Is The L D S Church The Only True Church?

[Thinking]

So as not to derail the other thread where this came up, I am starting a new one.

I was raised LDS, have heard many testimonies from ward members and GA's proclaiming the LDS Church as the only true church. Apparently the phrase "only true church" does not mean what I think it means (shameless PB reference).

No...I think you misunderstand me, the human thing to do and what others do is what they should do...teach a positive message and dwell on what matters. Not sure where I implied other faiths were false. If I may I will speak for myself...I said nothing about us being the one true Church, I said I love it and defended it, I apologize that what I said was misunderstood, but if you are going to quote me please do so properly.

Rather it is that there are those of us who don't necessarily define "one true church" in the same manner that you did as a member or see the implications of that label in the same way.

Boyd K. Packer said, "We did not invent the doctrine of the only true church. It came from the Lord. Whatever perception others have of us, however presumptuous we appear to be, whatever criticism is directed to us, we must teach it to all who will listen."

What does it mean to be the "only true church?"

Edited May 28, 2013 by Thinking

[Calm]

I prefer the phrase "only true and living church" myself.

https://www.lds.org/youth/article/only-true-living-church?lang=eng

Because of this declaration of the Lord, we refer to this, His Church—our Church—as the “only true Church.” Sometimes we do this in a way that gives great offense to people who belong to other churches or who subscribe to other philosophies. But God has not taught us anything that should cause us to feel superior to other people. Certainly all churches and philosophies have elements of truth in them, some more than others. Certainly God loves all of His children. And certainly His gospel plan is for all of His children, all according to His own timetable.

I also find Kevin Christensen's viewpoint informative:

Edited May 28, 2013 by calmoriah

[Robert F. Smith]

So as not to derail the other thread where this came up, I am starting a new one.

I was raised LDS, have heard many testimonies from ward members and GA's proclaiming the LDS Church as the only true church. Apparently the phrase "only true church" does not mean what I think it means (shameless PB reference).

Boyd K. Packer said, "We did not invent the doctrine of the only true church. It came from the Lord. Whatever perception others have of us, however presumptuous we appear to be, whatever criticism is directed to us, we must teach it to all who will listen."

What does it mean to be the "only true church?"

It is probably meant to be taken in a Christian context only, i.e., only the LDS Church has official priesthood authority to act on behalf of God, and, therefore, the LDS Church is the official Kingdom of God on Earth. That doesn't mean that there aren't other good religious organizations and people. Indeed, in many cases we can learn much from them.

Bear in mind that the Roman Catholic Church considers itself to have the only legitimate priesthood authority, and many in Christendom consider the LDS Church to be heretical and false. It goes both ways.

The reason I say "in a Christian context only" is because God also recognizes his ancient covenant people the Jews along with the priesthood which the Levites among them hold. However, since the LDS and the Jews live, as it were, in very different worlds, there is really no conflict of objectives. Each group has its own special trajectory. Somewhere down the road there will be a confluence of the two, but it is very hard to say when.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Robert F. Smith

[halconero]

On a related note, while I believe that this is the Lord's Kingdom here on earth I've come to believe that it isn't perfect. That we have a perfect Gospel espoused and administered by a true, but not perfect church.

For myself personally this isn't a criticism but an acknowledgement of two things:

1) The general membership and the general authorities make mistakes from time to time. We mess up.

2) I personally do not believe that the Church will always be organized along the lines that it is now, with a first presidency and the quorum of the twelve, etc. I believe that shortly before the second coming that there will be a reorganization of the church along familial lines, with your church leaders being those to whom you are sealed, with the ultimate leader being Father Adam, under the direction of the Godhead.

How then, is the Church true, without necessarily being perfect in organization of action? It is true because it is true to the Lord and his revelations, it is living because it listens to those revelations. While at times we may mess up the mistake is and always will be remedied by the Lord directing us individually, our generally. Though some leave, by and large the Church is loyal to correction, further light and progression. I personally feel that the Primitive Church lost its truthfulness upon losing its faithfulness and adherence to divine revelation and began to rely on the wisdom of men.

