Soul Mates - The Difference Between Promotion And Teachings

[thatjimguy]

I am a convert and one of the most beautiful things I found was that we can be with our wives forever as eternal companions. However, I have been doing research as of late (see other post what started it) and found this from Pres. Kimball and Pres. Packer in "Choosing an Eternal Companion"

“ ‘Soul mates’ are a fiction and an illusion; and while every young man and young woman will seek with all diligence and prayerfulness to find a mate with whom life can be most compatible and beautiful, yet it is certain that almost any good man and any good woman can have happiness and a successful marriage if both are willing to pay the price” (“Marriage and Divorce,” p. 146).

EDIT: I should note here that my problem is not about the idea of a "Soul Mate", which pertains to pre-destined marriages. The problem is the notion that there is not "one" that fits the bill or that the partner is replaceable and could have well have been anyone. This seems to grind against the way eternal marriage is portrayed.

“While I am sure some young couples have some special guidance in getting together, I do not believe in predestined love. If you desire the inspiration of the Lord in this crucial decision, you must live the standards of the Church, and you must pray constantly for the wisdom to recognize those qualities upon which a successful union may be based. You must do the choosing, rather than to seek for some one-and-only so-called soul mate, chosen for you by someone else and waiting for you. You are to do the choosing. You must be wise beyond your years and humbly prayerful unless you choose amiss” (Eternal Love [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1973], p. 11).

• • What do President Kimball and Elder Packer mean by the term soul mate? (A person that is considered the one and only right person.)
  

Point out that young men should not be looking for the right person but a right person, similar to themselves in religion, values, goals, and ideals.

Source: http://www.mormondia...o=new_post&f=11

My problem should be obvious....this is not how we promote this doctrine to potential converts. I am not mad at my missionaries because I know that they can only know so much about every subject. But yeah, no one says when talking about Eternal marriage these things. We allow people to believe the romantic part of it in their minds.

Even with this right in front of them I doubt most LDS students here at BYU-I think this way. They are thinking about a romantic version of eternal marriage. I doubt they think their partner could "just as well be someone else" . The idea is about "the one".

How much of this outlook on doctrine stems from polygamy? Where having this attitude would be prudent?

Edited March 17, 2013 by thatjimguy

[rodheadlee]

can you enlarge the print?

[Calm]

My problem should be obvious....this is not how we promote this doctrine to potential converts.

CFR please.

I was high school age when when that LDS musical whose name escapes me at the moment and was a runaway hit among LDS promoted the idea of meeting your one and only in the premortal life and making that commitment to no matter what happened in mortality, to meet and marry. The idea made me gag at the time, I was not a romantic and thought it was about as silly as one could get...what if someone was born 80 or 800 years apart for example or one died of smallpox as a child?

Even then leaders were coming out and saying it wasn't the way things were in reality. If there are some missionaries who haven't been paying attention and are teaching it to converts, that is unfortunate, but if they are, it is because they are going outside the structure of Preach My Gospel.

For me, what is beautiful about the idea of soul mates is that we can become through our own choice---not because it is forced upon us by our eternal natures---to become such to each other that we are truly one, that our souls belong to each other because we chose each other not only in the first moment of encounter (if that were to happen) but in every moment thereafter.

My husband was not my soul mate when we first met, I could have walked away from the relationship without tearing my heart and soul out. Now I can't and that is because of what we have chosen for our relationship, not because we had to, but because we wanted to.

I find that much more inherently romantic than the idea of being forced to love someone no matter what that person is really like or whether I want to or not.

Edited March 16, 2013 by calmoriah

[Duncan]

CFR please.

I was high school age when when that LDS musical whose name escapes me at the moment and was a runaway hit among LDS promoted the idea of meeting your one and only in the premortal life and making that commitment to no matter what happened in mortality, to meet and marry. The idea made me gag at the time, I was not a romantic and thought it was about as silly as one could get...what if someone was born 80 or 800 years apart for example?

Even then leaders were coming out and saying it wasn't the way things were in reality. If there are some missionaries who haven't been paying attention and are teaching it to converts, that is unfortunate, but if they are, it is because they are going outside the structure of Preach My Gospel.

Saturdays Warrior?

[Calm]

Saturdays Warrior?

Yes...I've tried to purge it from my mind and have apparently be somewhat successful.

[Duncan]

I am a convert and one of the most beautiful things I found was that we can be with our wives forever as eternal companions. However, I have been doing research as of late (see other post what started it) and found this from Pres. Kimball and Pres. Packer in "Choosing an Eternal Companion"

“ ‘Soul mates’ are a fiction and an illusion; and while every young man and young woman will seek with all diligence and prayerfulness to find a mate with whom life can be most compatible and beautiful, yet it is certain that almost any good man and any good woman can have happiness and a successful marriage if both are willing to pay the price” (“Marriage and Divorce,” p. 146).

