Porn And Ss Marriage Support

[Ahab]

This is your assumption. It may or may not be true.

Keep in mind that the marriage, itself, is the act of sexual relations. That is the marriage, whether or not they have had a wedding ceremony to sanction their marriage. In other words, even though they haven't had a wedding ceremony to sanction their marriage relationship, they have already been married by coming together into one, in that way.

Looking up the word marriage in a dictionary may help some. The way the word marriage is used to refer to a marriage relationship is only one of the ways the word marriage can be used and applied. When male and female plumbing pipes come together they're married.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Pornography is notoriously difficult to define. Porne graphein originally meant "writing about prostitutes", and unlike porne, pro statuere, "before-stand" isn't even etymologically connected to being paid for sex, but rather for being publicly "exposed to lust", which of course depends on culture-dependent definitions of what is "public" and "private", and what is considered "lustful" in a derogatory sense. Personally, I'm far more concerned about people being taken advantage of against their will; human trafficking and coerced sex is far more worrisome to me than some people watching other consenting adults do something pleasurable with their bodies.

On an LDS board, we might remember that some people consider dressing immodestly ( = sleeveless shirts?) equivalent to becoming pornography, and who defines what "immodest" is? Are National Geographic photos of African tribes "immodest" "pornography"? I've been told many times that I'm a pornographer myself because I paint nudes -- the assumption being that nudity = pornography, and that pornography = Bad Thing To Be Ashamed Of in the first place. (Were Adam and Eve supposed to be ashamed of their nakedness? Was Isaiah, when God told him to wander around nude for a few years like some Hindus still do?)

Let's not forget that the archetypal "traditional" family has been far different than the 1950's American ideal that we seem to fixate on. (Familia comes from famulus, which means "servant", and isn't attested as the specific name for being "connected by blood" until the 1660s, which of course sets us on the trail back to the economic systems that arose during the agricultural revolution 12,000 years ago and the rise of private property.) Polygamy is certainly "non-traditional" when compared to the hypocritical veneer of monogamous chastity in Victorian England.

Look, the fact is that every sexual orientation we can classify predates modern media by hundreds of thousands of years. (Blaming Hollywood, a community that didn't even exist until after the 1870's, for evolutionary imperatives? Really?) Wearing business suits doesn't change the fact that we're basically bonobos.

[Calm]

Keep in mind that the marriage, itself, is the act of sexual relations. That is the marriage, whether or not they have had a wedding ceremony to sanction their marriage. In other words, even though they haven't had a wedding ceremony to sanction their marriage relationship, they have already been married by coming together into one, in that way.

Looking up the word marriage in a dictionary may help some. The way the word marriage is used to refer to a marriage relationship is only one of the ways the word marriage can be used and applied. When male and female plumbing pipes come together they're married.

Totally irrelevant to my comments.

[why me]

This is your assumption. It may or may not be true.

If I read the report right (which I didn't the first time around) if they are just looking at men who watch porn in comparison to those who don't, they have only established a correlation not a causation. Unless they did a study measuring before and after viewing porn attitudes, all they have done is shown that men who watch porn are more accepting of SS marriage, not the cause(s) of that acceptance.

I don't think that I am making an assumption. Men who enjoy lesbian porn tend to view it as a natural act between two women. And if these men were against such same sex marriage before their porn viewing, they would be more in favor of it after watching such porn. The producers of such porn are successful because they tend to show sensitivity in such porn. Something that hardly ever occurs in straight porn.

[Ahab]

(Blaming Hollywood, a community that didn't even exist until after the 1870's, for evolutionary imperatives? Really?)

In this day and age, yes. I wasn't going as far back into history as you did.

I remember when my Grandmother said Hollywood was responsible for a lot of that and I thought she was off her rocker, but now I know what she was talking about, and agree, even if they're not in that little municipal division of the Los Angeles area.

They're not the originators of the stuff, but they spread it around through all of the televisions and movie screens displaying their wares.

[Ahab]

Totally irrelevant to my comments.

No, totally relevant.

Watching female ss sexual relations, continuously, softens their attitude toward female same sex marriage and relations, which is what they continue to watch, otherwise they wouldn't continue to watch it.

