Raising The Bar-What Actually Changed?

[Duncan]

I guess 10 years maybe I dunno the Church raised the bar for missionary service. I am curious to know what actually changed. Anybody know?

[cinepro]

From the stories I've heard, the biggest changes have been the higher standards set for "social" skills and health problems, including depression, bipolar disorder, aspergers/autism, obesity and other physical conditions that lead to fatigue etc. Meaning that young men with social or physical disabilities that otherwise would have been allowed to serve in the past are now excused from service.

Also, it's my understanding that potential missionaries that have fornicated are not accepted for service. But I suspect our forum participating Bishops can give much more correct info on this.

Edited August 6, 2013 by cinepro

[Duncan]

From the stories I've heard, the biggest changes have been the higher standards set for "social" skills and health problems, including depression, bipolar disorder, aspergers/autism, obesity and other physical conditions that lead to fatigue etc. Meaning that young men with social or physical disabilities that otherwise would have been allowed to serve in the past are now excused from service.

Also, it's my understanding that potential missionaries that have fornicated are not accepted for service. But I suspect our forum participating Bishops can give much more correct info on this.

interesting, one reason I ask is because this mission in the last 18 months has sent home over 30 missionaries, I guess more missionaries more sent home but it's ridiculous. Our ward sent home 2 in 3 days. I just wonder why some would be allowed to serve. Like if they are sent home for medical reasons after only serving a month didn't they know about it a month ago, it wasn't like they got smacked falling tree or something. I just wonder what's different now that they raised the bar. Social skills well let me tell you....I dunno if I was any better but sometimes I wonder about that! haha!

[cinepro]

interesting, one reason I ask is because this mission in the last 18 months has sent home over 30 missionaries, I guess more missionaries more sent home but it's ridiculous. Our ward sent home 2 in 3 days. I just wonder why some would be allowed to serve. Like if they are sent home for medical reasons after only serving a month didn't they know about it a month ago, it wasn't like they got smacked falling tree or something. I just wonder what's different now that they raised the bar. Social skills well let me tell you....I dunno if I was any better but sometimes I wonder about that! haha!

Wow. That's a lot of missionaries. It would be interesting to know how many were 18 years old and part of the new wave of younger missionaries.

Having missionaries go home early, apart from the spiritual aspect of it, has to be a huge pain logistically and a big hit to the efficiency of the work. There's nothing worse than investing time and effort into training someone and then have their tenure cut short.

[Garden Girl]

I was thinking the change would be before they ever left home, i.e., how strong a testimony they have and how committed they are to serving. Then the other aspects Cinepro mentioned...

GG

[Duncan]

Wow. That's a lot of missionaries. It would be interesting to know how many were 18 years old and part of the new wave of younger missionaries.

Having missionaries go home early, apart from the spiritual aspect of it, has to be a huge pain logistically and a big hit to the efficiency of the work. There's nothing worse than investing time and effort into training someone and then have their tenure cut short.

it's just beyond crazy. I read this on a missionary friend's of mine blog he keeps for people,

"While on exchanges I went to go stay with some other elders because one of the elders was struggling with a lot of different things going on. As I sat down with him I just asked him some questions and he told me that he doesn't know if any of this is true and said that he wants to believe it but he has never felt the spirit ever in his life. I listened to him and asked some more questions and then taught him. But yet he was still struggling with all of his questions and he just wanted to give up and go home. So I testified of The Book of Mormon and said "I know this gospel is true so lets pray about it elder." So we all prayed and I said a prayer. I was shaking in my boots like crazy I was praying so hard to myself just hoping that he would receive an answer. I was scared to be honest. Then he prayed and asked god if he was just there for him and to feel his hand in his life, and I told him to just wait and listen to your feelings. We waited for 10 minuets just silent. He was crying, the spirit was so strong in there and then he looked up and said " I don't know what to think" I thought to myself oh no.....but then he goes on to say that all of his life he has always had these different things going on in his mind and he has just never been able to get rid of them and that it has always given him trouble and has scared him, and then he said when I was done praying everything just left and he felt so much peace enter into his mind and has never had that before, but didn't know if that was the spirit. I testified that it was and then we all rejoiced with one another just like in D&C 50:22

" 22 Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together."