“While I am sure some young couples have some special guidance in getting together, I do not believe in predestined love. If you desire the inspiration of the Lord in this crucial decision, you must live the standards of the Church, and you must pray constantly for the wisdom to recognize those qualities upon which a successful union may be based. You must do the choosing, rather than to seek for some one-and-only so-called soul mate, chosen for you by someone else and waiting for you. You are to do the choosing. You must be wise beyond your years and humbly prayerful unless you choose amiss” (Eternal Love [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1973], p. 11).

• • What do President Kimball and Elder Packer mean by the term soul mate? (A person that is considered the one and only right person.)
  

Point out that young men should not be looking for the right person but a right person, similar to themselves in religion, values, goals, and ideals.

Source: http://www.mormondia...o=new_post&f=11

My problem should be obvious....this is not how we promote this doctrine to potential converts. I am not mad at my missionaries because I know that they can only know so much about every subject. But yeah, no one says when talking about Eternal marriage these things. We allow people to believe the romantic part of it in their minds.

Even with this right in front of them I doubt most LDS students here at BYU-I think this way. They are thinking about a romantic version of eternal marriage. I doubt they think their partner could "just as well be someone else" . The idea is about "the one".

How much of this outlook on doctrine stems from polygamy? Where having this attitude would be prudent?

I don't think it stems from Polygamy. I think people can become soulmates. I have heard a General Authority say something like he doesn't believe that people picked their spouses in the pre mortal life, maybe some do but generally speaking we didn't. I think you could be married quite well to several people.

[Duncan]

Yes...I've tried to purge it from my mind and have apparently be somewhat successful.

I've only seen it once, In Cardston no less!

[Calm]

I don't think it stems from Polygamy.

IIRC Joseph Smith appealed to one woman on the basis that she had been given to him in premortal life as a wife. I would really like to know what he had in mind about that.

I believe there may be some relationships that have been 'appointed', Adam and Eve for one, probably Mary and Joseph, Abraham and Sarah for others. I also believe the vast majority of relationships are a result of mortal circumstances, not premortal...but whether the beginning is in premorality or mortality, the relationship can still be eternal so I don't see either as more or less significant, important, blessed or divine than the other.

[CV75]

My problem should be obvious....this is not how we promote this doctrine to potential converts.

What is the doctrine you object to?

[bluebell]

I'm honestly not seeing the problem. I've been a member of the church since i was ten, and i've served a mission, and have never heard anyone teach any kind of a notion of a soul mate. I've seen the silly show Saturday's Warrior (and think it's hilarious) but i've never met anyone who sincerely believed that it taught doctrine (though they are probably out there somewhere). Teenagers often have such notions (because they are naturally immature when it comes to what love is and what it means to be in love) but every leader i ever had growing up worked to get such ideas out of our heads.

The fact that there isn't just one person in all of existence that someone can love eternally and be completely devoted to does not in any way negate or dim the beauty of eternal marriage. In fact, as Cal said, it is actually much more romantic to realize that when two people have an eternal marriage, it's because they choose to have one, and have worked very hard for it and for each other, and not because it fell into their laps and was forced upon them through some weird choice of 'destiny'.

I choose my husband. Not because i can't be happy without him, but because i don't want to be. How can the idea of soul mates be any better than that?

[rpn]

The Mormon perception of soulmate comes not from any teachings of the church, but from a musical widely performed in the 1970's throughout mormon communities. It told the story of a couple who promised to find each other on earth so they could be married and together through eternity. Some members then started thinking that they were looking for and must find THE one to marry.

While many of us have heard people testify that they personally found one whom they believed they had promised in the pre-existence to marry, and it certainly could be true of some, it is neither church doctrine nor even possible (unless the Lord disavows agency) for that to be a universal truth.

Leaders' efforts to encourage people to look for compatibility and someone who makes us want to be our best selves and not be afraid that we screw up if we don't feel the magic of a soulmate romance experience isn't intended to undermine and doesn't counteract OP's belief. It merely attempts to eliminate an excuse some people have for delaying marriage because they think they should be looking for the one perfect one for them. (When BECOMING the perfect one in various things is highly more likely to lead to a happy marriage.)

[DarkScythe]

personally i can go either way on Soul mates. But I do think in the pre existence, that we meet several several potential soul mates. I do think also that in the Christ's reign that those couldn't get married but want too, could get married during that time.

