Women Didnt Pray In Sacrament Meeting Until 1978?

[bu11fr0g]

I know they didnt where i was at and wikipedia lists this as the date. I remember thinking how very strange it felt but it was normal feeling after a couple months. Does anyone know how the change happened? Why did it not happen in gen conf too?

[Duncan]

how does whoever wrote the entry on wikipedia even know this? do they have access to every single prayer person in every single sacrament mtg ever given since the beginning?

[Buzzard]

Don't remember the date, but a classic tradition vs. doctrine case. Someone asked why not, and the brethren said there was no reason at all not to.

[cinepro]

I'm pretty sure it's just because they were never asked.

[gkearney]

Growing up women always prayed in church. Maybe we were just a bunch of rebels or maybe we never got the word that they shouldn't.

[mfbukowski]

Growing up women always prayed in church. Maybe we were just a bunch of rebels or maybe we never got the word that they shouldn't.

Of course we all know you are 14.

[Paddy]

Anecdotally I was in the Bishopric from 1995 - 2000 and we had a letter from either the Stake Presidency or the Area Presidency (can't remember which now) instructing us that only men could open sacrament meeting, but a man or a women could close the meeting. The justification for this practice was that the Sacrament meeting was a priesthood meeting and could only be opened by someone holding the Priesthood. Please don't CFR on this, I don't have the letter, but I sure remember it because I thought it was very strange at the time...

I think the church has been plagued by, what some would consider, sexist practices over our history. I think we are making progress and trying to detach from some redundant practices.

Paddy

[gkearney]

Anecdotally I was in the Bishopric from 1995 - 2000 and we had a letter from either the Stake Presidency or the Area Presidency (can't remember which now) instructing us that only men could open sacrament meeting, but a man or a women could close the meeting. The justification for this practice was that the Sacrament meeting was a priesthood meeting and could only be opened by someone holding the Priesthood. Please don't CFR on this, I don't have the letter, but I sure remember it because I thought it was very strange at the time...

I think the church has been plagued by, what some would consider, sexist practices over our history. I think we are making progress and trying to detach from some redundant practices.

Paddy

That must be a local thing because it sure does not happen where I live in Australia. By the way I'm a great deal older than 14.

[Calm]

That must be a local thing because it sure does not happen where I live in Australia. By the way I'm a great deal older than 14.

My memory says that men and women prayed in the past, then for a short time the policy from SLC became only men praying, then only men opening Sacrament Meeting and then eventually back to what it was originally and now making sure that couples are not asked to pray at the same time as was common in the past so as not to make an issue of singles praying, etc. I may try to document this later.

[Paddy]

That must be a local thing because it sure does not happen where I live in Australia. By the way I'm a great deal older than 14.

I suspected it was probably a local thing. Probably had some justification behind it. It soon feel out of favour. However I have heard of this type of thing being implemented elsewhere.

[Paddy]

My memory says that men and women prayed in the past, then for a short time the policy from SLC became only men praying, then only men opening Sacrament Meeting and then eventually back to what it was originally and now making sure that couples are not asked to pray at the same time as was common in the past so as not to make an issue of singles praying, etc. I may try to document this later.

Calmoriah

I would be interested on any info on this.

[canard78]

As I'm here and I love a treasure hunt...

Prayers in Sacrament and Priesthood Meetings.

Attention is called to the following instruction which appeared in the July-August 1967 Priesthood Bulletin.

The First Presidency recommends that only those who bear the Melchizedek Priesthood or Aaronic Priesthood be invited to offer the opening and closing prayers in sacrament meetings, including fast meetings. This also applies to priesthood meetings.

Ensign August 1975: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1975/08/news-of-the-church?lang=eng

I can't find a link to the original 1967 version as it was sent as a letter, but I found it elsewhere in the second comment on the blog.

It was established by a 1967 Priesthood Bulletin and was included in the 1968 General “Handbook of Instruction (no. 20, pg. 44):

L. Prayers in Church Meetings

Prayers in all Church meetings should be brief, simple, and given as led by the spirit by the one who is voice. Their content should pertain to the particular matter at hand.

Brethren holding the Melchizedek or Aaronic Priesthood should offer the prayers in sacrament meetings, including fast and testimony meetings. Those praying should use the pronoun forms of Thy, Thee, Thine, Thou in addressing the Lord.

