cinepro Posted August 8, 2013 Posted August 8, 2013 I suspect a modern LDS meeting would first fill Joseph Smith with intense interest and curiosity, followed by a feeling of crushing boredom. 1
canard78 Posted August 8, 2013 Posted August 8, 2013 I suspect a modern LDS meeting would first fill Joseph Smith with intense interest and curiosity, followed by a feeling of crushing boredom.If he toured a few he might also wonder why so many wards have 3 talks that are little more than an edited reread of a conference talk from a few months ago. Why????
kassie Posted August 8, 2013 Posted August 8, 2013 If he toured a few he might also wonder why so many wards have 3 talks that are little more than an edited reread of a conference talk from a few months ago.Why????Maybe I am just lucky. We have inspirational speakers and talks at our ward services on Sunday. People keep talking about how "boring" it is to go to church! I find it stimulating and enjoyable. Even my teenagers sit and listen raptly to the talks, the testimonies, etc. Guess I am just very very fortunate but it occurs to me that if that many LDS are dissatisfied with what is going on in their ward they all need to get together and have a joint talk with the bishop. What is wrong with that? My husband is a bishop and he says he would "welcome anyone to come to him to discuss the meetings on Sunday!" 3
Garden Girl Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Just ask Garden Girl. She will back me up.Hmmm...Are you surrre?? Can hardly wait for Fall... football, hot chocolate, leaves turning, crisp evenings as I watch the Cougs...GG
EllenMaksoud Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I agree... Why wouldn't they recognize the Church today... I agree the core doctrines are still intact... we still adhere to the Articles of Faith that Joseph put forth to summarize our theology.We still have the same Plan of Salvation/Happiness... baptism... sacrament prayers/administering... same priesthood... same structure of prophets and apostles... same view of eternal marriage/families.... the Church has grown and matured, but the Church is very recognizable...GG Of course, I have relatively speaking almost no experience in the church. However, talking to women who are 20 years older than I am, they have some really interesting comments. One woman, who I think grew up in Utah, once commented to me that it used to be that if a man said to do something, she did it without discussion. Another woman, from Idaho, I think, today said that they used to be a lot more rule oriented. I have not seen much difference from Kirtland, to Indianapolis to Portland, however.
Calm Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 One woman, who I think grew up in Utah, once commented to me that it used to be that if a man said to do something, she did it without discussion. That's not the Church I've been in for 50 plus years...or the Church my mother was in, or the Church of my grandmothers.That woman may have been that way, but I know massive amounts of women who weren't. 1
Garden Girl Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Maybe I am just lucky. We have inspirational speakers and talks at our ward services on Sunday. People keep talking about how "boring" it is to go to church! I find it stimulating and enjoyable.I'm lucky too, kassie... it's the same in my ward. I never get the "bored" bit... on the few occasions when a speakr is not as prepared or not as dynamic, if I listen with ears to hear, I can always find some positive thought(s) to take to heart. GG
EllenMaksoud Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 That's not the Church I've been in for 50 plus years...or the Church my mother was in, or the Church of my grandmothers.That woman may have been that way, but I know massive amounts of women who weren't.This is most comforting to know. Before I joined, I actually feared that Mormon women were persecuted. I have seen no evidence of it.
volgadon Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 So he supports Arsenal then? YESSSS!!!As long as he isn't Tottenham. 1
EllenMaksoud Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I'm lucky too, kassie... it's the same in my ward. I never get the "bored" bit... on the few occasions when a speakr is not as prepared or not as dynamic, if I listen with ears to hear, I can always find some positive thought(s) to take to heart.GGI find our ward to be refreshing and safe feeling to me. The speakers are generally good, and the teachers are also. Now, I am going to say this and then hide. Some of the hymns in RS and childrens, just seem to be programming. However, I have to admit that those hymns teach good values, and faithful living.The Music we have is not like the "rock" feeling music of my old denomination.
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I'm lucky too, kassie... it's the same in my ward. I never get the "bored" bit.Same here. As the bishopric counsellor responsible for planning each sacrament meeting for the past 17 months, I've become even more grateful for the good brothers and sisters in my ward who accept the often-frightening call to preach most weeks and who prepare and perform with such goodwill and earnest effort. I've heard a few boring sacrament meeting sermons in my life, but it's become clear to me that usually they have been the result of a member merely speaking about a topic without anything personal to add from his/her own life. It really helps, therefore, that the active members of my ward seem predominantly to be anxiously engaged in gospel living and can speak from their hearts and their reservoirs of personal experience about the principles of the gospel. In order to give them chances to grow, I still assign talks to the few active members who are just going through the motions for the time being, but then I'm extra careful to make sure that the other speakers in the meeting will be the kind who can really compensate for the any weak, formulaic preaching that might result. 2
canard78 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 As long as he isn't Tottenham.As the "resident quasi-Jew" you should be a Tottenham loyalist. They play in white of course... The saintly colour. I guess that makes them the chosen ones two times over. COYS
canard78 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I'm glad to hear it. It's not a trend in mine either (general conf talks) but I've heard it is in others. It seems a pretty unimaginative way of giving out topics. I always used to enjoy creating a thematic 'arc' through the talks when I was in charge of them. 1
volgadon Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 As the "resident quasi-Jew" you should be a Tottenham loyalist.They play in white of course... The saintly colour. I guess that makes them the chosen ones two times over.COYSI was actually at a Jewish youth conference in Twocester of all places when there was a big match between the two teams. Tottenham lost and the single fan couldn't live it down... This way back at the turn of the Millenium.