[ERayR]

CFR please.

I was high school age when when that LDS musical whose name escapes me at the moment and was a runaway hit among LDS promoted the idea of meeting your one and only in the premortal life and making that commitment to no matter what happened in mortality, to meet and marry. The idea made me gag at the time, I was not a romantic and thought it was about as silly as one could get...what if someone was born 80 or 800 years apart for example or one died of smallpox as a child?

Even then leaders were coming out and saying it wasn't the way things were in reality. If there are some missionaries who haven't been paying attention and are teaching it to converts, that is unfortunate, but if they are, it is because they are going outside the structure of Preach My Gospel.

For me, what is beautiful about the idea of soul mates is that we can become through our own choice---not because it is forced upon us by our eternal natures---to become such to each other that we are truly one, that our souls belong to each other because we chose each other not only in the first moment of encounter (if that were to happen) but in every moment thereafter.

My husband was not my soul mate when we first met, I could have walked away from the relationship without tearing my heart and soul out. Now I can't and that is because of what we have chosen for our relationship, not because we had to, but because we wanted to.

I find that much more inherently romantic than the idea of being forced to love someone no matter what that person is really like or whether I want to or not.

Would that be "My Turn on Earth".

[rodheadlee]

Thanks thatjimguy for blowing up the font. I don't think my relationship with my wife was predestined, just that I knew her and loved her before. I also agree that there could be more than one person that you can become soulmates with. They are just few and far between. A friend of mine passed on marrying a gal back in the 1980s, she has been happily married for quite some time now, but he to this day measures each woman he meets to this woman. He won't date and he'll probably never marry because none measure up to the one he passed on.

[Calm]

Would that be "My Turn on Earth".

Same thing as Saturday's Warrior from what I understand (saw the first as my then boyfriend said I had to experience it just for the historical significance of it...plus it was a cheap date but never saw the second so I may be wrong in my opinion), but I was thinking of SW.

[thatjimguy]

I am out here at BYU-I. I do not think that this idea of "no special one" is what is people are shooting for. When these people think about forever, by and large, it looks like the hopeless romantic version to me. If the above is doctrine and eternal marriage being so critical, how come more effort isn't brought forth to denounce romantic notions like these girls find in Disney movies? Most girls up here watch Disney movies and want "that one".

Edited March 16, 2013 by thatjimguy

[TAO]

Thatjimguy, generally, when I think about 'forever and ever' it's a 'forever and ever future' not a 'forever and ever past' so much, I'd say.

And yeah, I'm a hopelesss romantic. But I don't believe in the concept of soul mates. I just think it's an issue of dedication and service, and that makes me happy.

Edited March 17, 2013 by TAO

[thatjimguy]

Sory for the confusion about the soul mate thing folks. I added this to the OP.

EDIT: I should note here that my problem is not about the idea of a "Soul Mate", which pertains to pre-destined marriages. The problem is the notion that there is not "one" that fits the bill or that the partner is replaceable and could have well have been anyone. This seems to grind against the way Eternal Marriage is portrayed.

[Duncan]

Sory for the confusion about the soul mate thing folks. I added this to the OP.

EDIT: I should note here that my problem is not about the idea of a "Soul Mate", which pertains to pre-destined marriages. The problem is the notion that there is not "one" that fits the bill or that the partner is replaceable and could have well have been anyone. This seems to grind against the way Eternal Marriage is portrayed.

well, I wouldn't say anyone can marry you! That would be like Male Robot A should get married to Female Robot Q or P-doesn't matter they are all the same. It's as if we are interchangeable, and which we are not, most definately. Different strokes for different folks!

Edited March 17, 2013 by Duncan

[Questing Beast]

...

They are thinking about a romantic version of eternal marriage. I doubt they think their partner could "just as well be someone else" . The idea is about "the one".

How much of this outlook on doctrine stems from polygamy? Where having this attitude would be prudent?

All of it stems from polygamy when it comes from the GA's. But the Church is far more than the wisdom dispensed by the GA's.

Marriage is supposed to be more than a contract of mutual commitment. It IS supposed to be romantic. That it most often seems to not be romantic is one of the ills of this world, imho.

I am incurably, inevitably, romantic in my core being. I've had a lot of my romanticism beaten and worn out of me. But I retain the core of my romantic outlook still. And my wife is the beneficiary of that. Most of our married life (well in excess of thirty years) has been saddled with the usual "Real Life" concerns, but with "empty nesters syndrome" looming in the immediate future, we have devoted more time to each other, or rather, I have acknowledged my wife's intent to do that even more, even as she has become more busy than ever with simply maintaining herself to be a healthy person. I have willed myself to see our relationship as "the one", and even written a book centered upon us as the protagonists, in a half-fictitious setting, and I have done this all with the intent to make my marriage more meaningful in the romantic sense - and not just the earthly romantic sense, but the cosmic, the immortal romantic sense.

