Another Thread On Faith Crisis....

[DBMormon]

I went back to my original thread on this board. I was really struggling, doubting everything I had come to know. It hurt. It was pure hell and anguish.

http://www.mormondia...d-faith-crisis/

I hope as time has gone on, the regulars here have gotten a better feel for me and perhaps we both understand each other on better terms then those first couple months.

This subjects fascinates me as I have experienced it firsthand, I am hopeful that my experience and the things I have picked up from many of you will help others along the way. By the way, I am going to Canada next week to do a fireside in another ward on Faith Crisis (how to protect our testimonies) and on Grace (a more cleaned up slightly safer approach)

My questions are as follows

1.) If you haven't had a major crisis of faith, what do you think has been your key to avoiding one?

- Did the issues never bother you or were you innoculated early on?

- If you were innoculated, who by (Bishop, Parents, Sunday School Teacher) ?

2.) If you have had a major faith crisis - what brought you through to the other side? (those still believing)

- what was the major factor - was it a mentor? , your studying? a spiritual experience?

- How long did the crisis last - weeks, months, years?

3.) If you had a major faith crisis and no longer believe, could you ever be convinced that the church is a "true and living" church with God's authority?

- Or are you totally shut out aginst that conclusion minus a angelic visit?

Edited September 13, 2012 by DBMormon

[DBMormon]

my answers

1.) If you haven't had a major crisis of faith, what do you think has been your key to avoiding one?

- Did the issues never bother you or were you innoculated early on?

- If you were innoculated, who by (Bishop, Parents, Sunday School Teacher) ?

1.) Encountered a lot of anti while investigating and in early years in church. Most of it was the stuff other christian faiths say that was easily dealt with and mostly non-sense and not well thought out.

I had no major crisis early on (except reading no man knows my history before baptism but that only lasted a couple of days). Not sure why these early encounters did not bother me much. I guess I always assumed there were good answers and usually I found them.

I was inoculated by apologetic information online. Though some of it was bad apologetics that I accepted as truth setting me up for a faith crisis later on down the line. No one in my ward was informed on these issues so there was no one to go to to get answers, all mine came from online. "Book of Mormon Answerman on New Jerusalem website", F.A.I.R., FARMS, SHIELDS, though these sites do very little for the issues on my shelf today. I even see these types of sites as irritating at times when it comes to explaining the things on my shelf that there are no great answers for.

2.) If you have had a major faith crisis - what brought you through to the other side? (those still believing)

- what was the major factor - was it a mentor? , your studying? a spiritual experience?

- How long did the crisis last - weeks, months, years?

2.) what brought me through? hmmmm.... bantering back and forth here was good in some ways, though bad in others. Part of what brought me through was knowing that smarter better men then me knew all I knew and more and still believed. (Bushman, Teryl Givens, Phillip Barlow, Brant Gardner, some of the folks here like ... you know who you are, ect...).

I also knew for me the church bore good fruit in my life. I can't think of a better place I want to spend my self, then the church. Time has healed my wounds. It also involved spiritual experiences. dramatic ones, which some I have shared here, some too sacred.

Private messages from some of you here helped a bunch. You empathized when I needed and one individual let me have it, when I needed it. No it wasn't you ERAYR, ZERINUS, BOB CROCKET, or SELEK - though I have come to appreciate each of you too.

By the way I asked NEMESIS to re-instate SELEK, but so far he hasn't... come on NEMESIS.... PLEASE????? how about it?

My Crisis lasted about 9 months, off an on. It was pure hell for about two months. While I still have serious questions and some re-occuring doubt, I can't see myself feeling the angst that came with this recent Crisis as it really seemed life or death. I used to think any open minded person could only conclude the church is true, though now I am fully aware it is a choice and there is enough evidence on both sides. Don't want it to be that way, but I can live with it.

Anyway - I think this subject really helps those in their Crisis, so please be kind knowing I bring this up from time to time, as it is helpful to others.

[DBMormon]

Also For the last 45 minutes I have been reading that first thread. While you guys eventually got fed up with me and were very mean... lol I was quite an jerk. Sorry.... I can see now, that at least in the beginning you were patient and kind and long suffering.... just not long enough for me. lol

[The Nehor]

Edited out as not relevant. This thread is about gospel truthfulness crises and my experiences do not fall in that area

Edited September 14, 2012 by The Nehor

[Ahab]

1.) If you haven't had a major crisis of faith, what do you think has been your key to avoiding one?

