bluebell Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Found out today that the Bismarck ND temple has it. Our summer cleaning happened in may though, if I remember correctly. 1
canard78 Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 I know it's hard to believe someone would actually film what we consider to be sacred and then ridicule it by putting it online somehow... but, I do know of someone who has "issues" who stated he'd like to do just that... as far as how they do it, you'd be surprised at the sophisticated devices... like glasses with a tiny camera built into the frames, etc... they don't need cell phones, etc. or some device that would be obvious to the workers or patrons sitting nearby.Yep, $60 on Amazon:http://www.amazon.com/Fashion-Black-Glasses-Hidden-camera/dp/B009GEOEF8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375666406&sr=8-2&keywords=camera+glasses
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Do you still have to pay 10% to see the movie?I wonder sometimes how those who think that 10% is too steep a price to access the Lord's House are going to respond when they realise that admission to watch the reality behind the temple's symbolic presentations is at least ten times greater. 2
Calm Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) . And last but not least, and this bothers me more than I want to think about, where is the spiritual discernment on the part of the temple workers. My parents have been ordinance workers most of their elderly years. My dad says he cannot imagine that someone, somewhere hasn't caught this travesty in action. Bizarre.I like the idea that the workers in the temple so love it, it is beyond their imagination that someone would do something like that. I feel that way about children, I can't imagine what kind of person could desire to harm one....and yet it happens and even harder to bear at times, the Lord allows it when it does happen.Resolving the issue of suffering intentionally caused in the world would be the most likely thing that would cause me to doubt the existence of God, but it is also one of the things that God has provided me a lot of comfort about.Add-on: realize I have taken this off topic, but this talk speaks directly to my off topic comment so....:https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2009/04/adversity?lang=eng Edited August 5, 2013 by calmoriah
Tacenda Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Tell your husband my response is: No, I get to. thanks and have a nice trip to missouri With luv,BDWe will, thanks BD.
ERMD Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) I wonder sometimes how those who think that 10% is too steep a price to access the Lord's House are going to respond when they realise that admission to watch the reality behind the temple's symbolic presentations is at least ten times greater.Indeed.The price is everything, which is exactly what the Lord paid for me. Even so, I am still an unprofitable servant. Edited August 5, 2013 by ERMD 4
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 The price is everything, which is exactly what the Lord paid for me. Even so, I am still an unprofitable servant.In many ways the 10% is itself a symbol of the 100%, and we have to learn to see the reality behind this symbol just as we do with all other symbols. 1
kassie Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 The guy has sadly filmed in at least two temples. One live and one with the video. I think he has something more sophisticated than a smartphone. I think it's buttonhole/glasses frame technology.Pretty pathetic people resort to "spyware" to film a religious ceremony they don't belong to and shouldn't care about. I'm just so relieved he quit filming before the sacrificial virgin offering on the altar. 1
kassie Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 I wonder sometimes how those who think that 10% is too steep a price to access the Lord's House are going to respond when they realise that admission to watch the reality behind the temple's symbolic presentations is at least ten times greater.Very well said.
kassie Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Kassie...You probably have no idea just how important it was that you responded to these young men as you did... well, one did express what it meant to him... bless you for your words of wisdom so needed at that very time. I pray always for the mishes that they won't become discouraged... they really are "in the lion's den" as far as being out there in the world, trying to spread the gospel.I know it's hard to believe someone would actually film what we consider to be sacred and then ridicule it by putting it online somehow... but, I do know of someone who has "issues" who stated he'd like to do just that... as far as how they do it, you'd be surprised at the sophisticated devices... like glasses with a tiny camera built into the frames, etc... they don't need cell phones, etc. or some device that would be obvious to the workers or patrons sitting nearby.I served as an ordinance worker for six years, every week (loved it). In our prayer meeting before each shift, we would receive instructions on how to handle any circumstance that might arise (including watching for recording devices), always with the intent of helping to make the temple experience for our patrons as comfortable, wonderful and spiritual as we could so that no one would feel embarrassed or uncomfortable. We were always on the alert for anything inappropriate... how sad really...GGOh I'm sure you were on the alert and I'm just too technology challenged to have thought about anything other than a cellphone! I keep going back to why they are even interested in what we do in the temple? It would be like me sneaking into the Mosque where my Muslim students attend and filming their rituals. Then putting it on youtube. Or whatever. I just don't get the fascination. And if someone has "issues" with what they saw in the Temple then how is filming what happens going to resolve those issues? Go back as many times as you need to. Get rid of your issues or make the decision you are done with it and move on with your life. Perhaps it is too simple for me. Maybe I'm missing something.
