Why The Need To Do This?

[Tacenda]

I live in Iowa. Women almost always wear skirts or dresses. The few that don't are all converts.

Interesting. I wonder if the RS Pres. or someone will eventually pull them (convert) aside. One of my RS Pres. did mention to the sister's that levi skirts/dresses were inappropiate. Back when they were the rage, especially the dress that you just pull over your head and wear with a shirt, a jumper I believe. My favorite, so comfortable.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Tacenda

[emeliza]

I think a big difference in whether people are okay with the skirt/pants is where you are located. When I wore pants that once, no one else in the ward ever did. I was teaching in RS that day and the RS President got sick and went home. My understanding is that her very conservative counselor asked the Bishop to speak to me. I don't think the Bishop would have pulled me in if he had not been asked as I think it was just as unpleasant for him as it was for me. It was probably double hard for me because I was embarassed and cried in his office for the reprimand. I really think I was under a year of being a member and it was all pretty new for me. He pulled me in during 2nd hour and I had to teach during 3rd hour so I had to pull myself together and not look upset. I remember in my lesson talking about being prepared and how I had not been that day so that is why I wore slacks or something along those lines. The RS counselor wasn't being mean, but I really think it was more her duty to talk to me rather than have the Bishop pull me in since I wasn't doing anything wrong. I am glad though that if that had to happen to someone, it was me. I think if it happened to someone else who was new, they might not have come back.

As for jean skirts and jean jumpers, we have women wear them and it is no big deal.

[Tacenda]

I think a big difference in whether people are okay with the skirt/pants is where you are located. When I wore pants that once, no one else in the ward ever did. I was teaching in RS that day and the RS President got sick and went home. My understanding is that her very conservative counselor asked the Bishop to speak to me. I don't think the Bishop would have pulled me in if he had not been asked as I think it was just as unpleasant for him as it was for me. It was probably double hard for me because I was embarassed and cried in his office for the reprimand. I really think I was under a year of being a member and it was all pretty new for me. He pulled me in during 2nd hour and I had to teach during 3rd hour so I had to pull myself together and not look upset. I remember in my lesson talking about being prepared and how I had not been that day so that is why I wore slacks or something along those lines. The RS counselor wasn't being mean, but I really think it was more her duty to talk to me rather than have the Bishop pull me in since I wasn't doing anything wrong. I am glad though that if that had to happen to someone, it was me. I think if it happened to someone else who was new, they might not have come back.

As for jean skirts and jean jumpers, we have women wear them and it is no big deal.

Thanks for sharing that, if anything the pants were a great object lesson on not being prepared, lol. Seriously though, we need people to not conform to everyone's ideals and show individuality too. Everyone is different and we should just accept people for who they are.

[Calm]

The issue is the basic organisation and order of priesthood authority. It is not asking too much of a bishop to remember that, when he set the deacons quorum president apart, he bestowed upon that boy priesthood keys (one of only four men in the ward to have them)

I don't remember if this detail was given or not, but isn't this assuming that the bishop can find the deacons quorum president or his assistants? What if they weren't available?

[Calm]

Speaking from personal experience, I can say with certainty that getting them right has made all the difference in our ward. I'm in my tenth year here now. When I was first called to be YM president, we had one deacon who was the only boy who regularly attended Mutual. He and two teachers were our only boys who regularly attended church. .....

You have written some very interesting posts about the journey your ward has taken over the years in this area, very inspiring about how important it is to do things the right way even though it takes more thought and effort in the beginning to change things.

[wenglund]

I have written about this years ago on the board, but I wore my nicest slacks once to church and was called into the Bishops office about it. It was not a pleasant experience and I have never worn pants to church on a Sunday again.

On the flip side, several weeks ago a fellow wore a kilt to church here in Provo, though I don't think anyone made a fuss about it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Tacenda]

On the flip side, several weeks ago a fellow wore a kilt to church here in Provo, though I don't think anyone made a fuss about it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Object lesson?

[ERayR]

Seriously though, we need people to not conform to everyone's ideals and show individuality too. Everyone is different and we should just accept people for who they are.

I can agree and that is the way it is as long as modesty and decorum are maintained. It is a sad fact, however, that somebody is always willing to push to the limits.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I don't remember if this detail was given or not, but isn't this assuming that the bishop can find the deacons quorum president or his assistants? What if they weren't available?

