"A More Superstitious Age"...Or A Less Receptive Modernity?

[Stone holm]

From time to time, you will encounter an unofficial prophecy or an activity being shrugged off as being a part of a more superstitious age. In addition to this being a somewhat arrogant and dismissive attitude on our part towards certain aspects of spirituality of our forebears, I have over the years begun to question the accuracy of this attitude. Not that any particular prophecy was necessarily rejected, but the idea of what we now tend to dismiss as superstitious as necessarily being false, or the product of ignorance of science.

[Questing Beast]

So the "prophecy" directed at king Cyrus a couple of centuries before he was born wasn't interpolated by "Second Isaiah?" His name really was sitting in the scroll with "Isaiah's" name on it, all that time, waiting to be revealed in Cyrus' presence and wow him into action?...

[tagriffy]

So the "prophecy" directed at king Cyrus a couple of centuries before he was born wasn't interpolated by "Second Isaiah?" His name really was sitting in the scroll with "Isaiah's" name on it, all that time, waiting to be revealed in Cyrus' presence and wow him into action?...

Somehow, I think you're missing Stone holm's point. Mind you, I'm not sure what the point is myself, but I don't think it involves issues of biblical scholarship per se.

[ERayR]

Because we have accomplished so much and have advanced technology so far we tend to dismiss the experiences of an earlier time as superstition. After all our technology performs miracles.

[thesometimesaint]

Because we have accomplished so much and have advanced technology so far we tend to dismiss the experiences of an earlier time as superstition. After all our technology performs miracles.

Comparatively true, but then again we are but mere babes in the woods when compared with God.

[ERayR]

Comparatively true, but then again we are but mere babes in the woods when compared with God.

True but that is not recognized by those who worship our technological accomplishments and those looking for excuses to condemn Joseph Smiths "superstition".

[Stone holm]

Actually my ultimate Earthly authority was commanding me to help in the kitchen so I didn't quite finish that topic before posting, but what I was thinking of was that when the tsunami were occurring over by India a few years back they were concerned about some indigenous peoples who lived on islands and had been left alone from modern society in a sort of preserve. In any event from flyovers they discovered that without the benefit of our modern technology that these people had sensed something was going to happen and had fled to the high ground on mountainous/hills way before we would have known to. I think since the scientific explosion of technology from WWI onward that certain senses have atrophied amongst modern mankind, kind of like disbelief has blocked our senses.

[ERayR]

Actually my ultimate Earthly authority was commanding me to help in the kitchen so I didn't quite finish that topic before posting, but what I was thinking of was that when the tsunami were occurring over by India a few years back they were concerned about some indigenous peoples who lived on islands and had been left alone from modern society in a sort of preserve. In any event from flyovers they discovered that without the benefit of our modern technology that these people had sensed something was going to happen and had fled to the high ground on mountainous/hills way before we would have known to. I think since the scientific explosion of technology from WWI onward that certain senses have atrophied amongst modern mankind, kind of like disbelief has blocked our senses.

Those are the gifts referred to in scripture and which we (and I include myself) have neglected. The ones now called magic and superstition. The ones we are admonished to cultivate.

[Nevo]

From time to time, you will encounter an unofficial prophecy or an activity being shrugged off as being a part of a more superstitious age. . . . I have over the years begun to question the accuracy of this attitude. Not that any particular prophecy was necessarily rejected, but the idea of what we now tend to dismiss as superstitious as necessarily being false, or the product of ignorance of science.

I don't think that beliefs/practices that we now tend to regard as superstitious are necessarily false in every case, but I think that judgment is correct more often than not. While there are undoubtedly blind spots in the modern scientific world view I don't think rationality is a bad thing overall. I certainly don't subscribe to the romantic notion that Stone Age societies or nonliterate prescientific people in general were wiser and more attuned to truth than "modern man."

[thesometimesaint]

I also prefer living in the 21st Century CE. I am always reminded of that it every time I consider that my grandmother came west in a covered wagon.

[Stone holm]

I don't think that beliefs/practices that we now tend to regard as superstitious are necessarily false in every case, but I think that judgment is correct more often than not. While there are undoubtedly blind spots in the modern scientific world view I don't think rationality is a bad thing overall. I certainly don't subscribe to the romantic notion that Stone Age societies or nonliterate prescientific people in general were wiser and more attuned to truth than "modern man."

I wonder about that given Adam was supposedly the third most intelligent of our spirit siblings behind only Christ and Lucifer. While I to appreciate the advancements in technology and medicine that the scientific age has brought, I still wonder if certain knacks, gifts, or senses have atrophied in some way which may have actually diminished our ability to sense or even see or hear things. Just a generation ago we had prominent men talking off warts, I had a prominent client once who had a ring passed down from his father which allowed him to sense the location of corpses (which the State Police) would come and get him when they couldn't locate the bodies of drowning victims, and I have known many who practice dowsing and have been visited by spirits. I have no problem with Joseph having used seer stones with or without a hat, or with Oliver wielding the staff of nature. But I am not defending any particular incident or prophecy, just questioning the arrogance of dismissing something as superstitious.

[Calm]

I wonder about that given Adam was supposedly the third most intelligent of our spirit siblings behind only Christ and Lucifer.

A lot depends on what is meant by "intelligent" by God in this context. I highly doubt it is equivalent to what is measure by IQ tests.

