Why The Need To Do This?

[MormonMason]

Mace?

Give her a 45 caliber 1911 in her purse!

Now we're talkin'!

Hollow-point .50 caliber magnum rounds are better. Makes more of a mess and can almost ensure that the crime is not repeated.

Problem is, many women could not handle some of these handguns. They pack a heckuva wallop in recoil. But, they get the job done.

[Traela]

I just realized that there have been zero problems with modesty in our ward in the past year. Of course, that might be due to the recent building remodel. As part of that, the air conditioning somehow got set so low that the women and girls are always borrowing their husbands'/brothers'/sons' suit jackets. No bare shoulders here!

[MormonMason]

Air conditioning? It's the perfect solution to modesty issues! I never thought of that before.

Of course, that could do a number on the Ward Budget....

[emeliza]

Chastizing a new convert is even dumber. Sorry you had to go through that, Em.

That is so dumb. The bishop should have told that sister who 'turned you in' to worry about the beam in her own eye and not given in to her pressure to have you censured for no reason.

This might sound stupid, but honestly I know there was no ill will by the Bishop or the sister that asked him to talk to me. I know she really thought she was doing the right thing and he agreed, even though he might not have done so on his own.

My first 3 years in the Church I learned a ton about not taking offense and to look at the intent of someone, not just what they said. So when my Bishop told me that his kids were better behaved because his wife was a stay at home mom and had more time for them, I realized he was trying to give me an out because my kids didn't sit as still as his. I was a single parent who worked full time. I could easily have taken this as a dig at my life, especially since there were plenty of stay at home moms with kids who were way more unruly than mine. But honestly, he wasn't trying to be mean. Just reading the words it sure looks like he was, but he just was a bit backwards or not well socialized.

The same goes for the time he suggested that I move to a more LDS populated area so I could find someone to marry me. I could have taken it that I wasn't good enough single, but instead realized he was trying to be helpful in his backward way.

Or even funnier when his oldest son thanked my now husband for wanting to marry and take care of me. My husband was pretty offended by that one and said that we weren't lost puppies and we did fine taking care of ourselves. It just made me laugh though because I am pretty certain his son wasn't trying to be mean either.

Anyway you will hear stuff like that at church and often times people try to be helpful without understanding how they are coming off or the harm they might be doing with their helpfulness. You just have to learn what the intent is and go from there. In my experience, 9 times out of 10, the person is trying to be kind and helpful, but just has no idea how they come off or they think a solution for them would work for you.

[ERayR]

This might sound stupid, but honestly I know there was no ill will by the Bishop or the sister that asked him to talk to me. I know she really thought she was doing the right thing and he agreed, even though he might not have done so on his own.

My first 3 years in the Church I learned a ton about not taking offense and to look at the intent of someone, not just what they said. So when my Bishop told me that his kids were better behaved because his wife was a stay at home mom and had more time for them, I realized he was trying to give me an out because my kids didn't sit as still as his. I was a single parent who worked full time. I could easily have taken this as a dig at my life, especially since there were plenty of stay at home moms with kids who were way more unruly than mine. But honestly, he wasn't trying to be mean. Just reading the words it sure looks like he was, but he just was a bit backwards or not well socialized.

The same goes for the time he suggested that I move to a more LDS populated area so I could find someone to marry me. I could have taken it that I wasn't good enough single, but instead realized he was trying to be helpful in his backward way.

Or even funnier when his oldest son thanked my now husband for wanting to marry and take care of me. My husband was pretty offended by that one and said that we weren't lost puppies and we did fine taking care of ourselves. It just made me laugh though because I am pretty certain his son wasn't trying to be mean either.

Anyway you will hear stuff like that at church and often times people try to be helpful without understanding how they are coming off or the harm they might be doing with their helpfulness. You just have to learn what the intent is and go from there. In my experience, 9 times out of 10, the person is trying to be kind and helpful, but just has no idea how they come off or they think a solution for them would work for you.

Sometimes those of us with two left feet come off as pretty lopsided. We really do care though.

Edited September 24, 2012 by ERayR

[KevinG]

Don't know how you would come up with a rule of thumb for tightness.

...if you can't fit your thumb between the skirt and your body...

[emeliza]

...if you can't fit your thumb between the skirt and your body...

That would mean the waist band is too tight, not the whole outfit.

