Desnews: 33 Scout Councils Ask Bsa To Delay Decision

[CV75]

Ask the BSA. They're the ones who have made sexual orientation an issue.

RE: the rhetorical question, “why is an adult’s (or youth’s) sexual preference at all relevant to an adult-mentored youth program?”

Because from this point of view, this is one way of asserting that one’s private sexual behavior is expected to be accepted as the norm, even when such a norm in opposition to those of the other (typically non-religious) chartering organizations’ and the founding BSA organization's. This is how to influence the next generation's level of acceptance of a new norm. The norm is generally assumed and accepted without comment.

[semlogo]

RE: the rhetorical question, “why is an adult’s (or youth’s) sexual preference at all relevant to an adult-mentored youth program?”

Because from this point of view, this is one way of asserting that one’s private sexual behavior is expected to be accepted as the norm, even when such a norm in opposition to those of the other (typically non-religious) chartering organizations’ and the founding BSA organization's. The norm is generally assumed and accepted without comment.

It is the nature of humans to come to challenge norms, especially as they are deemed to be outdated and harmful. This is another chapter of the same rights revolution that brought us votes for women, the end of Jim Crow, laws protecting children, animals and women from abuse, worker's rights, etc. It's part of the same impulse.

[Damien the Leper]

“Bishop, I’ve always been heterosexual, which I think is pretty obvious [because I’ve made it a point to communicate it] and I think it would be good for the boys and girls to be aware of this as part of their acculturation in the youth program, as it is bound to come up. I am eager to serve.”

Should it not cross Bishop’s mind that perhaps this guy might have an attitude that is not consistent with youth protection and safety?

This scenario is just awkward and I think you're reaching.

[semlogo]

“Bishop, I’ve always been heterosexual, which I think is pretty obvious [because I’ve made it a point to communicate it] and I think it would be good for the boys and girls to be aware of this as part of their acculturation in the youth program, as it is bound to come up. I am eager to serve.”

Should it not cross Bishop’s mind that perhaps this guy might have an attitude that is not consistent with youth protection and safety?

"I'm tired of straight people throwing their straightness in everyone's face, with their public weddings, openly talking about their opposite sex spouses, putting pictures of their opposite sex partners on their desks, blatantly referencing their children which is a de facto reference to their heterosexuality, etc."

[CV75]

It is the nature of humans to come to challenge norms, especially as they are deemed to be outdated and harmful. This is another chapter of the same rights revolution that brought us votes for women, the end of Jim Crow, laws protecting children, animals and women from abuse, worker's rights, etc. It's part of the same impulse.

So in principle you agree with me.

[Scott Lloyd]

This just in.

The national executive board of the Boy Scouts of America has decided to delay its decision on whether or not to allow gay Scouts and Scout leaders until its annual meeting in May.

"After careful consideration and extensive dialogue within the Scouting family, along with comments from those outside the organization, the volunteer officers of the Boy Scouts of America's National Executive Board concluded that due to the complexity of this issue, the organization needs time for a more deliberate review of its membership policy," the national executive board said in a statement that was released Wednesday morning.

[CV75]

This scenario is just awkward and I think you're reaching.

It is certainly awkward, and it is the same dynamic that some folks allow an activist organization to play out for them by proxy in the name of rights.

[CV75]

"I'm tired of straight people throwing their straightness in everyone's face, with their public weddings, openly talking about their opposite sex spouses, putting pictures of their opposite sex partners on their desks, blatantly referencing their children which is a de facto reference to their heterosexuality, etc."

And?

[Scott Lloyd]

What the Salt Lake Council position reflects is a bunch of people who are not yet paying attention to the prophetic counsel to love those who are slightly different than they are, and to not treat those with ssa badly.

It is not self-evident that opposition to the proposed change in the BSA policy ignores prophetic counsel.

[semlogo]

And?

Sometimes it's helpful to see the mirror image of one's viewpoints.

[semlogo]

So in principle you agree with me.

I agree that this represents a change in tradition, yes. I don't agree with you that traditions are valuable simply because they are traditions. If that is indeed your view.

[BCSpace]

The national executive board of the Boy Scouts of America has decided to delay its decision on whether or not to allow gay Scouts and Scout leaders until its annual meeting in May.

Sounds to me like a corrupt executive board floated a trial balloon and found the waters to be boiling hot While they represent a lot of money, it's time to remove Turley and Stephenson from that board. BSA also needs to get a different honorary president.

[BCSpace]

"I'm tired of straight people throwing their straightness in everyone's face, with their public weddings, openly talking about their opposite sex spouses, putting pictures of their opposite sex partners on their desks, blatantly referencing their children which is a de facto reference to their heterosexuality, etc."

I'm tired of bullies and thugs sticking their noses into the doings of churches and private organizations.

[CV75]

Sometimes it's helpful to see the mirror image of one's viewpoints.

That wasn't it. But if you'd like to discuss the more salient issues, I will respond to those.

[CV75]

I agree that this represents a change in tradition, yes. I don't agree with you that traditions are valuable simply because they are traditions. If that is indeed your view.

Nope, not at all. Please stick to the statements made if you wish to continue a discussion.

[semlogo]

I'm tired of bullies and thugs sticking their noses into the doings of churches and private organizations.

Thankfully this isn't happening.

[semlogo]

Nope, not at all. Please stick to the statements made if you wish to continue a discussion.

I apologize if I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

[Saints Alive]

BSA also needs to get a different honorary president.

That thought has crossed my mind as well but I actually like the tradition and am proud that my Eagle Scout card and certificate were signed (or more likely auto penned) by GWB (best President since Reagan IMHO).

[Calm]

I believe the official policy is that open gays are not allowed. So as long as you keep it in the closet (i.e. don't ask, don't tell) you will not be kicked out.

Unless someone else tells them which means you cannot be open about your issues to anyone without swearing them to secrecy....not a healthy way to live.

[Saints Alive]

Unless someone else tells them which means you cannot be open about your issues to anyone without swearing them to secrecy....not a healthy way to live.

I don't disagree.

[Calm]

I'm tired of bullies and thugs sticking their noses into the doings of churches and private organizations.

When those private organizations are asking for money from the 'bullies and thugs' I think they have a right to question the rules of those organizations.

If the "bullies and thugs" aren't actually contributing to the private organizations, I would agree that they don't really have a right to question the rules.

[Calm]

That wasn't it. But if you'd like to discuss the more salient issues, I will respond to those.

I think his point was if one lives a normal sexual life that involves a partner it is very hard for someone not to become aware of in some way one's sexual orientation even if one doesn't make a point of announcing it. Thus homosexuals may have no intention of making their sexual orientation a 'talking point' but still be exposed simply due to the natural discussions of every day life between friends and acquaintances.

[The Nehor]

I found out why they are delaying. They are testing a pilot program:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/boy-scouts-to-try-out-single-gay-12yearold-before,31194/

[Tacenda]

I honestly thought the reason for the BSA reversing it's stance on allowing gays to join was because of the LDS church making changes and becoming more sympathetic. I guess I had it backwards.

[rockpond]

I honestly thought the reason for the BSA reversing it's stance on allowing gays to join was because of the LDS church making changes and becoming more sympathetic. I guess I had it backwards.

Why conclude that you had it backwards. I still think there is a possibility that your hypothesis is correct.