Remembering the faith God gave me in the first place. I never had what I would call a "crisis", but my faith has been tested many times on many occasions. Even when I stopped going to Church meetings for a long while I still had the faith God had given to me. I kinda lost faith in myself, sometimes, but never in God. Sometimes I think I got low just so God could help me remember how much I need him.

- Did the issues never bother you or were you innoculated early on?

I didn't know much at all about "Mormons" until I met a returned missionary at age 28, while still single. She was just what I needed, as far as being the right kind of missionary. I received a testimony and was ready to join the Church within a week or two and as soon as I told my family about it they started giving me anti books to "help" me. I actually grew a lot from reading those and the research I did to follow up. I'd go into the ward library to check out the journals of discourses and volumes of Church history, and some members who noticed were also willing to share their knowledge with me. I learned what it was like to receive revelation from God very quickly.

- If you were innoculated, who by (Bishop, Parents, Sunday School Teacher) ?

God.

[cesc101]

My questions are as follows

1.) If you haven't had a major crisis of faith, what do you think has been your key to avoiding one?

- Did the issues never bother you or were you innoculated early on?

- If you were innoculated, who by (Bishop, Parents, Sunday School Teacher) ?

[ ...]

- Or are you totally shut out aginst that conclusion minus a angelic visit?

I had quite a wonderful time with religious literatures before coming in contact with the LDS church - infact my quest for more literatures landed me in the church. That knowledge kind of gave me an innoculation to most of the anti stuffs i come accross online.

So, i wouldn't say am prone a major faith crises - in the sense that i'd always taken the idea of God/Religion to be an individual interpretation. Whatever works for you!

If you cant prove it objectively, leave it to faith.

Since faith based issues cannot be objectively verified, you cant move me.

{I know this view don't help those who struggle, but common, God is not to tell you to your face which is which, so why doubt what you once believe only to end up with no believe at all?}

[CV75]

1.) If you haven't had a major crisis of faith, what do you think has been your key to avoiding one?

- Did the issues never bother you or were you innoculated early on?

- If you were innoculated, who by (Bishop, Parents, Sunday School Teacher) ?

I never had a faith crisis, but who is to say that I kept my covenants any better than if I had one? Even I can’t answer that since the Lord will judge me according to the light that I have, and will judge me by what I am, and not by what I was.

All I can say is that then, as I do now, pursued “the light” the best I could, and trusted my testimony when receiving information that cast a bad light on the Church. The answers I was looking for involved receiving light and truth, not reasons for believing light and truth. I certainly try to understand what I believe, but not why I should believe. That is hard to explain.

I have had other kinds of crises in my life, and I’ve always believed that keeping the commandments and covenants the best I can, even if I fail but not give up trying, is all I can do. Perhaps this attitude has allowed me to avoid a faith crisis. I’m sure the grace of God has everything to do with it, which was manifest in my conversion in such a way that I was never swayed from the Church when looking for whatever it is I looked for when choosing poorly.

I can't say the issues presented on this board are new to me or that they ever bothered me to the point that I doubted that the Church is what it claims to be, or in other words, that the Lord's servants do not have the keys and exercise them as the Lord wants them to. I'e benfited too much, from the start.

If i was "innoculated" (I'm not sure if that is exactly what I would call it; I would call it strengthening), it was by the Spirit, and not against specific historical or docrinal points but to withstand the temptaion not to seek further spiritual light and knowledge.

[divinenature]

3.) If you had a major faith crisis and no longer believe, could you ever be convinced that the church is a "true and living" church with God's authority?

No. Even an "angelic visit" would not convince me.

[DBMormon]

No. Even an "angelic visit" would not convince me.

So an angel came down and instructed you the LDS church was the True and Living church on the earth ..... and you wouldn't change your mind? How would you reconcile the angelic visit? What would it mean to you? angel lied? Your insane? ect...?

[divinenature]

So an angel came down and instructed you the LDS church was the True and Living church on the earth ..... and you wouldn't change your mind? How would you reconcile the angelic visit? What would it mean to you? angel lied? Your insane? ect...?

Hallucination, mind trick, vivid dream, sleep paralysis, etc.

