Mormon Women And A Challenge To Lds Modesty Norms

[Kenngo1969]

Yeah some things just shouldn't ever see the light of day -- an offense against humanity.

[kassie]

Well this was certainly interesting. I am not a prude by any means but I do believe modesty is important. I don't really understand how putting nude pictures of themselves on the Internet is "reclaiming their bodies." I'm wondering how their husbands, brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, children etc. feel when they see these.....hmmm....not for me to judge. Perhaps they support this.

When my oldest daughter was a teenager she went through a phase of wanting to wear very short shorts that were popular with many of her friends at the time. She wanted to wear tank tops. She wanted to wear spaghetti straps. She wanted to rebel a bit. She was a good kid.

I sat down with her and tried to understand where she was coming from. Was this simply trying to be a conformist to her friend's likes/dislikes? How did she feel about her body being a temple? Did she hope to marry in the temple someday? We had a good discussion but I didn't feel I had gotten very far. Then her dad stepped in.

He said, "You know if I had a very precious diamond that I knew others might covet or steal I don't think I would display it on a pedestal for all who walked by to see. You are our precious diamond. You will be your husband's precious diamond someday. You are Heavenly Father's precious diamond."

She didn't seem to "get it" right away and certainly didn't smack her forehead and say "Oh gee, you are so right and I was so wrong!" and in fact rolled her eyes at us, but we noticed she started dressing modestly again with no prompting from us. Such is the nudging of the Holy Ghost.

[kassie]

If they have received their endowment, I'm pretty sure this counts as breaking their temple covenants.

I would tend to agree with you. And even if they haven't received their endowments it sure isn't a great way to prepare to do so.

[Stone holm]

I would tend to agree with you. And even if they haven't received their endowments it sure isn't a great way to prepare to do so.

Agree.

[kassie]

Agree.

And why does it just have to be about breaking "temple covenants." No, I don't remember taking a specific covenant that said "You will not put naked pictures of yourself on the internet." HELLO..... It shouldn't be necessary to name all the things you CAN'T do because you have made covenants in the temple. It should be about "Would Heavenly Father really approve of me doing this? If He were here now and I said "Hey, Heavenly Father, what would you think about this?" what would He say. Hmmmmm. Doesn't take a rocket scientist.

[Calm]

And why does it just have to be about breaking "temple covenants." No, I don't remember taking a specific covenant that said "You will not put naked pictures of yourself on the internet." HELLO..... It shouldn't be necessary to name all the things you CAN'T do because you have made covenants in the temple. It should be about "Would Heavenly Father really approve of me doing this? If He were here now and I said "Hey, Heavenly Father, what would you think about this?" what would He say. Hmmmmm. Doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist.

More like an art critic.

[kassie]

More like an art critic.

And I hate to tell you, but I am NOt an art critic! I love art. I love sculpture. I love beauty in all forms. This website, (which I perused "Mormons Go Bare" or whatever it is called) and then tonight when my husband came home (he is a Bishop) and I told him about it and he just looked at me like I had lost my mind! "Where did you hear about such a thing?" he said! So I told him about this forum and the framework in which it was presented. And I said "I would like your opinion on this." And he said. "I'm going to go play with the children." LOL....But he came back and sat down with me and we looked at it together. And we were through he said "Well, that's that." And I was like "What????" What do you think?" And he said. and this cracks me up...."I'm really glad these women aren't in our ward and I don't have to deal with it." So much for his spirit of discernment! Coward!

[Calm]

My husband would likely respond in the same way...though he would probably take his glasses off as he did when he was a missionary and a woman started nursing in front of him, sweet boy.

[Stone holm]

And why does it just have to be about breaking "temple covenants." No, I don't remember taking a specific covenant that said "You will not put naked pictures of yourself on the internet." HELLO..... It shouldn't be necessary to name all the things you CAN'T do because you have made covenants in the temple. It should be about "Would Heavenly Father really approve of me doing this? If He were here now and I said "Hey, Heavenly Father, what would you think about this?" what would He say. Hmmmmm. Doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Seems like I remember something about fig leaves...

[kassie]

Seems like I remember something about fig leaves...

Yeah...well I remember that part also! But somehow I missed the part about the naked pictures on the internet. Guess I need to get to the temple more often! LOL

[kassie]

My husband would likely respond in the same way...though he would probably take his glasses off as he did when he was a missionary and a woman started nursing in front of him, sweet boy.

I am so laughing! Yes, must have been tough for those sweet missionary boys. And actually he DID take his glasses off. And cleaned them. BEFORE he said " Well, that's that.!" He isn't going to live this one down for awhile I can tell you.