I dunno, I mean where is the bar in his case and I hope it works out for this young man and all but shouldn't all fo that have already happened? That was posted July 22, 2013. But the brethren must know that many are going home and where is this bar here? it's been tough on our ward. 6 weeks ago we started off with 7 missionaries and we are down to 3. 2 Elders and 1 sister who didn't have a companion for 3 weeks and let me tell you it's been a struggle to find her people to go with and the work suffers. 2 went home and 2 got transferred to fill other spots left by missionaries who went home

[rongo]

This is a sore point with me. For all of the talk about "raising the bar" years ago (starting with the Elder Ballard talk), the quality of missionaries (socially, spiritually, work ethic-wise, you name it) has deteriorated. It's societal at large (I'm a teacher, and this is not just a Mormon phenomenon), but the thought that there is a "higher bar" for missionaries now is a joke. Cf. Duncan's anecdotes from within our era where ostensibly "higher standards for 'social' skills and health problems, including depression, bipolar disorder, aspergers/autism, obesity and other physical conditions that lead to fatigue etc." reign (to quote cinepro). Anyone with eyes can see that. My observation of this pre-dates the advent of 18 year old elders ---- I don't think that's a factor at all. I see these new moves (twitter/facebook activity during missions, "church tours," khakis and sweaters allowed, tracting disparaged by the Brethren, etc.) as tacit acknowledgement that the perception is that the bar will need to be lowered even more to keep them out in the field. I lump Preach My Gospel and the new youth curriculum in this as well ---- ostensibly a higher bar, but in reality and in practice dreadful and dismal. The real reason is that our youth are increasingly illiterate and incapable of memorizing, doing actual scripture scholarship on their own, and learning and teaching "traditionally."

[brotheroflogan]

rongo,

You are quite the optimist.

All,

The missionaries I've met recently have been pretty good quality. I went on a mission 12 years ago and I don't see much difference from my limited perspective. I do think that our youth are bombarded with so much worldly dogma that they have a hard time believing church dogma. Or distinguishing between the two.

Work ethic is an issue as well. I honestly wish more of us were farmers. (myself included. I could use a better work ethic).

[rongo]

rongo,

You are quite the optimist.

No, just sad at what we've become and where we're headed.

[Duncan]

This is a sore point with me. For all of the talk about "raising the bar" years ago (starting with the Elder Ballard talk), the quality of missionaries (socially, spiritually, work ethic-wise, you name it) has deteriorated. It's societal at large (I'm a teacher, and this is not just a Mormon phenomenon), but the thought that there is a "higher bar" for missionaries now is a joke. Cf. Duncan's anecdotes from within our era where ostensibly "higher standards for 'social' skills and health problems, including depression, bipolar disorder, aspergers/autism, obesity and other physical conditions that lead to fatigue etc." reign (to quote cinepro). Anyone with eyes can see that. My observation of this pre-dates the advent of 18 year old elders ---- I don't think that's a factor at all. I see these new moves (twitter/facebook activity during missions, "church tours," khakis and sweaters allowed, tracting disparaged by the Brethren, etc.) as tacit acknowledgement that the perception is that the bar will need to be lowered even more to keep them out in the field. I lump Preach My Gospel and the new youth curriculum in this as well ---- ostensibly a higher bar, but in reality and in practice dreadful and dismal. The real reason is that our youth are increasingly illiterate and incapable of memorizing, doing actual scripture scholarship on their own, and learning and teaching "traditionally."

I agree, agree, agree!!!!!!

I just think of where all these people who are going home what will happen to them in the future and I hope they stay active!