If neither the deacons quorum president nor his counsellors are present and performing their duties before sacrament meeting begins, then we have a more fundamental issue. We know what happens in the absence of lower priesthood authority, though. The DQ president presides over his quorum, but the bishopric preside over the Aaronic Priesthood. This is why the handbook states -- more than once -- that the sacrament is blessed and passed 'under the direction of the bishopric'. Clearly, it's in the best interest of the bishopric to invest in making sure that Aaronic priesthood leaders are called, trained, and functioning in the roles.

[Hamba Tuhan]

You have written some very interesting posts about the journey your ward has taken over the years in this area, very inspiring about how important it is to do things the right way even though it takes more thought and effort in the beginning to change things.

About three years ago, the bishop of the neighbouring ward (with which we share our building) stopped me in the car park one night and asked me what the secret to our success with the Aaronic Priesthood was. Would I come do some training in his ward, he wanted to know. I told him we had no secret other than striving to follow the guidelines in the handbook. He didn't seem too pleased with that answer.

Three years later, the boys in his ward are still showing up to the chapel for Mutual not knowing in advance what's happening since they don't actually hold presidency meetings or plan any of their own activities. The quorums all meet together, both on Wednesdays and on Sundays, and the YM presidency just run things. They have about four active boys. To date, none of their young men has stayed active/worthy long enough to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood or serve missions.

Alma 37:46.

[volgadon]

I have written about this years ago on the board, but I wore my nicest slacks once to church and was called into the Bishops office about it. It was not a pleasant experience and I have never worn pants to church on a Sunday again.

One of my first days on my mission, there was district conference and a senior missionary preached what was just one stop short of being a Hellfire ad brimstone sermon, all about how wrong and wicked it was for women to wear jeans or slacks to church. The problem? Right on the very first row there were several recently reactivated members and investigators in jeans... Resulted in a bit of a crisis for reactivation and missionary efforts.

[juliann]

When I grew up in SLC, all girls wore sleeveless shirts and cut off jeans. Fashion was pretty standard and limited back then. I remember some old coot talking in sacrament meeting and complaining how awful it was that bras could be seen under white blouses, I also remember how inappropriate that comment was.

The modesty push is a more recent invention. This is an area where I think members have some responsibility. If arbitrary rules are being set by individuals who are creating destructive rules there is a responsibility to say something. There is blame being placed on "the church" that is the fault of those who will not protect those who do not have large wardrobes or aren't acclimated to the silliness. If these things were being rejected at the local level, it is far less likely that they would gain any traction at higher levels.

I will never forget a YW president who thought it would be such a great idea if she brought big T-shirts so that offending girls could wear them over their" immodest" clothing on activity night. There were enough of us in the meeting to say something a little more well phrased than "are you friggin' crazy?". It stopped there. She also gave a YW's lesson using a torso drawing where she drew lines where sleeves and neck should end. I still laugh about the Sunday her daughter showed up at church wearing a top with short floppy sleeves that were slit from the shoulder seam, which essentially made it a sleeveless top with little wings. It is all subjective.

[wenglund]

At regional conference last week, what struck me most wasn't young ladies wearing short skirts (back when I was a teen they were much shorter) but the young ladies wearing radically tall platform shoes (8 to 10 inch heals). I was amazed how well they were able to maintain balance and gracefully saunter down the halls as well as how comfortable they were towering over their pubescent male friends. It put me in mind of those colorfully dress stilt walkers one may see at parades and fairs.

This, along with a few young adults in jeans and tee shirts provided me an opportunity to readjust my priorities and focus more on what is important--like the messages that were spoken and members gathering at a place where they all wanted and where they may be mutually enriched.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited September 22, 2012 by wenglund

[MorningStar]

A friend of mine has done a good job teaching her daughter about dressing appropriately. One day her daughter was running behind and showed up later dressed rather immodestly, so her mom escorted her out and took her home to change. I'm betting she was mad at her mom, but better her than a YW leader who wants to prevent the other young women from following her example. We had a young woman who dressed like Christina Aguilera and no one knew what to do about it and wished like heck her parents would intervene.