Damien the Leper Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Hmmm...Are you surrre?? Can hardly wait for Fall... football, hot chocolate, leaves turning, crisp evenings as I watch the Cougs...GGYou're a Ute in the making.
cinepro Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 If he toured a few he might also wonder why so many wards have 3 talks that are little more than an edited reread of a conference talk from a few months ago.Why????Isn't that how they used to do it? I'm pretty sure there's a talk in the Journal of Discourses where Parley Pratt starts out:"I've been asked to speak today on Orson Hyde's General Conference talk from last October. Elder Hyde said..." 2
Garden Girl Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 You're a Ute in the making.No... No... Not that... Anything but that...GG
savedbygrace Posted August 9, 2013 Author Posted August 9, 2013 OK so the consensus seems to be, soccer and rugger aside, that Joseph would recognise the present church as his, changed, but his. I think so too, I think he would find its wealth and success very appealing, if he managed the incumbent president to move over, he would have all the earthly riches and power he could have ever dreamt of as its leader. He might even get himself crowned king of the kingdom, or run for president. And if he came back without Emma, no doubt would somehow get polygamy reinstated as it was so dear to his heart, and be able to practice it with impunity. Yes I think Joseph would be very pleased with all the earthly pleasures that becoming the head of the LDS church might bring, because his kingdom was very much of this earth, and has absolutely nothing to do with the Kindom of Heaven. So thank you all for your participation.
cdowis Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 If he toured a few he might also wonder why so many wards have 3 talks that are little more than an edited reread of a conference talk from a few months ago.Why????Often the speakers are assigned a conference talk, our HP group is assigned a conference talk for a priesthood lesson, my home teaching lessons often reflect something from General Conference.I am puzzed why you do not understand why this is done. It seems that you are missing something.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 So thank you all for your participation.Our participation seems to have prompted some harshness, if not anger, on your part.So I'm curious about what it is you were trying to accomplish with this thread. Laying a trap? Converting people away from Mormonism? Win more adherents to so-called "mainstream" Christianity?Do you think you were successful on any level?
savedbygrace Posted August 9, 2013 Author Posted August 9, 2013 Our participation seems to have prompted some harshness, if not anger, on your part.So I'm curious about what it is you were trying to accomplish with this thread. Laying a trap? Converting people away from Mormonism? Win more adherents to so-called "mainstream" Christianity?Do you think you were successful on any level?Sorry if I seem harsh or angry, I am neither. I asked a question that has often occurred to me and received what I believe is the answer. I doubt very much that I could convert anyone, that is a work of the Holy Spirit. I posted my reply as a way of saying what I think might be the case in this hyperthetical situation, in order to sort of finish the thread, as it was descending into a bit of derailed scrum
Scott Lloyd Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 And if he came back without Emma, no doubt would somehow get polygamy reinstated as it was so dear to his heart, and be able to practice it with impunity.If bigots had not murdered Joseph Smith, I fully believe he would have filled the role that Brigham Young eventually did fill in leading the Church west to the Great Basin.There, it would have thrived, more-or-less, just as it did under President Young. Joseph would have been 85 in 1890, the year the Manifesto was issued. He could conceivably have lived that long, had he not been murdered.Furthermore, I believe the practice of plural marriage was instituted under revelation of God and that the practice was likewise rescinded under revelation from God. Thus, if Joseph had lived to still be leading the Church at age 85, he likely would have received the revelation then to rescind the practice, just as Wilford Woodruff eventually did.So, if Joseph were here today leading the Church, he would be no more inclined to re-institute the practice of plural marriage than any of the prophets now living.
savedbygrace Posted August 9, 2013 Author Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) If bigots had not murdered Joseph Smith, I fully believe he would have filled the role that Brigham Young eventually did fill in leading the Church west to the Great Basin.There, it would have thrived, more-or-less, just as it did under President Young. Joseph would have been 85 in 1890, the year the Manifesto was issued. He could conceivably have lived that long, had he not been murdered.Furthermore, I believe the practice of plural marriage was instituted under revelation of God and that the practice was likewise rescinded under revelation from God. Thus, if Joseph had lived to still be leading the Church at age 85, he likely would have received the revelation then to rescind the practice, just as Wilford Woodruff eventually did.So, if Joseph were here today leading the Church, he would be no more inclined to re-institute the practice of plural marriage than any of the prophets now living.Do you think he would have put more of a fight to retain it as he was the one who received the original revelation? Do you think he would have questioned God as to why he was setting aside this higher form of marriage that was so important to exaltation. This is what I have trouble with, among other things. If as part of the restoration of all things, plural marriage was so central to it, why would Almighty God who had gone to the trouble of restoring everything, bow to politics and set his law aside. It doesn't make sense. By the way, don,t you think that Joseph's high handed destruction of a printing press because it was exposing polygamy was more than instrumental in his downfall, that there were bigots there is of no doubt, but his own actions caused outrage among people not just those who sought his downfall because it was an attack on free speech so dear to American hearts. Edited August 9, 2013 by savedbygrace
Calm Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 OK so the consensus seems to be, soccer and rugger aside, that Joseph would recognise the present church as his, changed, but his. I think so too, I think he would find its wealth and success very appealing, if he managed the incumbent president to move over, he would have all the earthly riches and power he could have ever dreamt of as its leader. He might even get himself crowned king of the kingdom, or run for president. And if he came back without Emma, no doubt would somehow get polygamy reinstated as it was so dear to his heart, and be able to practice it with impunity. Yes I think Joseph would be very pleased with all the earthly pleasures that becoming the head of the LDS church might bring, because his kingdom was very much of this earth, and has absolutely nothing to do with the Kindom of Heaven. So thank you all for your participation.Wow, your credibility with me just plummeted...I will now put you on ignore so as not to waste my time in the future.
Calm Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 why would Almighty God who had gone to the trouble of restoring everything, bow to politics and set his law aside.Why did Almighty God stop circumcision?
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