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Maybe I'm missing something.Contempt and hatred mixed with a smug sense of intellectual and moral superiority and generously sprinkled with a lack of ethics. It's difficult for people devoid of this particular brew to understand the drive to profane and mock what others hold most sacred. I sincerely hope you never understand. 2
kassie Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Contempt and hatred mixed with a smug sense of intellectual and moral superiority and generously sprinkled with a lack of ethics. It's difficult for people devoid of this particular brew to understand the drive to profane and mock what others hold most sacred. I sincerely hope you never understand.I hope I never do either! I have a lot of faults just like everyone else. But I guess I fortunately lack many of the ones you listed. Very humbling.
Nathair/|\ Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 I agree... in fact, something I've mentioned here on the Board... when there is someone that I know who is taking temple prep and going to the temple for their own endowment, many times I will refer them to John A. Tvedtnes' paper "Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices." I think this paper should be reviewed as part of temple prep (available from FAIRlds.org). It's one of my favorites... I found many ah-ha moments in his research... and his 5 pages of citations and sources is very helpful for follow-up study.His paper covers information on: Initiation, The Handclasp, Secret Words, Prayer Circle, Passing the Angels, Admitted into God's Presence, and Final Notes.In his opening the tells that to date (1999) he had found fifteen early Christian documents that speak of baptism for the dead, along with several Mandaean and Jewish texts. He planned to include this information in an article "Baptism for the Dead in Early Christianity," scheduled for publication later that year in a FARMS temples volume.I've also told several times how I appreciate reading Nibley's "Temples and Cosmos," particularly in regard to the prayer circle... These two items by Tvedtnes and Nibley have increased my appreciation and understanding of the endowment more than just what I received in my temple prep class... by far.The beauty about this is that these two things are not talking about our current temple content per se, but reporting research into sources relating to early Christian and/or ancient practice.GGMay I add to your most excellent list Elder Packer's The Holy Temple (the full 270 page book, not the pamphlet)? 1
Calm Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 May I add to your most excellent list Elder Packer's The Holy Temple (the full 270 page book, not the pamphlet)?You've been on vacation? Good to see you back.
Duncan Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 Elder Merrill J. Bateman once gave me a list of books to study about the Temple and if someone asks nicely i'll see if I can find it!
Nathair/|\ Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 You've been on vacation? Good to see you back.I've been working for the city Parks department and haven't had much time.
Traela Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) Elder Merrill J. Bateman once gave me a list of books to study about the Temple and if someone asks nicely i'll see if I can find it!Pretty please? Edited August 6, 2013 by Traela
KoZ Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 The temple ceremony is symbolic. It's not supposed to be an accurate depiction of actual historical events.Might I ask, who says it cannot be both?
canard78 Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 Well, for one thing there is the time factor.How do you mean?
Calm Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 Even if one takes creation to happen in 7 days (we won't even consider that most of it involves what happened after creation for a time period we have no clue about), considering the endowment presentation not only lasts less than a day, but much less than a day, there is no way it can be an accurate depiction of historical events. Something would have to be left out....and if one assumes that creation lasted much, much longer, the less historically accurate it can be.
canard78 Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 Even if one takes creation to happen in 7 days (we won't even consider that most of it involves what happened after creation for a time period we have no clue about), considering the endowment presentation not only lasts less than a day, but much less than a day, there is no way it can be an accurate depiction of historical events. Something would have to be left out....and if one assumes that creation lasted much, much longer, the less historically accurate it can be.Are you saying that events depicted in the endowment drama only last a day or that we're only in there for a couple of hours so only a summary of the original events were covered?Some of the events depicted (people with physical bodies who've not been born yet) seem a bit of a stretch to be actual history. We're watching a play - not a documentary.
KoZ Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 But there are certain parts that I still only feel like am catching half glimpses of. I would love to find resources that would allow me to make personal study of some of the very specific, but covenanted to keep secret, symbols.Generally people want what is familiar. They want what they want, the way they want it. Like it must be from the Prophet (Church President) who authors that resource and even then it must be referenced to an old document that was found hidden in a vault for centuries by another Prophet who is long since dead. And those truths revealed must never contradict what is now politically correct or it must surely be a false revelation and just his opinion!
canard78 Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 Generally people want what is familiar. They want what they want, the way they want it. Like it must be from the Prophet (Church President) who authors that resource and even then it must be referenced to an old document that was found hidden in a vault for centuries by another Prophet who is long since dead. And those truths revealed must never contradict what is now politically correct or it must surely be a false revelation and just his opinion! Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure how this relates to me wanting to study up on the symbols in the endowment (which is what you quoted). Sorry if I'm missing the point or being a bit dense.
Recommended Posts