The Misinformation Around Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith Young

[canard78]

My 2 cents. As per Brigham's implication, Joseph and Zina were "Kindred Spirits" (See: William Hall, The Abominations of Mormonism Exposed (Cincinnati, Ohio: I. Hart and Company, 1852), 43-44.) To me this means that they had been sealed before this life and that they were re-affirming that sealing during this life. (For the record, I am pro-lds).

This thread is a blast from the past.

Given later prophets have made it clear there's no such thing as "the one" or kindred spirits then I suppose you "pays your money and takes your choice." Personally I don't agree with your conclusion.

One wonders why Henry Jacobs couldn't have her back after Joseph's death. Was Brigham a "Reserve Kindred Spirit?"

[katherine the great]

I remember this thread from way back when!  My 2 cents is that Zina had much more say in the way this all played out than anyone is giving her credit for.  If her descendants have all of her journals and letters and still believe that she was abandoned by her first husband than I think that is how she wanted it to be seen. She was a strong person and took the path she chose.  When I compare our history of polygamy (polygyny and the short bout with polyandry) with typical cross cultural polygamy I can only conclude that our way was very messy indeed and bound to eventually fail.

[canard78]

While I feel pleased to see Zina's story told with a little more accuracy by the church I am still reminded at how little of Zina's story has been addressed and how many questions it still throws open.

 

Righteous husband who later went on a mission.

Baby on the way when sealed to Joseph and another on the way when sealed to Brigham.

[KevinG]

But the article skipped the information about the 'struggle' to turn down Joseph 3 times before finally accepting.

 

It also skipped her statements that if she had just listened to the promptings in the first place it would have saved a lot of people a lot of pain.  The article is an overview not a detailed account of all the background and thoughts that went into years of events.

[KevinG]

This thread is a blast from the past.

Given later prophets have made it clear there's no such thing as "the one" or kindred spirits then I suppose you "pays your money and takes your choice." Personally I don't agree with your conclusion.

One wonders why Henry Jacobs couldn't have her back after Joseph's death. Was Brigham a "Reserve Kindred Spirit?"

 

Brigham sealed her to Joseph after Joseph's death.  Brigham was sealed to her only for mortality as he saw himself a steward of Joseph's eternal family.  Zina was pretty clear about that in her journals.  My wife got to see a copy from friends who are Zina's descendants.  Fascinating stuff but I don't cite them because I don't have them and the family likes to keep them close to the vest.  I assume it is to avoid the hazards of trampling swine.

 

It is amusing to see how many people are ready to accuse Joseph and Brigham of all sorts of manipulations, as though Zina had no voice or brain in the matter.  Or those who are ready to mind read long dead Saints.

Edited November 14, 2014 by KevinG

[Scott Lloyd]

I remember this thread from way back when!  My 2 cents is that Zina had much more say in the way this all played out than anyone is giving her credit for.  If her descendants have all of her journals and letters and still believe that she was abandoned by her first husband than I think that is how she wanted it to be seen. She was a strong person and took the path she chose.  When I compare our history of polygamy (polygyny and the short bout with polyandry) with typical cross cultural polygamy I can only conclude that our way was very messy indeed and bound to eventually fail.

I would not concede that it did fail, given the number of families in the Church today who can trace their lineage to plural marriages.

 

I don't believe plurality of wives was instituted for its own sake, nor do I believe it was ever intended to last longer than it did -- just long enough for the early Saints to pass the test that was given them and to generate a critical mass of faithful families in the Church strong enough to allow the Church to survive in the face of oppression and potential assimilation and eventually thrive to fulfill its divine commission to carry the gospel to every nation.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[JLHPROF]

Brigham sealed her to Joseph after Joseph's death.  Brigham was sealed to her only for mortality as he saw himself a steward of Joseph's eternal family.  Zina was pretty clear about that in her journals.  My wife got to see a copy from friends who are Zina's descendants.  Fascinating stuff but I don't cite them because I don't have them and the family likes to keep them close to the vest.  I assume it is to avoid the hazards of trampling swine.

 

It is amusing to see how many people are ready to accuse Joseph and Brigham of all sorts of manipulations, as though Zina had no voice or brain in the matter.  Or those who are ready to mind read long dead Saints.

 

CHURCH CONTEMPORARY RECORDS

 

"Brigham Young & Zina Diantha Smith were then sealed husband & wife for time by H.C. Kimball in presence of William D. Huntington, & Henry B. Jacobs & J.D.L. Young, Henry B. Jacobs expressed his willingness that it should be so in the presence of these witnesses done at 15 m. to 6.

Franklin D. Richards Clk."