Peter messed up a couple times, even as the head of the Church. He had to be rebuked by Paul for being wishy washy. There was discontent and disagreement among the leadership (Paul butting heads with his mission companion). The Church was not perfect, but it was true and living. It died with the slaughter of the apostles.

Edited May 28, 2013 by halconero

[Glenn101]

It is probably meant to be taken in a Christian context only, i.e., only the LDS Church has official priesthood authority to act on behalf of God, and, therefore, the LDS Church is the official Kingdom of God on Earth. That doesn't mean that there aren't other good religious organizations and people. Indeed, in many cases we can learn much from them.

I agree with those ideas, and the implications behind them as to saving ordinances.

Glenn

[3DOP]

It is probably meant to be taken in a Christian context only, i.e., only the LDS Church has official priesthood authority to act on behalf of God, and, therefore, the LDS Church is the official Kingdom of God on Earth. That doesn't mean that there aren't other good religious organizations and people. Indeed, in many cases we can learn much from them.

Bear in mind that the Roman Catholic Church considers itself to have the only legitimate priesthood authority, and many in Christendom consider the LDS Church to be heretical and false. It goes both ways.

The reason I say "in a Christian context only" is because God also recognizes his ancient covenant people the Jews along with the priesthood which the Levites among them hold. However, since the LDS and the Jews live, as it were, in very different worlds, there is really no conflict of objectives. Each group has its own special trajectory. Somewhere down the road there will be a confluence of the two, but it is very hard to say when.

Good answer Robert.

How can you be the kingdom of God on earth and (besides the Levites according to your view), with the only efficacious priesthood with power to baptize, and then back away from objective claims of exclusivity? You must be willing to take on the titles of one and true. Such claims do not sit well in a society that celebrates diversity and pluralism in a way that denies truth and exclusive advantage. But the same goes for my Church.

Rory

[cdowis]

cdowis has given the following answer:

"All churches teach a portion of the gospel, but only the LDS church teaches the fullness of the Gospel."

I would add that it is the only church that has the priesthood keys to administer the saving ordinances.

Edited May 28, 2013 by cdowis

[CV75]

What does it mean to be the "only true church?"

From D&C 1:29-30, the one set up through the instrumentation of Joseph Smith (and "also those to whom these commandments were given") under the Lord's direction.

"And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon. And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—"

This is the Church that has consistently reflected what the Lord has spoken, all of which will be fulfilled (according to verse 38)--this rules out any offshoots.

[Kevin Christensen]

I prefer the phrase "only true and living church" myself.

https://www.lds.org/...church?lang=eng

I also find Kevin Christensen's viewpoint informative:

Thanks for the plug. My referenced post from last year has this:

I presented on this at Sunstone years ago, and periodically offer my reading here.

the word "only" is modified by "with which I the Lord am well pleased." The distinction that makes for this church as the only well pleasing one is not exclusive truth ("I the Lord am willing make these things known unto all flesh", D&C 1:34), nor exclusive revelation (Besides revealing himself to Joseph Smith (D&C 1:17), he also gave commandments to unspecified "others that they should proclaim these things to the world" (D&C 1:18). D&C 1 does not even suggest that we have all truth, since it promises "knowledge from time to time" (D&C 1:28), and it expressly says our leaders that "inasmuch as they erred it might be may known," and "inasmuch as they sinned they might repent."

I looked all through the Bible at the uses of both "true" and "living" and the occasional paired use. Things like true vine, living bread, true bread, truth and life, living waters, "true God, living God" "tree of life" "living way" and "living stones" etc. In context these passages refer to revelation, priesthood, ordinances and covenants, and center on Temple. What I found is that the context of the Biblical passages match the themes of D&C 1 verse for verse, point for point. I think "true and living" functions as a merism that together express themes of D&C 1 as a coherent whole.