(Anonymous, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints General Handbook of Instructions, no. 20 (First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, 1968), 44.)

It was changed in 1978:

“The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve have determined that there is no scriptural prohibition against sisters offering prayers in sacrament meetings. It was therefore decided that it is permissible for sisters to offer prayers in any meetings they attend, including sacrament meetings, Sunday School meetings, and stake conferences. Relief Society visiting teachers may offer prayers in homes that they enter in fulfilling visiting teaching assignments.”

http://www.lds.org/ensign/1978/11/news-of-the-church?lang=eng

I can't find anything online about men praying first except this 'hearsay':

On November 14, 1999, Elder Brough said that a few weeks before his death, President Ezra Taft Benson made a comment about prayers that was misinterpreted by a few to mean that only men could open meetings. Unfortunately, some of those disseminated this information. Although this was officially retracted “within weeks” it had spread far enough to become “policy” to some who had heard various versions of it. Elder Brough was “adamant” that it was not policy, was not ever given as policy from the first presidency, and simply wasn’t true. He said that the church policy is that it doesn’t matter who gives prayers…just as it is written in the handbook. He then asked that the message be disseminated by the high counci throughout the stake so that no further misunderstandings would occur—which is how I came to hear the information.

http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/05/not-letting-women-open-sacrament-meeting-redux/

When I was branch president a couple of years ago our Branch Clerk was a lovely man in his 80s and a former Temple President. He kept assigning a man first and a woman second. When I asked him why, he said the same, 'it's a priesthood responsibility to give the invocation, a woman can do the benediction.'

When I showed him this from the handbook he respectfully said "very well, I'll start asking the sisters too then." I love that man. One of the most humble I know.

18.5 Prayers in Church Meetings

Men and women may offer both opening and closing prayers in Church meetings.

Prayers should be brief, simple, and spoken as directed by the Spirit. All members are encouraged to respond with an audible amen at the end of a prayer.

Members should express respect for Heavenly Father by using the special language of prayer that is appropriate for the language they are speaking. The language of prayer has different forms in different languages. In some languages, the intimate or familiar words are used only in addressing family and very close friends. Other languages have forms of address that express great respect. The principle, however, is the same: members should pray in words that speakers of the language associate with love, respect, reverence, and closeness. In English, for example, members should use the pronouns Thee, Thy, Thine, and Thou when addressing Heavenly Father.

Members of the bishopric should avoid the pattern of having a husband and wife pray in the same meeting. Such a pattern might convey an unintentional message of exclusion to those who are single. Members who are not often called upon should be included among those who are invited to pray. As needed, a member of the bishopric may caution those who pray not to sermonize or pray at great length.

The person who offers a prayer should not be asked to read a scripture aloud before the prayer.

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/meetings-in-the-church?lang=eng#185

Handbook 2: Administering the Church

[Alan]

It was before 1978.

I joined the church in late 1974 and I believe the practice had just changed.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Alan

[bluebell]

Anecdotally I was in the Bishopric from 1995 - 2000 and we had a letter from either the Stake Presidency or the Area Presidency (can't remember which now) instructing us that only men could open sacrament meeting, but a man or a women could close the meeting. The justification for this practice was that the Sacrament meeting was a priesthood meeting and could only be opened by someone holding the Priesthood. Please don't CFR on this, I don't have the letter, but I sure remember it because I thought it was very strange at the time...

I think the church has been plagued by, what some would consider, sexist practices over our history. I think we are making progress and trying to detach from some redundant practices.

Paddy

I was just graduating high school and starting college around this time and i remember that this practice (of no sisters opening sacrament meeting) became a policy in our ward (in northern wyoming) as well. I mostly know because my mother was friends with a sister who struggled with the idea of it and i remember them talking about it.

It seemed pretty short lived though as i don't remember anything about it after that initial introduction.

[JangoPOW!]

About 6 or 7 years ago my Branch President in the Salt Lake Valley was very adamant that women must only pray to close the meeting, never to open it. It was one of those "unwritten order of things" things. When I, his exec sec, made a last minute prayer swap due to a husband coming late to sac mtg. after his wife, he [the BP] became very alarmed about this. That was the first I had heard of it, but a few years later when I asked around in the COB (where I worked, and where there are high-concentrations of bishopric old-hands to swap lore) the response was that a) it's definitely a well-known part of the unwritten order and b) it started with President Benson, who felt very strongly about this issue, but that Pres. Hinckley "didn't care."

