Broken Heart And Contrite Spirit-How Do You Get That?

[Duncan]

In the Scriptures, Psalms 51 comes to mind we are asked to offer the Lord a broken Heart and a contrite spirit. I get a broken heart but what is a contrite spirit and how do we get a broken heart and a contrite spirit?

[Garden Girl]

A contrite spirit is when one truly feel remorse... deep remorse and sorrow ... for something you have done. Remorse that goes to your deepest core so that you want to repent and never do that something again. My broken heart is more a knowledge that I could do/was capable of doing something... a hurting... and then comes the remorse...

GG

[bluebell]

When I think of a broken heart i think of someone who has godly sorrrow for their sins, and who is willing to submit to whatever is needed in order to repent of them. When I think of someone who has a contrite spirit, i think of someone who is humble and teachable.

I think we only gain these attributes as we constantly pray for them and work toward becoming more Christ like in our responses to every situation in life.

[Kevin Christensen]

I approach it like this:

The sacrifice of a broken heart involves putting at risk what we desire. The sacrifice of a contrite spirit involves putting at risk what we think, what seems reasonable. These two sacrifices correspond directly to the figures of Fear and Desire that everywhere stand as temple guardians in the ancient world. Fear is what we think. Desire is what we want. They represent the temptations of Buddha, the illusions of this world. I once studied over seventy reasons that biblical peoples gave to justify the rejection of biblical prophets. Eventually, I realized that they all boil down to people saying, "It's not what I want. It's not what I think." That is, it is not what I desire and not what I fear. If we refuse to even risk what we think and what we desire, via the experiment and nurture process, we cannot pass by our own limits and illusions and thereby enter the Real.

http://maxwellinstit...22&num=2&id=810

I had a friend who said of her experience in LDS society, "If it's the truth, why isn't there more truth in it?" The implicit definition of truth that she was using was "If its truth, why isn't it live up to my personal ideals, what I want from people and from God?" And "if its the truth, why doesn't it live up to my present concept of perfection?" given the unspoken assumption that I am perfectly capable of judging and recognizing perfection right now.

My own approach, I realized, sees truth a knowledge of things as they are, as they were, and as they are to come, that is, what is "real." So my approach has a built in expectation towards what is real, with all the messiness that reality involves in human behavior and learning Asking whether Joseph Smith's revelations are perfect, or whether they meet my personal desires, is very different that asking whether they are real. In testing the question of perfection, only imperfection provides the answer, and any imperfection will do. In testing the question of what I see as ideal, as satisfying my personal desires, any frustration I feel provides the answer. But acceptance of the real means that neither my preconceptions regarding what is, nor my desires matter as much as correspondence with what is real. So when I truly seek what is real, I must be willing to sacrifice what I think and what I want. So offer up, a contrite spirit, one that is teachable, one that does not protest, "That can't be right." And I offer up a broken heart,, one that is willing to let go of my personal desires in favor of God wants of me. That does not mean unthinking, uncritical surrender, but a willingness make the offering, passing through processes that put my heart's desire and my pride in my current knowledge at risk. Proving contraries, wrestling, performing experiments, to see what is so, how my understanding my change, how my sense of what is most desirable might change.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

Edited January 19, 2013 by Kevin Christensen

[Storm Rider]

Kevin, I think it may actually be a complete surrender to God. We willingly forfeit our wants, desires, even our reason i.e. what we think is right and proper, in a desire to serve God and to humbly seek his guidance and direction. The object is to get to the point where pride has no purchase in our heart, mind, and soul. We submit fully and completely to God's will for us; the temptations of this carnal state begin to fall away and have no allure to us for we have begun to constantly seek after the presence of the Spirit in all things. Just some of my thoughts.

[CV75]

In the Scriptures, Psalms 51 comes to mind we are asked to offer the Lord a broken Heart and a contrite spirit. I get a broken heart but what is a contrite spirit and how do we get a broken heart and a contrite spirit?

For me a broken heart is a tamed heart. It can sorrow and rejoice. It can confess fault and testify of truth. It can lose life and gain it, receive chastisement and shine forth. Likewise, a contrite spirit is one that opens its heart to be tamed by the Lord.

Sometimes our spirits are compelled to be contrite through challenges and suffering, at which point a broken heart is evidenced by loss, shame, fear, etc. and we seek relief as Alma the Younger did. Sometimes our hearts are already somewhat tamed, at which point we seek and knock and the Lord answers, like Enos did.

[Garden Girl]

When I think of a broken heart i think of someone who has godly sorrrow for their sins, and who is willing to submit to whatever is needed in order to repent of them. When I think of someone who has a contrite spirit, i think of someone who is humble and teachable.

I think we only gain these attributes as we constantly pray for them and work toward becoming more Christ like in our responses to every situation in life.

And I think they go hand in hand... are entwined... that's why we speak of a "broken heart and contrite spirit" together...

GG

[Duncan]

is it possible to have a broken spirit?

[Tacenda]

is it possible to have a broken spirit?