[strappinglad]

Well, after 12 pages of discussion , I ' tukaluk ' said Tom ,the Eskimo voyeur . I didn't see anything offensive and if they want to reclaim their bodies they are welcome to them . Some photos were more ' artistic ' than others. I am of the opinion that young girls should be shown that real women come in all shapes and not just the anorexic model or playboy type. It wouldn't hurt boys to see that also, but I'm not sure how to get around the giggle factor.

[Stone holm]

Yeah...well I remember that part also! But somehow I missed the part about the naked pictures on the internet. Guess I need to get to the temple more often! LOL

Ah a strict constructionist of the Temple Rites , and I thought that was reserved for the Constitution .

[NEDRA]

This story is enjoying a resurgence in recent weeks. In the last few days, it's been circulated among my non-LDS friends on Facebook who consider it a bold feminist statement. The website has gone viral, with news articles from many different countries.

Interestingly, the project is nearly six months old but bone of the women--neither the photographer nor any of the LDS subjects--has been disciplined by the church for participation in this project.

I don't think what they are doing constitutes breaking temple covenants, and apparently their Church leaders don't think so either.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Are these women currently active in the church, or are they exmormons who are rebelling?

[NEDRA]

The majority are active LDS: temple-recommend holding, church-attending, testimony-bearing.

[BlueDreams]

The majority are active LDS: temple-recommend holding, church-attending, testimony-bearing.

 

From what i remember there was a fairly good range in activity.

[bluebell]

Are these women currently active in the church, or are they exmormons who are rebelling?

The last time I checked (about four months ago so much could have changed) it was obvious that about half were no longer active. The rest did not reveal enough information to really judge though a couple in that group were likely also inactive, given how they talked about things.

[Tacenda]

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/02/my_year_of_modesty/

 

Here is a great article, vying for the same thing, just with a lot more clothing on.  In fact, Ellen will appreciate this! 

[Tacenda]

The last time I checked (about four months ago so much could have changed) it was obvious that about half were no longer active. The rest did not reveal enough information to really judge though a couple in that group were likely also inactive, given how they talked about things.

Funny how times change, if they aren't somewhat reprimanded for this.  Chad Hardy lost his BYU diploma and ex'ed stemming from making the calendar of returned missionaries that bare only their chests!  http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=18254980

[bluebell]

Chad lost his diploma because he broke the rules of BYU.  That didn't have anything to do with the church.  If any of these women were students at BYU, they would definitely be reprimanded for breaking the rules as well.

 

As for Chad being ex-ed.  Do we have any evidence that that happened because of the calendar?

[Tacenda]

Chad lost his diploma because he broke the rules of BYU.  That didn't have anything to do with the church.  If any of these women were students at BYU, they would definitely be reprimanded for breaking the rules as well.

 

As for Chad being ex-ed.  Do we have any evidence that that happened because of the calendar?

I'll PM, because don't want to derail.  I get banned way too much for this fault of mine.   

[bluebell]

I think it's really interesting that the creator of the site says this-

 

"I chose not to distinguish whether or not someone was a currently practicing Mormon because I feel that is irrelevant to the project.  What we are exploring is how a woman views herself and her body after spending the majority of her life, particularly her formative years, in the church.  I would welcome a larger representation of currently active members, however one of the ironies of activism is that the same issues that create a need for this project also leave many women hesitant to participate."

 

It seems odd to me that she would think that it is irrelevant to a website called Mormon women bare as to whether or not the women actually consider themselves Mormon.  Her explanation of why it doesn't matter seems weak to me.  I have a really hard time believing that the name wasn't chosen mostly to garner attention to the site and to be provocative. 

 

I also think her explanation on the 'ironies' of why she can't get more active members to participate to be more telling than she might have intended.  If it really doesn't matter whether or not the women are currently active in the church, then why does she want more active members to participate?  What difference could it possibly make to the website?   And if she has no intention of revealing who is active and who isn't (because it is 'irrelevant') then what benefit is there to the project if more active women are represented?

 

This is complete conjecture, but she might not be willing to reveal who is active and who isn't, because she does not currently have any active members participating, and acknowledging that would probably put into question the validity of her project, which claims, in the title, to represent members of the Mormon church.

Edited December 4, 2013 by bluebell

[bluebell]

I'll wait for the PM then. 

[NEDRA]

I actually know a few of them IRL, and they are active. I think "Mormon" is important to the title because they either are culturally or religiously Mormon. It seems fairly simple to me.