Two Very Important Presentations At Fair Conference--Maxine Hanks And Faith And Doubt Panel

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Over on an alternate message board, one that a certain grandson of a late prophet frequents, he had a bit to say about Maxine Hanks being rebaptized. He said a few things that even the members of that message board became upset about and they even said he was full of anger and resentment. Interesting thread before it was shut down.

I think it's awesome that Sister Hanks was rebaptized. People need to find happiness and joy in this life and it sometimes takes them through path which I have no desire to go down, but I have been down a couple of those undesirable paths.

I am overthrilled that Bradley came back.

One thing though, when the Sept 6 happened, I was angry with those people. I wanted them hurt...I wanted them hurt bad, but with the intervening years, losing all my dark hair until it's all grey, and going through another divorce and losing some precious friends to death, I realized that I didn't need to forgive the Sept 6, i needed to forgive myself and learn not to judge others whether they are righteous, evil, or just plain confused like many of us are and just doing the best they can with what they have.

Ironically, at the FAIR Conference, she mentioned him specifically and kindly, spoke of him as her friend.

I was curious, so I went and found the threads in question. I'd say that urroner profoundly misread what was happening. Steve was defending his friend Maxine and others were calling Steve Benson a hypocrite (since he normally derides and denigrates those associated with the church). Steve's first comment on the issue appears to be this:

These attackers don't personally know Maxine Hanks. I do and have for years

During that time, we have talked for countless hours, both face-to-face and over the phone.

She has her reasons for having left the Mormon Church and for having rejoined it. She has spoken publicly about some of those reasons, but not about all of them. The speculations expressed here per her re-baptism are largely uninformed and inaccurate. I would not hesitate about getting into the details, except for the fact that she has explicitly asked me not to because it only leads to grievous personal attacks against her that wound her deeply. She reads this board and has been profoundly hurt by the untrue claims made at her expense.

I have a great deal of respect and admiration for Maxine, although she and I have clear and significant differences of opinion on some fundamental matters. Nonetheless, she is a very good friend of mine. I know how she thinks and the reasons behind her actions. In my view, based on my years of being friends and interacting with Maxine, it is safe to say, judging from much of the commentary in this thread, that plenty of people sinply don't get it.

'Nuff said.

Not defending Steve per se, but hate to see falsehoods (likely inadvertent) perpetuated.

[Scott Lloyd]

I was curious, so I went and found the threads in question. I'd say that urroner profoundly misread what was happening. Steve was defending his friend Maxine and others were calling Steve Benson a hypocrite (since he normally derides and denigrates those associated with the church). Steve's first comment on the issue appears to be this:

Not defending Steve per se, but hate to see falsehoods (likely inadvertent) perpetuated.

Thanks for that clarification.

[Calm]

Not defending Steve per se, but hate to see falsehoods (likely inadvertent) perpetuated.

Much happier to see this than I was to see urroner's comment. Glad to know he misread it.

(likely inadvertent)

Knowing urroner, I would say most definitely.

[USU78]

Thanks for that clarification.

Me, too. My estimation of him just went up a whole lot.

[urroner]

I was curious, so I went and found the threads in question. I'd say that urroner profoundly misread what was happening. Steve was defending his friend Maxine and others were calling Steve Benson a hypocrite (since he normally derides and denigrates those associated with the church). Steve's first comment on the issue appears to be this:

Not defending Steve per se, but hate to see falsehoods (likely inadvertent) perpetuated.

I didn't say that Steve had said anything against Maxine, rather, I just found it rather ironic that people were getting after him. I hardly ever frequent that board, it's been over two years since I went there.

[Calm]

I didn't say that Steve had said anything against Maxine, rather, I just found it rather ironic that people were getting after him. I hardly ever frequent that board, it's been over two years since I went there.

I misunderstood though as well so I am glad that his actual words were posted. I assumed they were saying he was ticked off because of what he said rather than what he didn't say, lol.

That is interesting if they said this about him when he was posting stuff like SU put up above...a lot of mindreading going on:

they even said he was full of anger and resentment

I tried to read it for several months just to become familiar with the various points of view better, but there was too much negativity for my comfort level so had to give it up though it was quite interesting seeing the dynamics (there was usually a lot of emotional support available, I can see the appeal for those who don't feel they are getting it from others) and there were some thoughtful posters that I found interesting to read...but overall not so much.

Edited August 13, 2013 by calmoriah

[urroner]

What did the Sept 6 group ever do to you? Why the anger towards them? Feminism bothers you? Questioners?

First off, my ignorance was a huge part of the ignorance. I perceived them as attacking the Church and, that to me, means attacking family. Age has taught me since then, 20 years teaches a lot, or, at least it should, to anybody. It should teach somebody to be more patient and to also look more carefully at not only what people are doing, but also why they do it. Also, I was in the middle of a severe depression and my first wife has just left me. I was probably just looking for people to be angry with that wouldn't care if I was angry with them and my anger wouldn't affect them in the slightest.

