The Modern Lds Church

[savedbygrace]

Why did Almighty God stop circumcision?

I thought you were ignoring me.!

There is no longer a need for circumcision because through the work of salvation is completed in the sacrifice of Christ, therefore Christians who of course originally Jews, were and are no longer under the old covenant. What has this got to do with polygamy? God's work is complete in Christ, he didn't set aside circumcision for political expediency.

So please don't feel you have to waste any more of your time reading or answering my posts, just stick to the original plan.

[canard78]

Wow, your credibility with me just plummeted...

I will now put you on ignore so as not to waste my time in the future.

How do you do that? Or is it just a mental checklist?

[Calm]

How do you do that? Or is it just a mental checklist?

Go to your name in the upper righthand corner, pull down menu and you should see "manage ignore prefs" or something close. Click on that, then at the bottom where there is a slot, type in the name of the user you want to "ignore" than indicate what aspects one wants to use ignore for....posts, chats, messages and signature, IIRC.

Then save it.

After that, all you see is their name with an option to open the post if you are interested in seeing it. I use it for a few posters, the ones that only have negative slams to say without substance...the drivebyers who don't generally last too long anyway...and those who like to engage in mindgames/setups so that I don't feel obliged to answer, but may do so if I see something of interest in a response of someone else's.

savedbygrace falls into the second category because this whole thread looks like it was solely so s/he could come out with that Joseph Smith as womanizing, powerhungry, lover of money and all things worldly post.

Edited August 9, 2013 by calmoriah

[canard78]

Often the speakers are assigned a conference talk, our HP group is assigned a conference talk for a priesthood lesson, my home teaching lessons often reflect something from General Conference.

I am puzzed why you do not understand why this is done. It seems that you are missing something.

I've no issue with the talks being used in lessons and home teaching settings. I've no problems with them being used as reference material in a sacrament talk on a given topic. But when someone stands up and gives a 15 minute summary of a conference talk that I can read for myself I wonder what merit it serves. It just seems like lazy topic assignment and lazy talk preparation.

Edited August 9, 2013 by canard78

[Calm]

I've no issue with the talks being used in lessons and home teaching settings. I've no problems with them being used as reference material in a sacrament talk on a given topic. But when someone stands up and gives a 15 minute summary of a conference talk that I can read for myself I wonder what merit it serves. It just seems like lazy topic assignment and lazy talk preparation.

I don't get RS/PH manuals set up that way either...I mean I can read the manuals and am encouraged to do so before class so if all we do is read the quotes in class, why bother going? (I have to admit I don't often due to not being able to sit down for three hours...and I have a medical excuse for it too so gone are the days I felt guilty about it or had to have a baby around to pinch so she could squirm to give me a reason to get up and walk the halls ). Edited August 9, 2013 by calmoriah

[Ahab]

I've no issue with the talks being used in lessons and home teaching settings. I've no problems with them being used as reference material in a sacrament talk on a given topic. But when someone stands up and gives a 15 minute summary of a conference talk that I can read for myself I wonder what merit it serves. It just seems like lazy topic assignment and lazy talk preparation.

People are at different levels in the Church, don't cha know. Some people are so terrified of standing up in front of 100+ people that they feel more comfortable reading what they have prepared to talk about, and even then they don't feel very comfortable. Others don't use any notes and cite or allude to scripture from memory while appearing to be perfectly calm and at home. We're all saying things that have been said by somebody else before us, even if we don't realize it. I focus on just trying to understand the speaker's personality and seeing where they are, spiritually, so I understand more about the people I meet with. I already know to go to God when I want to learn more about him and what he thinks.

[Hamba Tuhan]

[W]hen someone stands up and gives a 15 minute summary of a conference talk that I can read for myself I wonder what merit it serves. It just seems like lazy topic assignment and lazy talk preparation.

People are at different levels in the Church, don't cha know.