[ERayR]

A friend of mine has done a good job teaching her daughter about dressing appropriately. One day her daughter was running behind and showed up later dressed rather immodestly, so her mom escorted her out and took her home to change. I'm betting she was mad at her mom, but better her than a YW leader who wants to prevent the other young women from following her example. We had a young woman who dressed like Christina Aguilera and no one knew what to do about it and wished like heck her parents would intervene.

This is the reason some try to intervene and set arbitrary standards. There is always someone who pushes the limits of modesty and decorum.

[bluebell]

I have written about this years ago on the board, but I wore my nicest slacks once to church and was called into the Bishops office about it. It was not a pleasant experience and I have never worn pants to church on a Sunday again.

That is so dumb. The bishop should have told that sister who 'turned you in' to worry about the beam in her own eye and not given in to her pressure to have you censured for no reason.

[MorningStar]

That is so dumb. The bishop should have told that sister who 'turned you in' to worry about the beam in her own eye and not given in to her pressure to have you censured for no reason.

When our kids were really little, my husband's white shirts just couldn't stay clean. Two of them got puked on, so he put on his dark colored one and went to a meeting about YM/Scout stuff. The high councilman men said since they were in a priesthood meeting, they should be wearing white shirts. Oh brother! I told him, "Next time show up with carrot barf all over it and see how he likes that!" One time I missed church completely because my son hurled all over my last clean outfit.

Chastizing a new convert is even dumber. Sorry you had to go through that, Em.

[ERayR]

When our kids were really little, my husband's white shirts just couldn't stay clean. Two of them got puked on, so he put on his dark colored one and went to a meeting about YM/Scout stuff. The high councilman men said since they were in a priesthood meeting, they should be wearing white shirts. Oh brother! I told him, "Next time show up with carrot barf all over it and see how he likes that!" One time I missed church completely because my son hurled all over my last clean outfit.

Chastizing a new convert is even dumber. Sorry you had to go through that, Em.

As long as one wears something modest then whatever it is is OK. To fuss over its color is plain pharisaic.

[MorningStar]

This is the reason some try to intervene and set arbitrary standards. There is always someone who pushes the limits of modesty and decorum.

True. Some girls will show up in outfits that our long enough, but skin tight. My friend's mom had a rule that skirts had to touch the floor when you kneel down or they weren't long enough. Don't know how you would come up with a rule of thumb for tightness.

[MorningStar]

As long as one wears something modest then whatever it is is OK. To fuss over its color is plain pharisaic.

It was ridicuous. They weren't performing any ordinances. It was just a meeting. We're not buying him ten white shirts to meet someone's silly expectations. He wore a very nice shirt and so did another brother.

[ERayR]

It was ridicuous. They weren't performing any ordinances. It was just a meeting. We're not buying him ten white shirts to meet someone's silly expectations. He wore a very nice shirt and so did another brother.

I do that sometimes and I rarely wear a tie except on Sunday. I also rarely wear anything but my Crocs sandals. Everything else hurts my feet after an hour.

[bluebell]

True. Some girls will show up in outfits that our long enough, but skin tight. My friend's mom had a rule that skirts had to touch the floor when you kneel down or they weren't long enough. Don't know how you would come up with a rule of thumb for tightness.

Maybe, if you can see the outline of your bra (like it stuck up and made ridges), it's too tight?

[Calm]

True. Some girls will show up in outfits that our long enough, but skin tight. My friend's mom had a rule that skirts had to touch the floor when you kneel down or they weren't long enough. Don't know how you would come up with a rule of thumb for tightness.

I have heard (not among LDS church members but from a doctor) that if you can't easily slide a pencil in your waistline, it is dangerous to your health.

[Calm]

I do that sometimes and I rarely wear a tie except on Sunday. I also rarely wear anything but my Crocs sandals. Everything else hurts my feet after an hour.

I wear reeboks to church a lot. They are black and no one has ever said a thing about them or my jean skirt. I had to wear hiking boots on occasion in Russia, everyone understood there that it was not a fashion statement, lol.

[ERayR]

I wear reeboks to church a lot. They are black and no one has ever said a thing about them or my jean skirt. I had to wear hiking boots on occasion in Russia, everyone understood there that it was not a fashion statement, lol.

I think the prophet preaches modesty and others take it upon themselves to define modesty. The prophet says to wear your best and others take it upon themselves to define what that should be. I have always maintained that if blue jeans is the best you have then clean them up and wear them.