Edited February 1, 2013 by JangoPOW!

[Buzzard]

I seem to remember another GA offering the opinion that a holder of the priesthood should CLOSE the meeting, but that it was OK for a sister to open it. Ah, go figger....

Also, anyone remember if sisters offered opening/closing prayers for Sunday School during the period before 1978, back when SS was a 90 minute meeting in the middle of the day. The 1967 guideline only specifies Sacrament and Priesthood meetings.

[chochmah]

I have a close relative who was a member of a stake presidency in the South West approximately six years ago when a visiting seventy came (whom I could name). In visiting with the stake presidency he told the story of a general authority in a monthly meeting of General authorities in the temple giving instruction and as an aside mentioned the policy of not letting sisters offer invocations in Sacrament meeting. President Hinckley interrupted him and asked him to repeat that policy. He did, to which President Hickley responded, "Who ever came up with a cockamamie idea like that?"

[Thinking]

I remember the change. As soon as it was changed, couples were asked to give the opening and closing prayers.

[Calm]

Also, anyone remember if sisters offered opening/closing prayers for Sunday School during the period before 1978, back when SS was a 90 minute meeting in the middle of the day.

We did in Junior Sunday School

It appears to me that the 1967 established a new rule of restriction which would accord with my memory (being tenish at the time). Will have to ask more knowledge FAIR members about my memory's accuracy.

[sunstoned]

Anecdotally I was in the Bishopric from 1995 - 2000 and we had a letter from either the Stake Presidency or the Area Presidency (can't remember which now) instructing us that only men could open sacrament meeting, but a man or a women could close the meeting. The justification for this practice was that the Sacrament meeting was a priesthood meeting and could only be opened by someone holding the Priesthood. Please don't CFR on this, I don't have the letter, but I sure remember it because I thought it was very strange at the time...

I think the church has been plagued by, what some would consider, sexist practices over our history. I think we are making progress and trying to detach from some redundant practices.

Paddy

My father was a Bishop at about the same time, and I remember him commenting on this letter.

[Paddy]

My father was a Bishop at about the same time, and I remember him commenting on this letter.

Thanks for the verification....Was this in the US or was this in Australia...?? Either way I think this sort of thing comes and goes depending on who is in leadership at the time...interesting stuff though, to see how attitudes and ideas change, etc....

Paddy

[Stargazer]

I know they didnt where i was at and wikipedia lists this as the date. I remember thinking how very strange it felt but it was normal feeling after a couple months. Does anyone know how the change happened? Why did it not happen in gen conf too?

I remember when it happened. I was a member of the Ft. Lewis Ward at the time. They read the policy change over the pulpit -- there was this circular that was mailed to bishoprics and stake presidencies, and it contained the change. No reason was given, just that. At the time the change still required that the opening prayer be given by a priesthood holder, and the benediction could be male or female. Later it was changed to omit the requirement for a priesthood holder to open. I don't remember when this happened.

I think some wards still observe the priesthood holder invocation rule -- ours seemed to, until I noticed it a few years ago and informed the executive secretary (who in our ward is responsible for assigning prayers for sacrament meeting). He started asking sisters to do the invocation occasionally after that. After he was released, the new executive secretary now seems to ask sisters about half the time. Last month every single invocation was done by a sister, I noticed.

I'm glad it doesn't matter any longer.

[Stargazer]

Growing up women always prayed in church. Maybe we were just a bunch of rebels or maybe we never got the word that they shouldn't.

It is possible that you just didn't happen to notice that only priesthoodl holders prayed in sacrament meeting. No other meeting had a policy respecting formal prayers.

[gkearney]

My dad was bishop and later in stake leadership. I have a clear memory of women giving opening prayers in sacrament.

[Stargazer]

My dad was bishop and later in stake leadership. I have a clear memory of women giving opening prayers in sacrament.

Well, Australia is a special case, then. It is fitting, I suppose, since God created Australia using all His leftovers after the Creation.

Or so I have heard, anyway.

One of these days I will visit your country. I have long admired it from afar.