I'm more than fine with people being at different levels in the Church. The active members in our ward, for example, include six people who were baptised in the 60s and seven converts who've been baptised in the past nine months. In addition, at least half a dozen first languages are spoken. But that just means that I have to be even more vigilant not to slip into 'lazy mode' when assigning topics to speakers.

Below is a recent assignment I gave to a sister whose first language is not the one we use in sacrament meeting and who was giving her first-ever sacrament meeting talk:

Dear Sis A-----,

Many thanks again for your willingness to speak to the ward members on Sunday, 21 July. Our theme for sacrament meeting is ‘the commandments of God’.

Our youth speaker will be addressing ‘God gives us commandments because he loves us’, and our final speaker will be speaking on ‘Obedience to commandments is an expression of our love’.

I would ask you please to prepare a sermon on the following topic: ‘Obedience to commandments is liberty’. As you prepare, please ponder the following scriptures:

• Isaiah 61:1
  
• John 8:31–32
  
• 2 Corinthians 3:17
  
• Galatians 5:1
  
• 1 John 2:3–6
  
• 1 John 3:24
  
• 1 Nephi 17:3
  
• Mosiah 2:22
  
• Doctrine & Covenants 98:8
  

Please also consider the teachings presented by Elder L. Tom Perry in his April 2013 General Conference address, ‘Obedience to Law is Liberty’ (attached). As you prepare prayerfully, I encourage you to allow the Spirit to guide your thoughts, which may also take you to other scriptures and additional words of the living prophets. I would also strongly encourage you to consider personal experiences that you might share that would bless those who listen to your words; the practical application of gospel principles in real situations is an important part of what and how we teach.

Please plan to speak for 12–15 minutes. The goal in everything you share should be to help ward members realise that God gives us commandments precisely because He wants us to be free, and in His wisdom He knows how to protect us from harm. Obedience to the commandments of God helps us to escape spiritual bondage of all kinds, increases our agency, and opens up many more choices for us.

If you have any questions or concerns as you prepare, please don’t hesitate to contact me. I’m here to help.

The talk she delivered had been written out carefully and was read out mostly word-for-word, but it was good. She included personal anecdotes, referred to some of the scriptures, and read out a handful of specific passages from the General Conference talk. She also expressed how pleased she was to have the opportunity to speak.

[canard78]

I don't get RS/PH manuals set up that way either...I mean I can read the manuals and am encouraged to do so before class so if all we do is read the quotes in class, why bother going? (I have to admit I don't often due to not being able to sit down for three hours...and I have a medical excuse for it too so gone are the days I felt guilty about it or had to have a baby around to pinch so she could squirm to give me a reason to get up and walk the halls ).

I'm glad I'm not the only one who misses my kids being babes in arms for the same reasons

[canard78]

People are at different levels in the Church, don't cha know. Some people are so terrified of standing up in front of 100+ people that they feel more comfortable reading what they have prepared to talk about, and even then they don't feel very comfortable. Others don't use any notes and cite or allude to scripture from memory while appearing to be perfectly calm and at home. We're all saying things that have been said by somebody else before us, even if we don't realize it. I focus on just trying to understand the speaker's personality and seeing where they are, spiritually, so I understand more about the people I meet with. I already know to go to God when I want to learn more about him and what he thinks.

I've no problem with people reading from a printed prepared talk. I usually have summary notes and ramble a little too much. The other day I wrote my talk out in full and reviewed and edited it. I learnt it and still read directly from it, almost verbatim. It's one of the talks I'm the most pleased with as there was very little 'wastage.'

My concern is when people are given an assignment which is a talk from conference (rather than a theme with, if needed, suggested reference material) and also when they take the conference talk and do little more than re-read 15 minutes worth of it.

[canard78]

I'm more than fine with people being at different levels in the Church. The active members in our ward, for example, include six people who were baptised in the 60s and seven converts who've been baptised in the past nine months. In addition, at least half a dozen first languages are spoken. But that just means that I have to be even more vigilant not to slip into 'lazy mode' when assigning topics to speakers.

