?
Popular Post Kevin Christensen Posted August 7, 2013 Popular Post Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) My question is, would Joseph Smith and Brigham Young recognise the LDS church of today as the church that they founded and organised?Looking over a thriving vineyard."I don't understand... this was all barren ground where I planted those little seeds... Now.. I barely recognize it. All these growing things, laden with fruit... those weeds, over there, the occasional fallen fruit, rotting on the ground, insects and birds, some contributing to pollination, some devouring the leaves, or harvest... All this... change... I should have planted rocks, I suppose. Good old, static, unchanging, constant rocks. Delicious,, reliable, nutritious rocks. Something to just sit there."FWIWKevin ChristensenBethel Park, PA Edited August 7, 2013 by Kevin Christensen 7
CV75 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 My question is, would Joseph Smith and Brigham Young recognise the LDS church of today as the church that they founded and organised?Yes, after all, they are Prophets. 1
Buzzard Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 What is different:-Three hour blocks, including Sunday School and Priesthood/RS meetings on Sunday-PEC/Ward Council/BYC meetings-Bishops only serving a few years-Seventies being GA's-Emphasis on WOW-No Polygamy-No gathering to central location-Lessons, etc... are now correlated and uniform church wide.-BYU Football and Basketball being central to testimony of the gospel.What is the same:-Sacrament of the Lord's supper being central to worship-Temple sealings and endowment (yes, i know the endowment has evolved)-Organization of the church into Stakes of Zion and wards-Lay clergy-Tithing, though in-kind contributions are no longer accepted-Home Teaching-Missionary Work and members being sent out on full time missions.-The Book of Mormon being the keystone of our religion.-Articles of Faith-Church discipline for serious transgressions.-Restored understanding of the Atonement-both that it occurred in Gethsemane, not on the cross, and that it is infinite.I'm sure there are more you could list in both categories, but that is a quick and dirty list. It seems to my untrained eyes, that what has changed is mainly procedural and cultural, plural marriage being a glaring exception. What has not changed are the central core doctrines. So while it might take Brother Brigham a few weeks to find where the HP group meets after Sunday School, he would be just fine with what he heard preached there. As for Brother Joseph, he would irritate the SS teachers by not worrying about when Sacrament Meeting was supposed to end, and talking 20 minutes past his allotted time. Even with only singing the first verse of the closing song, we would be behind. But nobody else would really mind, because after all, he IS Brother Joseph. - 2
Alan Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 In my opinion I think they would be concerned about the "Corporate Church", but happy with the church itself (meaning the ecclessia or assembly/congregation of believers), ie. the real church. 2
savedbygrace Posted August 7, 2013 Author Posted August 7, 2013 I don't know if they would recognise it as the organisation they left. I was wondering, if they came back, without the benefit of any heavenly knowledge, and they compared the LDS church with all the splinter groups from the original, would they on principle align themselves with that which most closely resembles that which they lef with its ordinances and teachings. Or would they look at the most successful. it's wealth etc. and seeing this would vanity, get in the way and they would align themselves with it, regardless of the fact that some of those distinctive teachings have been chaged Furthermore, would the resident prophet just move out of the way, and which one would be leader, as they would all be God's anointed.
Vance Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 No doubt that they would recognize the church and align themselves with it.
savedbygrace Posted August 7, 2013 Author Posted August 7, 2013 No doubt that they would recognize the church and align themselves with it.which one?
savedbygrace Posted August 7, 2013 Author Posted August 7, 2013 FWIW, I think that they might have a far more difficult time in recognising many of the protestant churches against what they knew in their time.I agree, there are certainly many more of them, but there are many more mormon based churches, I say that because they still hold to the teachings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young at least according to their understanding of them, yet are not mainstream LDS
Vance Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 which one?Ha Ha!!! Duh!!! "the Church" as in "the true Church" as in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
savedbygrace Posted August 7, 2013 Author Posted August 7, 2013 But is it the true church of Jesus Christ of LDS as they knew it, or are there others that more closely resemble it, and don't they all claim to be the true church?
Sleeper Cell Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 I don't know if they would recognise it as the organisation they left. I was wondering, if they came back, without the benefit of any heavenly knowledge, and they compared the LDS church with all the splinter groups from the original, would they on principle align themselves with that which most closely resembles that which they lef with its ordinances and teachings. Or would they look at the most successful. it's wealth etc. and seeing this would vanity, get in the way and they would align themselves with it, regardless of the fact that some of those distinctive teachings have been chaged Furthermore, would the resident prophet just move out of the way, and which one would be leader, as they would all be God's anointed.[Emphasis added]Joseph Smith would re-read the epistle of James. Then he would find an isolated spot in a nearby grove of trees …
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