[KevinG]

That would mean the waist band is too tight, not the whole outfit.

I was thinking about the whole skirt when i said that. And I've seen those at church. Like a cloth paint job. Leaves nothing to the imagination...

[KevinG]

Men do have a responsibility not to objectify women no matter how they dress. A few years back I was very proud of my oldest son who spent the day at the pool with his sisters the two young ladies from next door. These Ukrainian girls were wearing the skimpy bikinis they got at a Black Sea resort and they weren't very covered. My son being an LDS gentleman was straining to not accidently glance or stare at the many revealing bits. The girls told his sister it was very cute that he always looked them in the eye and that most boys eyes never made it to their faces. That simple effort on his part while somewhat amusing to them also garnered him a position as trusted male friend and confidant.

[emeliza]

Good job on your son there.

[mfbukowski]

Men do have a responsibility not to objectify women no matter how they dress. A few years back I was very proud of my oldest son who spent the day at the pool with his sisters the two young ladies from next door. These Ukrainian girls were wearing the skimpy bikinis they got at a Black Sea resort and they weren't very covered. My son being an LDS gentleman was straining to not accidently glance or stare at the many revealing bits. The girls told his sister it was very cute that he always looked them in the eye and that most boys eyes never made it to their faces. That simple effort on his part while somewhat amusing to them also garnered him a position as trusted male friend and confidant.

And of course they wore those suits because they wanted men to look them in the eye right?

[Garden Girl]

I wear reeboks to church a lot. They are black and no one has ever said a thing about them or my jean skirt. I had to wear hiking boots on occasion in Russia, everyone understood there that it was not a fashion statement, lol.

Me too, Cal... but mine are white... starting several years ago I was having problems with my left knee (no cartledge left after years as an athlete) and then I had a knee replacement and continued wearing them... and still do. Only occasionally do I wear "regular" shoes. I always dress nicely in skirts/tops... and my reeboks...

My right knee is almost ready for surgery, but since I've been wearing the reeboks it seems to do better.

GG

[thesometimesaint]

GG:

Just make sure they are your best Reeboks.

[ERayR]

Me too, Cal... but mine are white... starting several years ago I was having problems with my left knee (no cartledge left after years as an athlete) and then I had a knee replacement and continued wearing them... and still do. Only occasionally do I wear "regular" shoes. I always dress nicely in skirts/tops... and my reeboks...

My right knee is almost ready for surgery, but since I've been wearing the reeboks it seems to do better.

GG

As I said I wear my Crocs. A few years ago we had a lady in the ward who was a converted 60's flower child. Her footwear of choice was Birkenstocks.

[Garden Girl]

As I said I wear my Crocs. A few years ago we had a lady in the ward who was a converted 60's flower child. Her footwear of choice wasBirkenstocks.

For a converted flower child... is there any other kind?

GG

[TruthSeeker24]

Just an observation. It seems to me that the issue of "standards" is a rather difficult scenario. I've noticed that while the laws and ordinances of God do not change, standards have always been changing. There was a time when it was considered completely immoral for a women to show her calf muscles on her legs. Eliza R. Snow was appalled when a man asked her to waltz with her, as that form of dance required a man and a women to be up against each other. Now-a-days, these things are so trifling it would make us laugh if they were outlawed in the Church. Standards have always been changing, its definitely a very gray area that can be pretty complicated. I think the most important issue is trying to be willing to comply with the rules, as long as their not oppressive of course.

[thesometimesaint]

By the great Ella Fitzgerald

[mfbukowski]

As I said I wear my Crocs. A few years ago we had a lady in the ward who was a converted 60's flower child. Her footwear of choice was Birkenstocks.

That makes two of us. Flower children I mean, not shoes, though lately I look like an old shoe and feel like one too

Edited September 25, 2012 by mfbukowski

[Tacenda]

Wow, I must live in an uppity ward. Sounds like some of you might not like my ward at all. I remember one gal apoligising for wearing something simiar to crocs because of foot pain, sad. I think it talks about fine apparel in James 2:2.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Tacenda

[sweetpotatoh]

I don't think bringing out the standards in class to make a point is always the right thing to do. Kids in that age group are very sensitive and this could have easily gone very badly. Sure, if you want to make a point, pull the child to the side - away from her peers.