Feminism had nothing to do with it.

[Tacenda]

First off, my ignorance was a huge part of the ignorance. I perceived them as attacking the Church and, that to me, means attacking family. Age has taught me since then, 20 years teaches a lot, or, at least it should, to anybody. It should teach somebody to be more patient and to also look more carefully at not only what people are doing, but also why they do it. Also, I was in the middle of a severe depression and my first wife has just left me. I was probably just looking for people to be angry with that wouldn't care if I was angry with them and my anger wouldn't affect them in the slightest.

Feminism had nothing to do with it.

Have you read their stories? Added: I'm sorry you're suffering so. Edited August 13, 2013 by Tacenda

[urroner]

Have you read their stories? Added: I'm sorry you're suffering so.

Living in Florida usually means not getting that much information on them and it wasn't important to people here in Florida, even the active members of the Church. It still isn't. If they were asked today or even 20 years about about the Sept. 6, they would have no idea what they were being asked about.

I have done some reading up on Quinn, Gileadi (I have several of his books.), and Maxine. I read it with a certain bias 20 years ago and when I read about them just recently, I still read it with a biased eye, but one more understanding and less judgemental, at least I hope I did. Time might heal all wounds, but it's sure hell on the face.

[why me]

Trust me, they did.

She is usually pretty good to us from what I understand and her reputation reporting LDS is pretty good, that was what was so surprising there was no interest in the conference at all, no reporter even sent...I would have thought at least the women's panel merited that considering all the media stuff going on this past year plus the whole Mattsson thing about faith and doubt...a number of the presentations dealt with that issue and would have tied in nicely.

I think that the SLT may have a policy change about reporting on 'promormon' events. It seems that peggy is not shy to criticize the lds church over policy issues and she is quick to pick up on any fringe organization that is critical of the lds church. I don't think that she is in the business of faith creation within Mormonism but she is certainly in the business for doubt creation.

[why me]

Not defending Steve per se, but hate to see falsehoods (likely inadvertent) perpetuated.

I think that it would be difficult to attack Maxine in public and not challenge anyone who is since they do go back a ways. More likely steve is personally disappointed with the decision that Maxine made. It certainly was not good for the exmormons. At the moment they are in a semi crisis mode over her. Some will attack but her friends who use their own screen name will probably defend her. But they are disappointed in her. She put a wrench in their propaganda against the church.

[Maestrophil]

I know that this is a few years old - but I just worked with Clifton Jolley and apparently - somehow he considers himself both a LDS and a Jew...

[Scott Lloyd]

THREAD NECROMANCY ALERT!

[Calm]

At least this time is was admitted to up front.  

 

Maestro, do you mean Jew by ethnicity or by faith? 

 

add-on:  never mind, reading the old thread answered that question

Edited May 23, 2015 by calmoriah

[Ham Clam]

I know that this is a few years old - but I just worked with Clifton Jolley and apparently - somehow he considers himself both a LDS and a Jew...

Well, he certainly cannot call himself a Gentile.

He probably still considers himself a "cultural Mormon."

[Ham Clam]

He did a Sunstone presentation about his conversation to Judaism.

[Calm]

Thanks, Ham Clam

[Avatar4321]

I know plenty of people who went to church while sinning so I don't think that the first impulse for most people when one wants to sin is going to be 'oh, I must leave the Church so I can sin without guilt'...plenty of people seem to manage just fine, sad to say.

Everyone I've ever met at church goes while sinning.

[Calm]

I know I do.

[Tacenda]

I know I do.

You sin? nah.

[williamsmith]

So, Maxine still holds the same views as always that are contrary to the Church, she's simply realized that she must be kinder, more diplomatic, tolerant of others, etc. to change the Church from within, because the church after all is still flawed according to her, so if she want's things to be her way, she needs to be like progressives have done in politics, take over and be part of the system, then it starts to become like you want it to be.

 

I don't see this as "positive".  I find this even more sinister frankly.

 

BTW, each of the above observations come from things she directly said, I'm not poo poo'ing her.

She essentially stated she's the same, just all sweet and light we are the world now, instead of taking a "negative" approach.

 

Hanks is a member in good standing. Be respectful.

[Calm]

It has been awhile since I listened, but I don't think you understood her at all.

 

CFR this is what she means.

 

add-on:  I am looking to see what happened to the transcription...come August I think, the video will be available for free, but it can be had as an mp3 right now for $3 (it is how we pay for having them available at all, it would be nice to be able to offer them for free from the get go), but the transcripts are always free...just don't know what happened with this one...we need more transcriptors, a special skill set, I can't do it:

 

http://bookstore.fairlds.org/product.php?id_product=1513

Edited May 23, 2015 by calmoriah

[Maestrophil]

Jolley implied to me that he was an active Jew and a non-excommunicated Mormon of record who's bishop was "OK" with his conversion to Judaism.