Below is a recent assignment I gave to a sister whose first language is not the one we use in sacrament meeting and who was giving her first-ever sacrament meeting talk:

The talk she delivered had been written out carefully and was read out mostly word-for-word, but it was good. She included personal anecdotes, referred to some of the scriptures, and read out a handful of specific passages from the General Conference talk. She also expressed how pleased she was to have the opportunity to speak.

I commend you on your excellent assignment

May it ever and wider be so.

[Calm]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who misses my kids being babes in arms for the same reasons

I should say that the pinching is a joke in case there is someone out there who takes me seriously and thinks to do the same, one never really has to explain when one is a mom (or dad) why one gets up when one is carrying a kid...everyone knows there are a myriad of good reasons to do so.

[canard78]

I should say that the pinching is a joke in case there is someone out there who takes me seriously and thinks to do the same, one never really has to explain when one is a mom (or dad) why one gets up when one is carrying a kid...everyone knows there are a myriad of good reasons to do so.

Me too - just for the record Sometimes dry humour doesn't work in written form.

[why me]

My question is, would Joseph Smith and Brigham Young recognise the LDS church of today as the church that they founded and organised?

No. But that is a good thing. A church should progress with time and be updated. This is not to say that there needs to be core doctrinal changes. But life in 19th century is certainly not the same today. And the church has had to adjust. Also the church is world wide and not centered in Utah or in Nauvoo. They would be amazed with the number of temples and stakes. I also think that they would be amazed at general conference and the tone of the talks from the general authorties. They woud prefer more emotion from the speakers and more motivational tones. I think that both Joseph and Brigham gave emotional spirited talks.

[maj]

It would be interesting to see a "then and now" perspective.

I have feeling that they might be a little disappointed in the apathy that seems to be more prevalent in the modern LDS church.

Or maybe I'm just generalising too much...

[Scott Lloyd]

I don't get RS/PH manuals set up that way either...I mean I can read the manuals and am encouraged to do so before class so if all we do is read the quotes in class, why bother going? (I have to admit I don't often due to not being able to sit down for three hours...and I have a medical excuse for it too so gone are the days I felt guilty about it or had to have a baby around to pinch so she could squirm to give me a reason to get up and walk the halls ).

I think the idea is not just to read the quotes but to use them to spark discussion, insights, personal experiences, etc. I've seen (and conducted) some effective lessons that used this means.

[ZelphtheGreat]

I don't think so. This has been treated in a humorous fashion in an old Sunstone magazine article "Joseph Smith visits Redwood City First Ward". https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/088-54-57.pdf It is a fun read and raises some questions as well.

[cinepro]

I think the idea is not just to read the quotes but to use them to spark discussion, insights, personal experiences, etc. I've seen (and conducted) some effective lessons that used this means.

That's the problem. These manuals are prepared to be as bland as possible, so they're almost guaranteed to be 100% spark free.

And Lorenzo Snow spoke in really long paragraphs.

[Calm]

I think the idea is not just to read the quotes but to use them to spark discussion, insights, personal experiences, etc. I've seen (and conducted) some effective lessons that used this means.

I know that is the ideal and I try to come up with stuff to contribute when the teacher pauses long enough to allow discussion, but often there is so much to be quoted, she pushes to the next quote too fast to contribute anything of substance. I think they should make a point of it that if people are reading their manuals like they should, we could spend the entire class just discussing the implications of one quote because of its importance to us personally and as a community and everyone could still feel like the lesson material was covered sufficiently.

[canard78]

I know that is the ideal and I try to come up with stuff to contribute when the teacher pauses long enough to allow discussion, but often there is so much to be quoted, she pushes to the next quote too fast to contribute anything of substance. I think they should make a point of it that if people are reading their manuals like they should, we could spend the entire class just discussing the implications of one quote because of its importance to us personally and as a community and everyone could still feel like the lesson material was covered sufficiently.