And it turns out that revelation (Including the Book of Mormon), and the priesthood, ordinances, and covenants and temple are exactly what in actual practice distinguishes the LDS faith from others, not in exclusive terms, but in relative well pleasing terms. It is a far more tolerant and robust model than something like exclusive truth.

For the actual source of the common misreading, see stage 1 and 2 of the Perry Scheme for Cognitive and Ethical Growth.

I'm interested in the relationship between the common misreadings of D&C 1 (in my view) and the early stages of the Perry Scheme (for which I have a link in my profile):

POSITION 2 - Multiplicity Prelegitimate. (Resisting snake)

Now the person moves to accept that there is diversity, but they still think there are TRUE authorities who are right, that the others are confused by complexities or are just frauds. They think they are with the true authorities and are right while all others are wrong. They accept that their good authorities present problems so they can learn to reach right answers independently.

One of the express purposes of D&C 1 to provide the Lord's definition of "the authority of my church." So it seems to me that a careful reading is worthwhile. Thomas Kuhn observed that "anomaly emerges against a background of expectation." Logically that means that where we have faulty expectations, we see anomaly where we shouldn't. It's a problem of motes in the eye when one wishes to see clearly.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

[mfbukowski]

Great comments, all!

[Darren10]

Good answer Robert.

How can you be the kingdom of God on earth and (besides the Levites according to your view), with the only efficacious priesthood with power to baptize, and then back away from objective claims of exclusivity? You must be willing to take on the titles of one and true. Such claims do not sit well in a society that celebrates diversity and pluralism in a way that denies truth and exclusive advantage. But the same goes for my Church.

Rory

If I'm understanding your question correctly, Rory, my view is that the covenant God has restored through Joseph Smith to establish His people under the "one true church" is the same covenant God made with ancient Israel. Israel broke that covenant, was scattered about the earth as a result of God's wrath but God in His mercy will remember that covenant and preserve the Jews until a time which they re-enter into it. The restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ can thus be summed up as a return ot ancient Israel with an explicit mission to one day teach this covenant ot the Jews. And if I'm not mistaken, the Catholic Church believes the same thing regarding Christianity being a return to ancient Israel.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Darren10

[Darren10]

Great comments, all!

What about mine?

[Kenngo1969]

cdowis has given the following answer:

"All churches teach a portion of the gospel, but only the LDS church teaches the fullness of the Gospel."

I would add that it is the only church that has the priesthood keys to administer the saving ordinances.

Yer supposta be, like, famous or somethin', Dude, before ya start referrin' to yerself in the third person! (That, along with the claim of authority by the Church of Jesus Christ, is a good answer. )

[mfbukowski]

What about mine?

Well that'll teach me to post that in the middle of a thread!

[Questing Beast]

Interesting sidestepping of the issue of exclusivity going on here. Priesthood authority is exclusive. Ultimate exaltation in the permanent presence of GtF is exclusive. Mormon temples to that end are exclusive. No amount of watering down the exclusivity claims will remove them, and they have always existed from the getgo: when Jesus Christ told JS that all others were abominable creeds to him....

[mfbukowski]

Interesting sidestepping of the issue of exclusivity going on here.

Every single post answering the question repeats the word "only".

"Only" means only. If that is sidestepping the issue I don't know what would constitute addressing it directly.

[cdowis]

Yer supposta be, like, famous or somethin', Dude, before ya start referrin' to yerself in the third person! (That, along with the claim of authority by the Church of Jesus Christ, is a good answer. )

I am making fun of those quoting some dude in the Ensign, and, for heaven's sake, the FAIR WIKI.

So, what's wrong with quoting the infamous cdowis who makes clever, insightful, profound, noteworthy, comments here in this forum. Is he chopped liver?

[Stone holm]

My view on the matter and my testimony has evolved over the decades, and I feel it must honestly be restricted to having God granted authority and the necessary minimal teachings and rites to obtain Exaltation, which may be obtained nowhere else. Whether it contains the whole truth and nothing but the truth, I doubt. Are their religions which have done a better job of exploring certain issues and developing ethical standards in that regard, I think that is possible. Are there people in other faiths that are farther along towards Exaltation than some Mormons, including this Mormon? Absolutely!