This reminds me of when they say you need to "break a horse" or their spirit of freedom. So sad.

[CV75]

is it possible to have a broken spirit?

Not in that "God don't make junk. "Man is spirit" (D&C 93:33), and spirits can lose light through disobedience, but they are not broken and none are beyond reach of redemption (having a body) in the resurrection. I don't see a spirit that has lost light and agency as broken, just proud. I think there are many maladies in the mortal human makeup that are not necessarily a function of one's heart or spirit, but are often mistaken to be. I consider these to be broken bodies, minds, etc. but not broken hearts or spirits (John 9:3).

[williamsmith]

A broken heart and contrite spirit is extreme and deep humility and teachableness.

It is when you continually learn despites your views. It is when you are humble before others, and before God, willing to accept new things, to see new ways of looking at things, but always going back to the source for a sure foundation of good and right.

[KevinG]

I usually obtain a broken heart and contrite spirit after a karmic butt kicking. (I'm not sure that is what you are asking however).

[pogi]

The Bible often speaks of a circumcised heart, is this the same thing as a broken heart? I have never fully understood the symbolism of a circumcised heart. Any ideas?

[volgadon]

The Bible often speaks of a circumcised heart, is this the same thing as a broken heart? I have never fully understood the symbolism of a circumcised heart. Any ideas?

Fruit also had a "foreskin." Meaning, there was a part that had to be cleared and purified before eating it. In other words, circumcision is removing an impure elelement.

[pogi]

Fruit also had a "foreskin." Meaning, there was a part that had to be cleared and purified before eating it. In other words, circumcision is removing an impure elelement.

Thanks for sharing, that is interesting.

Is it true that Jews circumcise their children on the 8th day after birth? Is there any symbolism to that day in reference to the creation. Meaning, the day after the Lord rested and man began to transgress the law?

Could the circumcision of the heart have symbology related to post-creation and represent Adam's coming out of hiding, where Adam came out in the full light of exposure to the Lord? The foreskin representing hiding, impurity, and reduced sensitivity to the Lord. The circumcision itself being performed by another and not ourselves, possibly representing Christ's atonement which removes impurities as we come out of hiding.

Am I reading way too far into this?

[savedbygrace]

The whole of psalm 51 is about recogntion of sins and where that places you in relation to God: under his just condemnation, the sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spirit is the recognition of that state of condemnation and what that really means. The psalmist accepts that he needs God's grace to create a clean heart and a new spirit, this he cannot do alone. He needs God's loving forgiveness that true contriton brings so that he will not deprived of Gods Holy Spirit who convicts of sin and sustains us in life

[pogi]

We are taught that the sacrifice of animals and shedding of blood has been replaced by "a new" sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spirit. http://www.lds.org/manual/aaronic-priesthood-manual-2/lesson-19-a-broken-heart-and-a-contrite-spirit?lang=eng

To my surprise, after reading the Old Testament for the first time, this teaching of the sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spirit is littered throughout the Old Testament. Why are we taught that it is a new sacrifice that replaced the old sacrifice, when they were actually both practiced and taught at the same time? It doesn't seem like it replaced anything, we just got rid of one form of sacrifice and kept the other.

[savedbygrace]

The sacrifice of animals as required in the Mosaic Law, has been superseded by the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ, the once and for all sacrifice for our sins. The Mosaic law and animal sacrifice could not remove sin once and for all, hence the need for repeted sacrifice for the sins of the high priest and the people. We now have one high priest in Our Lord who inetrcedes for us before the Father

[Ahab]

In the Scriptures, Psalms 51 comes to mind we are asked to offer the Lord a broken Heart and a contrite spirit. I get a broken heart but what is a contrite spirit and how do we get a broken heart and a contrite spirit?

As to what it is, I think of it as a NOT cocky attitude, or a feeling of entitlement. I make a conscious effort to put my mind in a place where I realize I've made mistakes and I really need God's help to make good decisions to make my life good and continually better, which I know he can help me to do.

The way to NOT get there is to mope around or put on a pouty face as if I need to look like a complete and total wretch, which I suppose I once was, technically. I believe we need to be serious about wanting to make ourselves better, which requires that we be in an attitude of wanting to learn while paying attention to anything God, our Father, may want to teach us. That involves a lot of serious prayer time, which we can do as we go about our day thinking the best thoughts we can while realizing that any good thoughts we get are coming from God as he tries to help us become a better person.

I also think it helps to thank him inwardly to express my gratitude when he gives good thoughts to me as he does, rather than thinking I'm just that good or intelligent on my own. He really doesn't like it when I get cocky.

[pogi]

I have been studying about the heart in scripture a lot lately and am fascinated by it's appearance in all of the central teachings of the gospel including the necessity of the sacrifice of a broken heart in order to obtain the baptism of fire, Zion (the pure in heart), the great commandment to love God and others with all of our heart, etc. We are taught to circumcise our hearts, we are told that God's law will be written on the "fleshy tablets of our hearts" But what is the heart exactly? How does it differ from our mind and spirit? The scriptures seem to use the terms "mind" and "heart" interchangeably at times while using them with separate and distinct meanings at other times, including the command to love with all of our heart and mind.