Or maybe you meant something else by saying they weren't being softened???

Sheesh. People don't continue to watch things they are strongly against.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Ahab

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

But if it is just about being exposed to non traditional sexual situations, then watching sitcoms of various types of non traditional families might do the same thing.

Agreed

[RobertAC]

The problem occurs behind the scenes when the filming ends. It is harmful for the actors and actresses involved in the business. Many end up on drugs, low self esteem and quite a few commit suicide. And it is a very exploitative business toward the male and female performers.

Point taken. While the effect of porn is not universally negative, it has been negative for a number of performers.

[RobertAC]

Porn in and of itself is nontraditional so if exposure to nontraditional scenarios opens up one to thinking in nontraditional ways in general, then it could have that effect.

At this point, I would like to see them run comparison studies using nonpornigraphic nontraditional and nonsexual nontraditional relationships and nonrelationship nontraditional scenarios to see if it is just the opening the mind to a new way of thinking or whether it is more tied to actual content.

The way the report is presented makes it appear that porn was used not because it was the only valid nontraditional sexual situation available for viewing....because it isn't, but for the headlines that would be created by tying porn to SS marriage.

That was my feeling too, and the comparison studies you suggest would be good follow-ups. It seemed to be a pretty big jump to link porn with support for same sex marriage.

[daz2]

Here is the abstract of the study results:

Many consider same-sex marriage the civil rights issue of our time. Although support is on the rise, there are some Americans who oppose same-sex marriage. Heterosexual males are a demographic group particularly likely to oppose same-sex marriage. Mass media and education are often thought of as important agents of socialization in American culture. Pornography in particular is a platform often discussed in terms of its impact on males’ sexual attitudes. This study used nationally representative three-wave longitudinal data gathered from adult U.S. males to examine the over-time interplay between pornography consumption, education, and support for same-sex marriage. Support for same-sex marriage did not prospectively predict pornography consumption, but pornography consumption did prospectively predict support for same-sex marriage. Education was also positively associated with support for same-sex marriage. Scientific and social implications of these findings are discussed.

(Emphasis added.)

http://crx.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/01/09/0093650212471558.abstract

[Calm]

Here is the abstract of the study results:

(Emphasis added.)

http://crx.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/01/09/0093650212471558.abstract

Thank you for finding the study, always much, much better than relying on newspaper interpretations.

It has been too long since my stat classes, will have to talk to husband to see three wave longitudinal studies deal with correlation or causation....unless there is someone knowledgable in such things reading this thread.

Edited February 4, 2013 by calmoriah

[california boy]

Many consider same-sex marriage the civil rights issue of our time. Although support is on the rise, there are some Americans who oppose same-sex marriage. Heterosexual males are a demographic group particularly likely to oppose same-sex marriage. Mass media and education are often thought of as important agents of socialization in American culture. Pornography in particular is a platform often discussed in terms of its impact on males’ sexual attitudes. This study used nationally representative three-wave longitudinal data gathered from adult U.S. males to examine the over-time interplay between pornography consumption, education, and support for same-sex marriage. Support for same-sex marriage did not prospectively predict pornography consumption, but pornography consumption did prospectively predict support for same-sex marriage. Education was also positively associated with support for same-sex marriage. Scientific and social implications of these findings are discussed.

Personally I think this is one of those headline grabbing studies that has little scientific value. For example, we know that people who are less religious tend to be in favor of ss marriage. We also know that people who are less religious also watch more porn. So it is possible that the demographic of those watching porn just tend to be less religious and has nothing to do with how much porn is watched.

The study also indicates that the more educated a person is, the more in favor they are of ss marriage. Is the education what is causing them to approve of gay marriage, or are they more likely to be less swayed by the typical emotional or religious arguments against gay marriage and more likely to rely on actual legal reasons for supporting or opposing gay marriage. I find that the more a person understands the legal issues, the more supportive they are of gay marriage. As you read through the Prop 8 briefs, there is very little legal reasons for being opposed to gay marriage other than religious beliefs and tradition.

[cdowis]

I find it important to separate the findings (data) from the conclusions of the researchers, especially in sociological research. When you read their interpretations of the data, you are entering the baloney zone.