[EllenMaksoud]

So as not to derail the other thread where this came up, I am starting a new one.

I was raised LDS, have heard many testimonies from ward members and GA's proclaiming the LDS Church as the only true church. Apparently the phrase "only true church" does not mean what I think it means (shameless PB reference).

Boyd K. Packer said, "We did not invent the doctrine of the only true church. It came from the Lord. Whatever perception others have of us, however presumptuous we appear to be, whatever criticism is directed to us, we must teach it to all who will listen."

What does it mean to be the "only true church?"

Having directly experienced lots of other churches, and studied even more, it is my opinion that the LDS is the most true. Though I doubt that the others will be sent into outer darkness and endless torment. Though, I have in mind one that perhaps for them it would be fitting, NOT!

[Darren10]

Well that'll teach me to post that in the middle of a thread!

We'll just have to confiscate all your obsidian weapons and call it good.

Always good you hear from you.

[Buzzard]

I think we "fudge" the claim to be the one and only true church because it comes across to others as arrogant-either because they think they have the truth, or because they subscribe to the concept of all roads lead to heaven. But what are you gonna do? JS received the priesthood, and was told that this is the only church with which the Lord is well pleased. Doesn't mean we should be snooty or unchristian to others of different faiths, but the quote is straight from the D&C.

[Gervin]

If I'm understanding your question correctly, Rory, my view is that the covenant God has restored through Joseph Smith to establish His people under the "one true church" is the same covenant God made with ancient Israel.

Except it explicitly is not the same covenant, as described in Jeremiah 31: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke ...

[mfbukowski]

We'll just have to confiscate all your obsidian weapons and call it good.

Always good you hear from you.

The cool thing about obsidian is that if you wear it around your neck, it isn't a "concealed weapon"- it magically becomes "jewelery".

Ah- what's in a name?

[Kevin Christensen]

I think we "fudge" the claim to be the one and only true church because it comes across to others as arrogant-either because they think they have the truth, or because they subscribe to the concept of all roads lead to heaven. But what are you gonna do? JS received the priesthood, and was told that this is the only church with which the Lord is well pleased. Doesn't mean we should be snooty or unchristian to others of different faiths, but the quote is straight from the D&C.

This one illustrates my point, though quite unintentionally.. Is the quote "straight from the D&C?" or is it actually a misquote, based on what a person thinks is there? Does the misquote make a difference in the meaning or not? Is there a difference between a "one and only true church" and a "true and living church" distinguished as the only well pleasing one? Is "one and only" a quote straight from any passage in D&C 1, or this an interpretive gloss? Does it matter?

Just asking. For the record, it was my personal asking that led to my current reading. At first, back in the 1980s I just wanted to know what the "and living" meant. None of the commentaries I checked paid any attention. Is it just a rhetorical flourish, or does it have a specific meaning to convey?

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

Edited May 29, 2013 by Kevin Christensen

[Buzzard]

This one illustrates my point, though quite unintentionally.. Is the quote "straight from the D&C?" or is it actually a misquote, based on what a person thinks is there? Does the misquote make a difference in the meaning or not? Is there a difference between a "one and only true church" and a "true and living church" distinguished as the only well pleasing one? Is "one and only" a quote straight from any passage in D&C 1, or this an interpretive gloss? Does it matter?

Just asking. For the record, is was personal asking that led to my current reading. At first, back in the 1980s I just wanted to know what the "and living" meant. None of the commentaries I checked paid any attention. Is it just a rhetorical flourish, or does it have a specific meaning to convey?

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

It's in the first section, verse 30:

30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have ^apower to lay the foundation of this ^bchurch, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of ^cdarkness, the only true and living ^dchurch upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well ^epleased, ^fspeaking unto the church collectively and not individually—