It does bother me when teachers use questions between quotes as little more than punctuation.

> Quote read

> Teacher: So, what does that paragraph say we should do daily.

> A: Pray daily.

> Teacher: Goooood, right, who has quote number 5.

A little gem from Joseph Fielding Smith:

“We should spend our time and give diligent attention to the training of members of the Church. Teachers who are filled with the spirit of the Lord and who are tried and true, should be called to act in this capacity, and those who are not so tried and proved, should not be called to instruct the members. What do we accomplish if we spend our time and means preaching in the world to make converts to the gospel, if we place instructors before the youth in the stakes and wards who destroy the faith in the hearts of the young people in the divine message intrusted to our care?"

Joseph Fielding Smith

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/848219-we-should-spend-our-time-and-give-diligent-attention-to

(Actually, does anyone know where this is from? I'm reluctant to quote someone without an original source. Goodreads.com doesn't really count).

[changed]

... I try to come up with stuff to contribute ...

Sometimes I'm in the mood to contribute, other times I'm in the mood to just sit quietly and meditate. Class should not be a competition to show off who is the most intellectual or philosophical, or who has the most grusome war story - it's a big ward family, like getting together with your fam.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I think they should make a point of it that if people are reading their manuals like they should, we could spend the entire class just discussing the implications of one quote because of its importance to us personally and as a community and everyone could still feel like the lesson material was covered sufficiently.

Ask, and ye shall receive (from the manual itself):

Encourage participants to study the chapter before the lesson and to bring the book with them. When they do so, they will be better prepared to participate in a discussion and edify one another.

...

As you teach from this book, invite others to share their thoughts, ask questions, and teach one another. When they actively participate, they will be more prepared to learn and to receive personal revelation. Allow good discussions to continue rather than trying to cover all the teachings.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Lazy teachers who merely spend the class time reading out quotes instead of using the material and the scriptures to actually construct a lesson are no different to lazy bishopric members who merely assign ward members to regurgitate someone else's General Conference talk instead of giving them direction on how to construct an actual sermon from the scriptures and the words of the prophets.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Hamba Tuhan

[Scott Lloyd]

I know that is the ideal and I try to come up with stuff to contribute when the teacher pauses long enough to allow discussion, but often there is so much to be quoted, she pushes to the next quote too fast to contribute anything of substance. I think they should make a point of it that if people are reading their manuals like they should, we could spend the entire class just discussing the implications of one quote because of its importance to us personally and as a community and everyone could still feel like the lesson material was covered sufficiently.

When I was teaching the gospel doctrine class, I was instructed (by Church manuals as well as other sources) not to cut off a good discussion just for the sake of "getting through" the planned material. I was also told repeatedly that there was far more in the printed lesson material than could be covered in a single class period, so I was to be selective according to the needs of the class and the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

It has been nearly two years since I was released, but having attended general Sunday School auxiliary training as a news reporter, as far as I know, these things are still emphasized.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

That's the problem. These manuals are prepared to be as bland as possible, so they're almost guaranteed to be 100% spark free.

What some might conisder non-bland is what ought not occupy time in a Sabbath day Church setting. I'm talking about the conjectural, the sensational, the argumentative, the confusing, the inconclusive, the irrelevant to present time and setting.

If the non-bland is what motivates people to righteous living, well, I see plenty of content in the Teachings of Presidents of the Church series of manuals that has that potential.

And Lorenzo Snow spoke in really long paragraphs.

As one whose professional occupation involves condensing and paraphrasing, I have little sympathy for teachers and contributors to class discussions who are unwilling to do those things.

[Calm]

Ask, and ye shall receive (from the manual itself):

Oh I know. I've made a point as a teacher and librarian to always read the teaching resources so I know what should be going on...it gets frustrating when it doesn't happen, even with a good teacher because they've forgotten and become just a little too goal oriented.