Edited August 6, 2013 by Duncan

[Kenngo1969]

I guess my area just "lucked out" where missionaries are concerned, because both those who've gone out from my Ward and those who are serving here are, by all accounts, very, very high-quality human beings. (It's true that I'm "on the outside looking in," and perhaps their day-to-day lives are much different that I realize, but, that's my perception, anyway ...) It's also true that Preach My Gospel is designed for missionaries who are adept at perceiving and following the Spirit, so perhaps we need to do a better job teaching our prospective missionaries how to do that, but personally, I think PMG is a huge upgrade over "The Restored Gospel in a Can" . My $0.02, which is actually worth $0.01752550 ...

[Duncan]

Just so everyone is clear, I am not and know one is is judging anyone sent home, so if you have or had a son or daughter or relative sent home no one is judging or thinking badly!!!

[CV75]

I guess 10 years maybe I dunno the Church raised the bar for missionary service. I am curious to know what actually changed. Anybody know?

I don't know, but I beleive that in order to remain faithful and execute one's missioanry's duty, he has to be more willing and able today than he might have had to have been say, 20 or more years ago. Not only is the world more wicked, but where much is given, much is expected. I find this true for myself: even though I have grown much in the Gospel, and seem to be able to handle myself better in today's world than yesterday's, the opposition has kept pace, so I can't get too confident.

[strappinglad]

The video game world has bred a generation of " can't and won't do much that requires any serious physical effort " . If the missionary has been heavily involved in organized sports , there is a better chance of a strong work ethic.

[rockpond]

I was a YM leader at the time (about a decade ago) when they rolled out the "raising the bar" concept. It was a big deal for us as YM leaders. The emphasis that I was given was along these lines: missionaries need to have a strong testimony BEFORE being called (no more gaining testimonies in the MTC or out in the field) and that there would be stricter rules regarding immorality (key among those rules was that a sexual relationship -- repeated sexual experiences with a girlfriend, for example -- would automatically disqualify you).

[Hamba Tuhan]

I was in America a couple of years ago, and the ward I attended had a couple in it who had spent nearly a week at some retreat with members of the General Young Men Presidency and couple of apostles. They were asked to report on that training during sacrament meeting. According to the wife, Church leaders had said that the missionary force is the 'cleanest' it has ever been. Good news. The bad news: these same leaders then said the missionary force is simultaneously the weakest it has ever been. Their explanation: too many of our missionaries have lived so passively that, though they believe things to be true, they have too few of their own experiences to actually know for themselves that they are. The new Duty to God program was designed specifically to address this issue, according to the husband. It was necessary, he quoted one of the leaders as saying, that we start sending our youth into the field with a 'quiverful of personal experiences', both to sustain themselves and to have something to actually share with non-members.

In our ward, our Aaronic Priesthood quorum presidents begin each Sunday meeting with a request for quorum members to share what they've actually experienced during the week in relation to the gospel: I've done X, and this was the outcome. As I repeatedly tell the teachers quorum, which I attend, if one hasn't actually experienced some aspect of the gospel working in his life during the previous seven days, he's clearly doing something wrong -- often meaning doing almost nothing at all except sitting passively in front of screens of various sizes.

[rongo]

It's also true that Preach My Gospel is designed for missionaries who are adept at perceiving and following the Spirit,

I reject the notion that the "discussions" were not "designed for missionaries who are adept at perceiving and following the Spirit." Do you go out with the missionaries much? The quality of teaching under Preach My Gospel is poor, across the board, in my experience, which is pretty extensive. Doesn't matter if it's "regular" missionaries or "leader missionaries."

I think PMG is a huge upgrade over "The Restored Gospel in a Can" ™.

On paper and in theory it seems like it should be. It's in practice that's the problem. Ditto with the new youth curriculum.

[rongo]

I was a YM leader at the time (about a decade ago) when they rolled out the "raising the bar" concept. It was a big deal for us as YM leaders. The emphasis that I was given was along these lines: missionaries need to have a strong testimony BEFORE being called (no more gaining testimonies in the MTC or out in the field) and that there would be stricter rules regarding immorality (key among those rules was that a sexual relationship -- repeated sexual experiences with a girlfriend, for example -- would automatically disqualify you).