I've never sat in a class where it was purposely talked about that the body is a Temple because there were "fat" people sitting there, and yes, there were quite a few in many of my wards. (I'm not talking thyroid problem people, I'm talking double cheeseburger problem people)

I still think back to one of my most shameful periods when I felt pressured to tell a young man that he couldn't pass the sacrament because he wore jeans to church. They were probably the best option that Sunday and he was eons more in tune with the Spirit than the other boys, and the leaders knew it, but it didn't fit the 'dress' they wanted. I should have stood up for him that day and I didn't. I have since apologized to he and his mother.

What about the leaders who have a letter in hand asking them to discuss dress standards. Here in Southern California, the everyday teenage girl wears clothing that falls short of our standards. I am not talking jeans and polo shirts, I am talking skin tight, too short, revealing clothing. Our young women are exposed to this everyday at school. It is real easy for them to let their standards down because they become use to seeing more skin then cloth. The line has to be drawn somewhere. Any counsel should be done under the direction of the spirit. To deny someone the opportunity to pass the sacrament because they have jeans on is mean. My last ward in Southern Utah most of the men wore wrangler jeans and western style shirts to church. They blessed and passed the sacrament. It was the most friendly loving ward I have ever been to.

Just to be clear, I am referring to clothing that is to tight, short or revealing. I could care less if someone wears jeans or a women wears pants to church. I doubt the savior cares what we wear as long as it is modest.

[ERayR]

Wow, I must live in an uppity ward. Sounds like some of you might not like my ward at all. I remember one gal apoligising for wearing something simiar to crocs because of foot pain, sad. I think it talks about fine apparel in James 2:2.

Tacenda as you describe your ward I would indeed be uncomfortable attending with you but I might get acquainted and educate a few of them in the process.

[ERayR]

What about the leaders who have a letter in hand asking them to discuss dress standards. Here in Southern California, the everyday teenage girl wears clothing that falls short of our standards. I am not talking jeans and polo shirts, I am talking skin tight, too short, revealing clothing. Our young women are exposed to this everyday at school. It is real easy for them to let their standards down because they become use to seeing more skin then cloth. The line has to be drawn somewhere. Any counsel should be done under the direction of the spirit. To deny someone the opportunity to pass the sacrament because they have jeans on is mean. My last ward in Southern Utah most of the men wore wrangler jeans and western style shirts to church. They blessed and passed the sacrament. It was the most friendly loving ward I have ever been to.

Just to be clear, I am referring to clothing that is to tight, short or revealing. I could care less if someone wears jeans or a women wears pants to church. I doubt the savior cares what we wear as long as it is modest.

Because of those who push the limits of propriety it must be addressed from time to time. However, it should not be approached in a Pharisaical manner.

[KevinG]

Our young women are exposed to this everyday at school. It is real easy for them to let their standards down because they become use to seeing more skin then cloth.

This is tough with teenage women. I walked a fine line between supporting my daughters agency, their self image and encouraging modesty. Even my most rebellious daughters (which by worldly standards was not too rebellious) who wanted to push the limits of skirt length and bare shoulders tend to get more conservative themselves as they reach adulthood.

The fashion world does not help them at all.

On the other hand we have had sisters who go too far in protecting their daughters. My wife has seen young women wearing three camisoles at once under a dress during summer. There is something wrong with being so conservative that young women take to strange and extreme fashions to insure no question about their modesty.

[ERayR]

This is tough with teenage women. I walked a fine line between supporting my daughters agency, their self image and encouraging modesty. Even my most rebellious daughters (which by worldly standards was not too rebellious) who wanted to push the limits of skirt length and bare shoulders tend to get more conservative themselves as they reach adulthood.

The fashion world does not help them at all.

On the other hand we have had sisters who go too far in protecting their daughters. My wife has seen young women wearing three camisoles at once under a dress during summer. There is something wrong with being so conservative that young women take to strange and extreme fashions to insure no question about their modesty.

As my grandmother would say "heavens to merkatroids can't anybody use common sense anymore"?

ps don't ask me what merkatroids is grandma knew but she has been gone for a number of years.

[KevinG]

As my grandmother would say "heavens to merkatroids can't anybody use common sense anymore"?

ps don't ask me what merkatroids is grandma knew but she has been gone for a number of years.

Wow. Ask a simple question... I just got an education.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/heavens-to-murgatroyd.html