I have shared my view on "God as the soul-mate" relationship here already. But in a nutshell, my favorite concept of "God's" purpose in creating us is to have us arrive at the point as immortal soul-mates for "God" to enjoy, and for us to enjoy "God" back in the same way. That means, to my mind, that my wife, no matter who she might have started out as, BECOMES the One, the Soul-Mate, and "God" changes her, and me, into that for each other. We experience "God" through experiencing the One. That is why polygamy is pretty darn close to being the most disgusting heresy I can imagine....

Edited March 17, 2013 by Questing Beast

[Calm]

could have well have been anyone.

Not just anyone. it would have to be someone committed to living a celestial life in the here and now as well as being capable of seeing the celestial nature in others and those kind of people are few and far between even among the Saints in my experience.

[Calm]

You must be wise beyond your years and humbly prayerful unless you choose amiss

This does not sound like he thinks that "anyone" would do; in fact, it would seem to me that one's choice might even be looking for someone who is more exceptional than someone who feels like a "soulmate" since that sense of 'soulmating' is often an emotional 'gut' response.

A relative found her soulmate and was married in 6 weeks when they eloped to LV. By a year later neither of them saw the other as their soulmate anymore and eventually he came to her and said he was leaving because 'love was something one shouldn't have to work at'....the soul destroying concept of the soulmate mythology. I have heard of many others who married their soulmate to later divorce when they found that 5 or 10 years later their 'souls' were no longer the same and thus the mating was no longer in effect. They had thought that soul love would ensure that abyss of separation would never be allowed to enter into their relationship no matter what they did or more likely didn't do (actually pay attention to the other in most cases as opposed to just assuming that because they were "soulmates" the other would want exactly what s/he wanted).

That is why I don't believe in a "soulmate". People have different needs and desires at different times in their lives and will thus be attracted to different people at those times. The true soulmate is one we choose at one time in our lives where we both commit to being there for each other no matter what and then we work on growing closer together over time rather than assuming we will stay that way simply because we were 'made for each other'. We are not ever "made for each other" as we are dynamic, changing beings; instead, we 'make ourselves' into what we need and want for ourselves and our loved one and we keep ourselves that way by continuing to work at meeting the needs of the other in our eternal relationship.

Edited March 17, 2013 by calmoriah

[bluebell]

Sory for the confusion about the soul mate thing folks. I added this to the OP.

EDIT: I should note here that my problem is not about the idea of a "Soul Mate", which pertains to pre-destined marriages. The problem is the notion that there is not "one" that fits the bill or that the partner is replaceable and could have well have been anyone. This seems to grind against the way Eternal Marriage is portrayed.

Before you know someone and fall in love with them and get married,many are pretty much replaceable. After that happens, not so much.

It's like when you have kids. Before you have them (even when you are pregnant and expecting them), it really doesn't matter who the child is. You are excited to be having a child-any child Heavenly Father wants to give you-and your ability to love and care for that child is not dependant upon him or her being a specific person.

At that point, you could give birth (or have a wife that gives birth) to any child with any number of different personalities and issues, and you could be a good parent to that child and be extremely happy with them and love them completely, regardless.

After they arrive though, that all changes. You don't just want 'a' child, you want 'your' child. And not only that, you have a responsibility to that specific child that you don't have to children in general. They are not interchangable anymore.

It's the same with finding your eternal companion. Before you fall in love, it helps to realize that there are probably dozens of people who you might meet over the next few years that you could be happy with, and that you could be a good spouse too and have a very happy life with.

After you fall in love and decide to choose one of them, then that changes. They are no longer 'one of many choices'-they are the one your chose and that makes them special and different from every other potential spouse out there. It means that not only will you not want anyone else, but that it would be inappropriate to still consider them to be interchangeable with others. When you committ and promise yourself to someone for eternity (even just for this life), then they become one of a kind, not because you could never have been happy with another, but because you chose to never be happy with another (unless special circumstances like death or divorce supercede your previous committment).

[Brenda]

The best response I have ever heard on the subject of soul mates is that if you are married, you have found your soul mate. Your spouse IS your soul mate.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The best response I have ever heard on the subject of soul mates is that if you are married, you have found your soul mate. Your spouse IS your soul mate.

You have been missed around here...welcome back.