(A Book of Proxey,” No. 142. This entry is reproduced in Lyndon W. Cook, Nauvoo Marriages Proxy Sealings 1843-1846 (Provo, Utah: Grandin Book Company, 2004), 178.)

 

VERSUS

 

ANTI MORMON NON-CONTEMPORARY SOURCE

 

"At a place called, by the Mormons, Pisgah, in Iowa, as they were passing through to Council Bluffs, Brigham Young spoke in this wise, in the hearing of hundreds: He said it was time for men who were walking in other men’s shoes to step out of them. “Brother Jacobs,” he says, “the woman you claim for a wife does not belong to you. She is the spiritual wife of brother Joseph, sealed up to him. I am his proxy, and she, in this behalf, with her children, are my property. You can go where you please, and get another, but be sure to get one of your own kindred spirit.”

(William Hall, The Abominations of Mormonism Exposed (Cincinnati, Ohio: I. Hart and Company, 1852)

 

 

I don't doubt that Henry had his challenges, but historically it seems more likely that he supported Zina in her sealing to Joseph and Brigham.  There is also no doubt that it broke his heart based on his letters to her.  But he supported the sealings, and married a couple of additional wives himself afterwards.

[Calm]

I can't seem to find this, sorry if it got posted already:

 

http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/fair-conferences/2006-fair-conference/2006-zina-and-her-men-an-examination-of-the-changing-marital-state-of-zina-diantha-huntington-jacobs-smith-young

[canard78]

I can't seem to find this, sorry if it got posted already:

 

http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/fair-conferences/2006-fair-conference/2006-zina-and-her-men-an-examination-of-the-changing-marital-state-of-zina-diantha-huntington-jacobs-smith-young

 

Thanks - it was one of my sources in the OP, but it's an important article and well-worth referencing again.

[Calm]

If you mean you read it and used it but didn't link to it, I can see that as possible, but unless I am really out of it …which is quite possible as I worked for a number of hours on moving Mom and Dad into their new place today and am now wiped…very disappointing, last time I did this I could work for three days straight before collapsing…but then that was about 25 years ago…I've managed to avoid being around for moves till now since then…I don't see it there….

 

 

 It looks like in the OP you just list the FM polyandry section on Zina, my link is to a FM conference talk a number of years ago by Allen Wyatt called Zina and Her Men, which I very much like for pulling it all together.

Edited November 16, 2014 by calmoriah

[canard78]

If you mean you read it and used it but didn't link to it, I can see that as possible, but unless I am really out of it …which is quite possible as I worked for a number of hours on moving Mom and Dad into their new place today and am now wiped…very disappointing, last time I did this I could work for three days straight before collapsing…but then that was about 25 years ago…I've managed to avoid being around for moves till now since then…I don't see it there….

 

 

 It looks like in the OP you just list the FM polyandry section on Zina, my link is to a FM conference talk a number of years ago by Allen Wyatt called Zina and Her Men, which I very much like for pulling it all together.

Sorry to hear you're not well.

Here are my sources in the OP. The link is #4 of 7. Hope that helps.

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina_D._H._Young

https://www.lds.org/friend/1989/02/zina-diantha-huntington-young-angel-of-mercy?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/callings/relief-society/relief-society-presidents/zina-h-young

http://www.fairlds.org/fair-conferences/2006-fair-conference/2006-zina-and-her-men-an-examination-of-the-changing-marital-state-of-zina-diantha-huntington-jacobs-smith-young

http://en.fairmormon.org/Polygamy_book/Polyandry#Zina_Diantha_Huntington_Jacobs

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SP82-3VK

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SP8G-GJL

[Calm]

Got it, it is an old one so didn't look the same at a quick glance.

 

I am feeling quite fine now, back up after the adrenaline crash, lol…just needed to stretch a bit, eat some decent food, now just a bit achy from doing more than I usually do, but hopefully Mom and Dad are tucked up nicely in their beds and we all will rest well tomorrow and go dig in again on Monday and hopefully get the kitchen set up and get some unnecessary boxes down to my place to deal with when they've recovered from the move (he has boxes of old electronics probably useless)

[ZinaDescendantJacobs]

I am a direct descendant of Zina from the Henry Bailey line. My great Aunt gave me records of Henry Bailey that are heartbreaking. He was sent on a mission, he was exiled, and he was not allowed to return to Utah according to his letters. I have been told that the journals are always passed to the youngest daughter of Zina's daughter Zina's blood line. I would like to find the journals in their entirety. I debated posting here for fear of some sort of retribution. I am saddened that the Jacobs name is hardly referenced in online documents. Henry's children with Zina; Henry and Chariton ended up being Brigham Young's drivers and it is unknown if they ever got to see their father Henry Bailey prior to his death. It is true that the Lds.org records gloss over this story. My intent isn't to rock the boat, but find her journals so I can compare them to Henry Bailey's account of the story. I do not intend to publish or disclose his information but know that when my grandfather was a child there was a lot of shame around keeping the secrets of the marriage and exile of Henry and Zina. I want to read the journals as I know they are partially in closed records so I want to find my relative that has them. Any help would be appreciated.