I would conclude that watching porn desensitizes the feelings of intimacy with animal instincts. Sex as an end unto itself, rather than as an important aspect of an intimate, significant relationship. This study indicates that, for the most part, SS marriage is all about physical relationships, with a desire to legitimatize and make it socially acceptable -- just like pornography. Both have little to do with family relationships in an intimate relationship.

That's my personal view of this study.

[Calm]

Thank you for finding the study, always much, much better than relying on newspaper interpretations.

It has been too long since my stat classes, will have to talk to husband to see three wave longitudinal studies deal with correlation or causation....unless there is someone knowledgable in such things reading this thread.

According to husband, these types of studies deal with correlation but can indicate with stronger and stronger data, possible correlations.

IOW, at this point it doesn't say much about cause and effect so you can pick for yourself what you think is causing the correlation, just don't expect others to accept your conclusions as anything more than assumptions.

[thesometimesaint]

Porn nontraditional? It goes back about 7,000 years and maybe 37,000 years.

[Damien the Leper]

Porn is a gross and sad addiction. I took a Sociology of Human Sexuality class that studied pornography. I kinda wish I had never taken the class but since that class I haven't gone near the stuff. I don't care to be desensitized to intimate relations best shared between two committed persons.

[thesometimesaint]

Porn is a gross and sad addiction. I took a Sociology of Human Sexuality class that studied pornography. I kinda wish I had never taken the class but since that class I haven't gone near the stuff. I don't care to be desensitized to intimate relations best shared between two committed persons.

It has its uses within a very narrow range of sexual dysfunction therapy, but when it becomes an addiction I agree.

[Damien the Leper]

It has its uses within a very narrow range of sexual dysfunction therapy, but when it becomes an addiction I agree.

I sincerely hope that this is not, one of possibly many, silly affirmations for aversion and/or reparative therapy that is promoted by "ex-gay minitries" and their like minded ilk.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Valentinus

[thesometimesaint]

I sincerely hope that this is not, one of possibly many, silly affirmations for aversion and/or reparative therapy that is promoted by "ex-gay minitries" and their like minded ilk.

No; Quite the opposite. Some forms of ED and psychosomatic aversion to intimacy respond well mild forms of pornographic images.

[Damien the Leper]

No; Quite the opposite. Some forms of ED and psychosomatic aversion to intimacy respond well mild forms of pornographic images.

Hmmm...I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for the education.

[RobertAC]

Porn is a gross and sad addiction. I took a Sociology of Human Sexuality class that studied pornography. I kinda wish I had never taken the class but since that class I haven't gone near the stuff. I don't care to be desensitized to intimate relations best shared between two committed persons.

It can be a psychological addiction, and one that does affect intimate relations with someone else in a negative way. However, most consumers of porn are not adversely affected by it. Lots of studies on this point.

And interesting side note: I read that producers of gay adult porn estimate that about a third of their consumers are people in heterosexual relationships. Obviously, I do not trust gay porn producers to be scientifically accurate with their numbers, but even if a close fraction of that amount were true, that would suggest that people use porn as a way of vicariously acting out fantasies that they do not believe they could engage in in real life.

[Damien the Leper]

And interesting side note: I read that producers of gay adult porn estimate that about a third of their consumers are people in heterosexual relationships. Obviously, I do not trust gay porn producers to be scientifically accurate with their numbers, but even if a close fraction of that amount were true, that would suggest that people use porn as a way of vicariously acting out fantasies that they do not believe they could engage in in real life.

Awkward!

[pogi]

While the effect of porn is not universally negative, it has been negative for a number of performers.

The degradation of woman to mere objects of lust is not universally negative? I seem to remember Christ saying something about lusting after a woman and committing adultery with her in our hearts. Are you going to try and convince me that men are not lusting and committing adultery with woman in their hearts when they view porn? Whether a person is addicted or not, it is sin, and sin is universally negative. It is not negative simply because it is addictive, there are many other consequences.

[The Nehor]

The degradation of woman to mere objects of lust is not universally negative?

It led to Rahab surviving Jericho.

[pogi]

However, most consumers of porn are not adversely affected by it. Lots of studies on this point.

I'm guessing these studies did not ask their wives how they feet about it. What about the adverse affects on them?