CFR on that claim, btw. I am curious as to where you get that idea. It sounds familiar.

Edited June 2, 2013 by calmoriah

[ronin]

I think there has been a turn away from the gifts of the spirit (or superstitions if you prefer) as our technology has advanced. Now whether that has been do to technology or lack of faith is the big question. If you look back at the early church and you read of them speaking in tongues in sacrament meeting or speaking of visions and prophecy, not to mention the healings that took place, it is interesting to note that instead of speaking in tongues as the Adamic language it is now interpreted as missionaries learning other languages faster than normal. Instead of miraculous healings the doctor gets it right. Instead of visions and prophecy you get a feeling or a thought that tells you what to do. This is not to say that the spirit isn't manifest in these acts but it is certainly not as direct an influence as it was in the early church.

[tyler90az]

- We feel we need these gifts less so we do not seek them.

- It is harder for the spirit to influence us in our days compared to any time in history. This is a busy world we live in and most people do not find quiet time to heed the spirit.

So, I am not sure about some of the examples you gave. I would agree that some may shrug off the ways that revelation was given to our forebears. We have not experienced it which makes it hard to believe. That does not mean it is not possible. If we were brought to the depth that we needed and were thus able to have faith to receive, we would receive. I think of the pioneers crossing the plains and the miraculous experiences they had. Joseph Smith taught, "a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has the power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation." I believe in our own due time, during mortality, all the righteous will be brought to that depth where a trial or trials equates to the sacrifice of all. Then we will get a true sense of what our forebears Isaiah, Paul, Sariah, Lucy Mack Smith, Joseph Smith Jr. and many more went through. After successfully sacrificing all, with faith and endurance, we will be ready to return to our Father when he calls us.

[Avatar4321]

I find our times are as superstitious as any prior time. It's only pride that makes us think otherwise.

[Stone holm]

I find our times are as superstitious as any prior time. It's only pride that makes us think otherwise.

Why would you say that? I suspect I am not communicating well here. Let me take another stab at it. Moses confronts Pharoah. Pharoah's magicians throw down staves that turn into snakes, Aaron's rod hits the floor and turns into a bigger snake and consumes the other two. What through our modern eyes happened there? Another example, an Apache medicine man predicts that a chief will arrive within a few hours, although the Chief is not expected and the Chief arrives. What is going on here? People in early history believed in trolls, elves, etc. that not everyone could see but some could. Some Muslims believed in Djinn. Was that all just mythical delusion?

[thesometimesaint]

The simple answer is I don't know. There is nothing wrong with not knowing, if it inspires you to find out. However to impose a supernatural explanation is unwarranted. It is a classic argument from ignorance fallacy.

Edited June 2, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[Stone holm]

The simple answer is I don't know. There is nothing wrong with not knowing, if it inspires you to find out. However to impose a supernatural explanation is unwarranted. It is a classic argument from ignorance fallacy.

I don't think that we need to impose a supra natural explanation, I do believe we have to keep an open mind and that closed minds may well keep us from having experiences which deny us a true perception of the full beauty and wonder of existence. I always detested the attempts to explain much of the Old Testament events by known current day science as if we had in our brilliance a known cause. Don't get me wrong, I think what we might call supra natural are things governed by laws we do not yet understand. But I feel that modern mankind may have lost some sensory abilities.

[Bikeemikey]

From time to time, you will encounter an unofficial prophecy or an activity being shrugged off as being a part of a more superstitious age. In addition to this being a somewhat arrogant and dismissive attitude on our part towards certain aspects of spirituality of our forebears, I have over the years begun to question the accuracy of this attitude. Not that any particular prophecy was necessarily rejected, but the idea of what we now tend to dismiss as superstitious as necessarily being false, or the product of ignorance of science.

Probably both.

[Bikeemikey]

The simple answer is I don't know. There is nothing wrong with not knowing, if it inspires you to find out. However to impose a supernatural explanation is unwarranted. It is a classic argument from ignorance fallacy.

An interesting question is to what extent will the scientific explanations of our time look like super-natural explanations when compared to the scientific insight and theories being formulated 1000 years from now.

"Dark matter made it happen"

Edited June 2, 2013 by Bikeemikey

[Bikeemikey]

I find our times are as superstitious as any prior time. It's only pride that makes us think otherwise.

What on earth does that mean?

We are to prideful to admit we are superstitious or because of our pride we are not superstitious... either way you post seems like a throw-a-way one liner than a coherent position.

[Stone holm]

Probably both.

Wow Mike sounds like a throw away line. Welcome to the thread.

[ERayR]

I also prefer living in the 21st Century CE. I am always reminded of that it every time I consider that my grandmother came west in a covered wagon.

Me too but it comes with a price.

[Stone holm]

Me too but it comes with a price.

Not talking about gadgetry here, I think we can have both but its going to require us shedding some modern skepticism.

[Avatar4321]

What on earth does that mean?

We are to prideful to admit we are superstitious or because of our pride we are not superstitious... either way you post seems like a throw-a-way one liner than a coherent position.

So because you can't understand what I say, you feel the need to insult? Seriously?

We are too prideful to admit that we are just as superstitious as previous generations. Society treats previous generations as ignoramouses because we have technology they don't have. People haven't changed. Id even say we are more superstitious than previous generations.