Duncan Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 1) I am having the Sister missionaries and two elders over for lunch tomorrow, and my 10yr old will be here, yet they need a chaperone. Howver I have had 2 sisters and 2 elders over here for ward correlation, no chaperone needed. What difference does a meal make? why the chaperone?2) If someone lives outside your ward boundaries but wants to attend church in your ward do they need First Presidency approval? I have heard this is the rule.
ksfisher Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 Don't understand why #1 is a problem. You're a male over 18, so you're the chaperone.#2 If someone wants to have their records transferred to a ward whose bounderies they don't live in they now need 1st presidency approval. You can attend any ward you want, it just wouldn't be considered your home ward. I'm guessing too many people were ward shopping.
EllenMaksoud Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 1) I am having the Sister missionaries and two elders over for lunch tomorrow, and my 10yr old will be here, yet they need a chaperone. Howver I have had 2 sisters and 2 elders over here for ward correlation, no chaperone needed. What difference does a meal make? why the chaperone?2) If someone lives outside your ward boundaries but wants to attend church in your ward do they need First Presidency approval? I have heard this is the rule.I know of several people outside the boundaries who attend my ward. I don't think they asked permission
Darren10 Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 1) I am having the Sister missionaries and two elders over for lunch tomorrow, and my 10yr old will be here, yet they need a chaperone. Howver I have had 2 sisters and 2 elders over here for ward correlation, no chaperone needed. What difference does a meal make? why the chaperone?2) If someone lives outside your ward boundaries but wants to attend church in your ward do they need First Presidency approval? I have heard this is the rule.1) Cannibalism is just sick!!! [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko62jLQjrb42) I've no idea but post #2 seems to know about this. 1
Questing Beast Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 The maxim, "it is always easier to obtain forgiveness than permission" is useful.... 1
rpn Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) He's the ward mission leader, for heaven's sake. Let's not suggest he set a bad example. I get why the sisters couldn't be there without another adult. But aren't the elders that? And isn't the OP chaperone for the sisters vis a vis the elders? I don't know why there would be a problem with the sisters and the elders eating together, at a man's house, without someone else. Edited July 10, 2013 by rpn 1
Duncan Posted July 10, 2013 Author Posted July 10, 2013 He's the ward mission leader, for heaven's sake. Let's not suggest he set a bad example. I get why the sisters couldn't be there without another adult. But aren't the elders that? And isn't the OP chaperone for the sisters vis a vis the elders? I don't know why there would be a problem with the sisters and the elders eating together without someone else.turns out the sisters couldn't get someone else so they had to cancel...so I just had the elders over. I get 'exact obedience' but really?! myself, a 10yr old, 2 elders and 2 sisters (that they raised the bar for) isn't enough people to prevent some bad thing?
Stargazer Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) 2) If someone lives outside your ward boundaries but wants to attend church in your ward do they need First Presidency approval? I have heard this is the rule.What?! I've heard that we're not allowed to drink Coke, either. Those who said so have what? to back them up? Sounds so bizarre. A stake president can excommunicate any member without getting FP approval -- what is then so sacrosanct about living outside your ward boundaries that makes that a FP-approval issue?Is there some administrative form (like a Sealing Cancellation Request form) for this? If so, I've never heard of it. Edited July 11, 2013 by Stargazer
Duncan Posted July 11, 2013 Author Posted July 11, 2013 What?! I've heard that we're not allowed to drink Coke, either. Those who said so have what? to back them up? Sounds so bizarre. A stake president can excommunicate any member without getting FP approval -- what is then so sacrosanct about living outside your ward boundaries that makes that a FP-approval issue?Is there some administrative form (like a Sealing Cancellation Request form) for this? If so, I've never heard of it.okay i'll tell you the story. This lady and her two kid lives on the edge of our ward boundaries, no one lives near her. She needs a ride to Church and that has been on ongoing thing to find rides and stuff for her and for the ward to help. So, the missionaries in the YSA ward found a less active guy who was in YSA but is too old now to attend there so he was reffered to our elders in our ward, without realizing he doesn't live in our ward boundaries but lives across the street. He has a car, has room to take him and her and is willing to come every sunday now he he was getting back into church, problem solved right? well, when everyone pretty much on the ward council was like what a blessing this find is one of the Bishopric counselor said 'not going to happen' apparently he needs to have 1st pres. approval to attend our ward and to hold a calling. So, the Bishop and the counselor told him this and now he has to attend hs ward which is literally a 45 min drive from where he lives, so his attendance is spotty, it's about 30 min to our ward and so we are back to trying to find rides for this lady and she does as well. I just shake my head sometimes
strappinglad Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 Duncan , if you think this bizarre, try working with the Church building committee to approve some building change. Forehead meet brick wall.