The rhetoric about a "raised bar" (which actually was, at best, a return to an old bar after slippage, not a "raising") and "the days of the repent and go missionary are over" sounded good, but that hasn't been my experience. I know from experience, too, that stake presidents get reamed on both ends by delegated Brethren. They are criticized for poor missionary quality from their stakes, but are also pressured if/when their quotas of missionaries get too low. So, if they do try to raise the bar and exclude poorly-prepared missionaries until they are better, they take heat in coordinating councils, etc. "Repent and go" is very much still around.

Edited August 7, 2013 by rongo

[strappinglad]

We might do well to remember the OT story about the Lord reducing the number of the army of Israel substantially from thousands down to a couple hundred soldiers who then went to defeat the enemy with its vast army.

[strappinglad]

Judges ch 6-8.

Edited August 7, 2013 by strappinglad

[Crazy]

"The rhetoric about a "raised bar" (which actually was, at best, a return to an old bar after slippage, not a "raising") and "the days of the repent and go missionary are over" sounded good, but that hasn't been my experience."

To what slippage of standards are you refering? When were the standards (morally and physically) higher prior to the 'raising of the bar'?

I can definitely empathize with complaints against some of the young men and women that have been called to serve since the 'raising' having dealt extensively with a few of the less precious gems during my own mission experience. However PMG and teaching from the heart are exponentially better than rote presentation. The problem is young people are signing up for missions because they want to please someone other than the Lord. Mormon culture demands a man go on a mission. Instead of carefully preparing, studying and honing interpersonal skills these kids mope about with cords latched to their ears and eyes glued to a screen. The new Youth curriculum is supposed to help with that, I hope it will. Boiled all down I bet a lot of priesthood leaders send off unprepared kids not for a quota but because of the huge potential for growth and oppurtunity for good. If a couple kids don't have what it takes well, what was the phrase? 'The church is true because if it wasn't the missionaries would have ruined it years ago' Something like that.

I agree with brotheroflogan we should all be farmers. I think Jefferson said something like that too or maybe Madeline Albriet.

[Hamba Tuhan]

However PMG and teaching from the heart are exponentially better than rote presentation.

I served pre-PMG, and we were expressly trained in the MTC not to give 'rote presentations'. Instead, we were to teach the basic points by personalising the message and teaching from the heart.

The problem is young people are signing up for missions because they want to please someone other than the Lord. Mormon culture demands a man go on a mission.

Not here. Our ward sent its first young man on a mission last year. He's been followed so far by one other, and thankfully there appear to be more to come, but we're fighting a huge battle to try to establish something like a culture of serving.

[Duncan]

I served pre-PMG, and we were expressly trained in the MTC not to give 'rote presentations'. Instead, we were to teach the basic points by personalising the message and teaching from the heart.

Not here. Our ward sent its first young man on a mission last year. He's been followed so far by one other, and thankfully there appear to be more to come, but we're fighting a huge battle to try to establish something like a culture of serving.

tell the YM that we LOVE having them over the pond and they sooooo needed! please come and stay!

Edited August 7, 2013 by Duncan

[BCSpace]

Also, it's my understanding that potential missionaries that have fornicated are not accepted for service. But I suspect our forum participating Bishops can give much more correct info on this.

Such can possibly go if they repent. It must be more than refraining from sin and confession. There must also be a broken heart and a contrite spirit. The time to wait cannot be less than one year and can be much more. However, if the candidate has been promiscuous with more than one partner or over an extended period of time, they will usually not be considered for missionary service. If the local leadership believes an exception should be made, the case may be submitted to the First Presidency for consideration.

Any homosexual activity at all is pretty much a no go although a case may also be submitted to the FP.

[Hamba Tuhan]

tell the YM that we LOVE having them over the pond and they sooooo needed! please come and stay!

More than 10,000 km is a bit more than a 'pond' for us, but one of our YM is actually in Canada right now, in northern Alberta. He prayed that he could serve somewhere cold, and the Lord seems to have indulged him. Interestingly, the last report I heard from his mum was that he wants to go back to Canada post-mission and maybe stay, so there you go.