[Storm Rider]

I hope you are able to find them.  

 

In our own family it is difficult to track down who has our ancestors journals.  I know that one journal was transcribed and put into a small book and shared, but it was not the complete journal and was edited.  I guess it would take a lot of effort to get family journals published and shared with the broader family, but it would be nice if that took place.  

[Calm]

Have you signed up on ancestry.com or familysearch.org.  You might be able to connect with family members interested in family history and who have done some research.

 

You also might contact the Church History Library, they may have information or be able to put you in contact with someone who does.

[Calm]

You might try to contact the author of this article who appears to have had access to at least one of them:

 

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/byustudies/id/663

 

Here is another reference:

 

 Autobiography of Zina D. Young, no date, part of the Zina Card Brown Family Collection (1806-1972), LDS Church Archives, MS 4780, box 2, folder 17, cited by Wyatt, "Zina and Her Men: An Examination of the Changing Marital State of Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith Young,"; John Wight with Zina D.H. Young, 1 October 1898, “Evidence from Zina D. Huntington-Young,” Saints Herald, 52 (11 January 1905): 28

Edited April 27, 2015 by calmoriah

[ALarson]

I am a direct descendant of Zina from the Henry Bailey line. My great Aunt gave me records of Henry Bailey that are heartbreaking. He was sent on a mission, he was exiled, and he was not allowed to return to Utah according to his letters. I have been told that the journals are always passed to the youngest daughter of Zina's daughter Zina's blood line. I would like to find the journals in their entirety. I debated posting here for fear of some sort of retribution. I am saddened that the Jacobs name is hardly referenced in online documents. Henry's children with Zina; Henry and Chariton ended up being Brigham Young's drivers and it is unknown if they ever got to see their father Henry Bailey prior to his death. It is true that the Lds.org records gloss over this story. My intent isn't to rock the boat, but find her journals so I can compare them to Henry Bailey's account of the story. I do not intend to publish or disclose his information but know that when my grandfather was a child there was a lot of shame around keeping the secrets of the marriage and exile of Henry and Zina. I want to read the journals as I know they are partially in closed records so I want to find my relative that has them. Any help would be appreciated.

Wow, fascinating!  I'd love to hear more about what the records of Henry Bailey Jacobs state.  Of course, I respect your privacy on this too.  

 

I wonder if someone should just start a new thread and copy your request into the opening post for you since you can't start threads yet?  You'd probably get more people on here to see it that way who may be able to help you.  I'd be happy to do that if you'd like, ZinaDescendantJacob.

 

Looks like calmoriah has given you some suggestions to check out too.  She's always willing to help!

[ZinaDescendantJacobs]

Thanks everyone for your replies. ALarson I would be happy to have you post the thread. The other difficult part is that some of Henry Bailey's descendants would like me to keep quiet about all of it so it makes it a bit tricky to ask them for help. I have been told that the youngest daughter of each of the Zina's have the journals. If they have all been turned over to the church records I am not sure how likely I will be able to get a look at them.

As far as The Henry Bailey records I am planning to digitize them this summer. I understand that people are human, and things happen that make no sense. I don't believe the church or anyone today can explain away the truth about what happened back then. I have interviews with Zina at the end of her life where she explains what happened. The interviews are perplexing and very informative. Her journals would really help me understand.

When I was in college I was walking in the SLC cemetary in the avenues. Zina, buried near Zebulon Baily and wife. (Henry Chariton Jacobs is buried in Mt. Pleasant,Utah) and there it was on the grave stone Zina Diantha "wife of Brigham Young" "Mother" and in the same area a very small gravestone Henry Bailey. It was not marked with father or husband. I honestly stumbled upon it a few weeks after my aunt had given me the Henry Bailey records. I don't think it is a coincidence. Lately I am up nights thinking about this story.

Anyway, a delicate family matter, perhaps an even more delicate church matter, yet somehow the spirits of the past are not at rest. Or perhaps I am not at rest not knowing the real story. I believe we can learn many things from our own stories, our family stories and most often the truth.

So, I will look at all of the above and thanks for re-posting my original thread ALarson. I don't want to spook Zina's other family. It is just that I want to know the truth. She was my great great great grandmother. Without Henry Bailey and Zina I would not be here.

[ZinaDescendantJacobs]

And whoever wants to know a bit more about Henry Bailey feel free to message me. You can do that on this site right?

[Calm]

If you have over 25 posts...