Duncan Posted July 11, 2013 Author Posted July 11, 2013 Duncan , if you think this bizarre, try working with the Church building committee to approve some building change. Forehead meet brick wall.stories, I need the stories! I read Elder Groberg's book about the Temple and his experience in trying to get a roof raised on the Temple and ridiculous!!!!
strappinglad Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 I will give you an example of the bureaucratic mindset in a way that is not church related. Our hospital wanted to buy an air compressor to run the croup tent for kids. The compressor was $ 1500 dollars. The health authority would not approve the purchase because it was a capital item , however they were fine with spending $ 15,000 per year for pure Oxygen for the tents ( unnecessary ) because that was a maintenance item. Different budget. Similarly, our Stake wanted a folding curtain wall costing a couple grand but it was refused. The building folks would approve a many thousand dollar construction of a passageway that would significantly reduce the space in our well used social hall. Again , forehead meet brick wall!!! 1
strappinglad Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 Our stake told the building folks in Salt Lake that we would keep the status quo. Had it been me , I would have been tempted to show them a sharp stake and requested that they have a seat. 1
cinepro Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) 2) If someone lives outside your ward boundaries but wants to attend church in your ward do they need First Presidency approval? I have heard this is the rule.I've only seen two kinds of people attend different wards or branches:1. Someone is "called" to attend a nearby ward or branch to strengthen it or serve as a leader.2. Someone isn't quite as "strong" in the Church, and they have a strong preference for attending another ward for some reason, so they just do it. I actually saw one father tell the Bishop that either they would attend a neighboring ward (which was actually in a different stake), or they would just stop attending church altogether. As far as I can tell, there is no discipline meted out and the Church doesn't refuse the tithing.This actually happened twice in that ward, where another family had moved away (from West Los Angeles to the San Fernando Valley!) and they still drove all the way back to the ward in Los Angeles for several years. They even attended weeknight activities. Edited July 11, 2013 by cinepro 1
Duncan Posted July 11, 2013 Author Posted July 11, 2013 I've only seen two kinds of people attend different wards or branches:1. Someone is "called" to attend a nearby ward or branch to strengthen it or serve as a leader.2. Someone isn't quite as "strong" in the Church, and they have a strong preference for attending another ward for some reason, so they just do it. I actually saw one father tell the Bishop that either they would attend a neighboring ward (which was actually in a different stake), or they would just stop attending church altogether. As far as I can tell, there is no discipline meted out and the Church doesn't refuse the tithing.This actually happened twice in that ward, where another family had moved away (from West Los Angeles to the San Fernando Valley!) and they still drove all the way back to the ward in Los Angeles for several years. They even attended weeknight activities.that's a trip!!!! and why would the 1st Presidency need to be involved in these matters?
canard78 Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 I can't find it online, but I'm sure there was a letter a few years back saying first pres permission was not needed any more and it was at the stake president's discretion to move records if needed. The example you cite is simply barmy.
Duncan Posted July 12, 2013 Author Posted July 12, 2013 What does handbook 1/2 say?i dunno, I just shake my head like this guy being found with an empty car is an answer to prayer but policy over people sometimes is well highly annoying. besides of which sometimes these policies exist only in their narrow minds!!! ack, I need ice cream
Calm Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 Doesn't seem like it's in #2, checked the index:https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church?lang=eng
Calm Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 I can't find it online, but I'm sure there was a letter a few years back saying first pres permission was not needed any more and it was at the stake president's discretion to move records if needed.The example you cite is simply barmy.Have sent a question to the FAIR list to see if someone can confirm ksfisher's comment (he may be someone with access to handbook 1, I can't remember but he did have good info on another question IIRC).
Calm Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 I can't find it online, but I'm sure there was a letter a few years back saying first pres permission was not needed any more and it was at the stake president's discretion to move records if needed.So a friend has looked up in handbook 1 and it's not in there either way, but I am thinking that if the letter came out shortly after the new handbook was issued (2010 I believe) it may not have been published in the handbook. I may be able to talk my husband into going over and checking the letter file, but it may have to wait until Sunday unless I can think of something really sweet to bribe him with.
Duncan Posted July 12, 2013 Author Posted July 12, 2013 So a friend has looked up in handbook 1 and it's not in there either way, but I am thinking that if the letter came out shortly after the new handbook was issued (2010 I believe) it may not have been published in the handbook. I may be able to talk my husband into going over and checking the letter file, but it may have to wait until Sunday unless I can think of something really sweet to bribe him with.hmmmm, so this 1st Pres. approval thing might not actually exist? double hmmmmmm
Calm Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Ksfisher seems to be the one most confident that it exists, hopefully he will check back in the thread and tell us why. Edited July 12, 2013 by calmoriah
Tacenda Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 A former member in my ward who is now requiring hospice, wants to still attend our ward. She would most likely only come to Sacrament but our bishop advised her to attend her current ward. She and her husband have a past with the ward that required a lot of service hours to them so they have incredible bonds with us. I was her VT and when I was in the RS Presidency, we helped her husband and her with a lot of things. The RS president bearing the most of that service. She would do things that were far surpassing what her calling would normally be. She is a saint, but back to the story, our ward compassionate leader has called several of us to still help this couple out. I have been able to sit with her while her husband goes shopping or to his dr. appointments. And while with her she complains about her current ward. She longs to be with our ward again. I don't think she'll live very much longer and she still is able to get around enough to attend Sacrament, so I think she should go to my ward's Sacrament meeting if it'll give her peace, and I tell her she should, but she is trying to listen to the one in authority. It baffles me how in her situation an exception can't be made. 1
ERayR Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 What?! I've heard that we're not allowed to drink Coke, either. Those who said so have what? to back them up? Sounds so bizarre. A stake president can excommunicate any member without getting FP approval -- what is then so sacrosanct about living outside your ward boundaries that makes that a FP-approval issue?Is there some administrative form (like a Sealing Cancellation Request form) for this? If so, I've never heard of it.Neither have I. In our area the Bishops involved and the Stake President work it out. The parties involved are allowed some lee way and work is done to gently move them over. It usually happens with teens, whose parents are non-members or not active, who want to attend with friends.
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