Here are some other notable scriptures that I have been studying which highlight the central figure or symbol of the heart in the gospel:

Proverbs 4:23 King James Version:

“Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.”

New International Version:

“Above all else, guard your heart for it is the wellspring of life.”

New Living Translation:

“Above all else, guard your heart, for it determines the course of your life.”

3 Nephi 9:20

And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost

Proverbs 3:5

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Proverbs 16:9

A man's HEART deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

Proverbs 22:17

Bow down thine ear, and hear the words of the wise, and apply thine HEART unto my knowledge.

Jeremiah 4:4

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings.

Jeremiah 17:9

The HEART [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Jeremiah 17:10

I the LORD search the heart, try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, [and] according to the fruit of his doings.

Jeremiah 24:7

And I will give them an HEART to know me, that I [am] the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

Jeremiah 29:13

And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Matthew 5:8

Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Matthew 6:21

For where your treasure is, there will your HEART be also.

Matthew 12:35

A good man out of the good treasure of the HEART bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Matthew 13:15

For this people's HEART is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Romans 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

And one of my favorite quotes to finish it off:

“All the same,” said the Scarecrow, "I shall ask for brains instead of a heart; for a fool would not know what to do with a heart if he had one.” “I shall take the heart,” returned the Tin man; "for brains do not make one happy, and happiness is the best thing in the world." (L Frank Baum, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)

Edited January 15, 2013 by pogi

[Ahab]

Our mind is actually a reference to our spirit, which is what gives life to our body and where our thoughtrs actually reside. We are spirits, clothed in bodies, and when we die (mortally) our spirit/mind will remain separate from our body until we are resurrected.

The heart is usually a reference to our passions and feelings, also associated with our spirit because that's where "we" really are, but more to "how" we feel about things inwardly than just "what" we think about things.

Another way of saying we should love God with all of our heart and mind is with all of our feelings and thoughts.

[CV75]

But what is the heart exactly? How does it differ from our mind and spirit?

I think the heart is that new frontier between the mind of the spirit and the mind of the body, created once the two come together in mortality. It is something that did not exist in the pre-existence. It allows the physical mind to follow the dictates of the mind of spirit (which mind we always had, since "Man is spirit"), and the spiritual mind to gain experience from the physical mind (which we hadn't had before and which we have to learn to tame). Once the body's eternal element and eternal spirit are inseparably connected, the heart that was once a new frontier is now the mind of a new and everlasting being.

[Ahab]

I think the heart is that new frontier between the mind of the spirit and the mind of the body, created once the two come together in mortality. It is something that did not exist in the pre-existence. It allows the physical mind to follow the dictates of the mind of spirit (which mind we always had, since "Man is spirit"), and the spiritual mind to gain experience from the physical mind (which we hadn't had before and which we have to learn to tame). Once the body's eternal element and eternal spirit are inseparably connected, the heart that was once a new frontier is now the mind of a new and everlasting being.

Beautiful. Another way of saying we didn't have passions and feelings like we do now that we have a body, which now is mortal but will become immortal. I like the thoughts and feelings I get from just thinking about that.

[volgadon]

Thanks for sharing, that is interesting.

Is it true that Jews circumcise their children on the 8th day after birth?

Yes, it is even permissible to break the Sabbath if that is the 8th day.

Is there any symbolism to that day in reference to the creation. Meaning, the day after the Lord rested and man began to transgress the law?

There is, but the typical explanation (Such as Alshekh's) is that when Eve transgressed she was contaminated by the serpent, and Adam became impure as a result of his contact with Eve, and that is why women are cursed with menstrual blood, which renders one impure for seven days. The Maharal of Prague, though, was of the opinion that circumcision represents man's overcoming the natural world, represented by the seven days of creation.

Could the circumcision of the heart have symbology related to post-creation and represent Adam's coming out of hiding, where Adam came out in the full light of exposure to the Lord? The foreskin representing hiding, impurity, and reduced sensitivity to the Lord. The circumcision itself being performed by another and not ourselves, possibly representing Christ's atonement which removes impurities as we come out of hiding.

Am I reading way too far into this?

Adam was believed to have been born (or created) already circumcised.

[pogi]

Yes, it is even permissible to break the Sabbath if that is the 8th day.

There is, but the typical explanation (Such as Alshekh's) is that when Eve transgressed she was contaminated by the serpent, and Adam became impure as a result of his contact with Eve, and that is why women are cursed with menstrual blood, which renders one impure for seven days. The Maharal of Prague, though, was of the opinion that circumcision represents man's overcoming the natural world, represented by the seven days of creation.

Adam was believed to have been born (or created) already circumcised.

Thanks for sharing! I like the Maharal of Prague version better. The whole serpent, menstrual blood, and contamination thing doesn't sit well with me.

Born circumcised huh? How 'bout a belly button?