But, even if I was somehow convinced it was "true" I would still disagree with many of the basic principles and doctrines.

[DavidB]

I have not had a major faith crisis, I have not been inocculated against it by anyone. I have thought about others crisis and their experiences.

Like many, I simple do not know the things that bring people to a crisis.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I went back to my original thread on this board. I was really struggling, doubting everything I had come to know. It hurt. It was pure hell and anguish.

http://www.mormondia...d-faith-crisis/

I hope as time has gone on, the regulars here have gotten a better feel for me and perhaps we both understand each other on better terms then those first couple months.

This subjects fascinates me as I have experienced it firsthand, I am hopeful that my experience and the things I have picked up from many of you will help others along the way. By the way, I am going to Canada next week to do a fireside in another ward on Faith Crisis (how to protect our testimonies) and on Grace (a more cleaned up slightly safer approach)

My questions are as follows

1.) If you haven't had a major crisis of faith, what do you think has been your key to avoiding one?

- Did the issues never bother you or were you innoculated early on?

- If you were innoculated, who by (Bishop, Parents, Sunday School Teacher) ?

2.) If you have had a major faith crisis - what brought you through to the other side? (those still believing)

- what was the major factor - was it a mentor? , your studying? a spiritual experience?

- How long did the crisis last - weeks, months, years?

3.) If you had a major faith crisis and no longer believe, could you ever be convinced that the church is a "true and living" church with God's authority?

- Or are you totally shut out aginst that conclusion minus a angelic visit?

I don't think such topics are allowed...

[DBMormon]

why is that? How can one struggling talk to those eho have experienced it if such topics are not permitted.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

why is that? How can one struggling talk to those eho have experienced it if such topics are not permitted.

Your call...I 'm out.

[pmccombs1]

why is that? How can one struggling talk to those eho have experienced it if such topics are not permitted.

The board guidelines suggest the following is not allowed:

"Personal topics such as 'Why I Left the Church' threads. This is not a support group. If you are having a spiritual crisis and need help, contacting your local leaders would be the appropriate action and of course, taking your problem to our Father in Heaven. We do care very much for struggling members, but we don't want to see you made a target for judgment and insults. Don't make yourself the subject."

While there might be some room for legitimate discussion on crises of faith in a general sense, I suspect such threads would quickly devolve into places where people would unload their pent up angst. We doubters are in need of constant feedback, because it feels like an anchor in the absence of one. That's not what this board wants to be. I guess the moderators will decide.

[DBMormon]

So be it it.....

I did like your comment

We doubters are in need of constant feedback, because it feels like an anchor in the absence of one.

[Kevin Christensen]

All I do is keep my eyes open, give things, time, and re-examine my assumptions now and then. The alternative is to stop looking, insist on answers now, and never examine my own assumptions.

The only crisis of faith I've had led to my first publication in LDS journals, the Dialogue article on "New Wine and New Bottles: Scriptural Scholarship as Sacrament." I've long found things like the Parable of the Sower, Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, Ian Barbour's Myths, Models and Paradigms: A Comparative Study of Science and Religion, and the Perry Scheme for Cognitive and Ethical Growth all to be of immense help in understanding crisis and resolution in whatever direction.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[KevinG]

My strongest faith crisis was when I was asked by God to do something I could not bear. I wanted to deny the Holy Spirit, I wanted to deny the Church was true so I could avoid the trial I was required to pass through. I could not because I was inoculated by the Holy Spirit itself when it gave me a testimony of the truth of the Gospel and the Living God.

As Brigham I desired the grave. But I could not deny what God had revealed to me through the power of the Holy Ghost.

I encourage all my children to seek out this gift, to know for themselves by the power of the Holy Ghost, so that when tests large and small come their way they will have an eternal and infinite anchor to hold onto.

[Walden]

My questions are as follows

1.) If you haven't had a major crisis of faith, what do you think has been your key to avoiding one?

- Did the issues never bother you or were you innoculated early on?

- If you were innoculated, who by (Bishop, Parents, Sunday School Teacher) ?

2.) If you have had a major faith crisis - what brought you through to the other side? (those still believing)

- what was the major factor - was it a mentor? , your studying? a spiritual experience?

- How long did the crisis last - weeks, months, years?

3.) If you had a major faith crisis and no longer believe, could you ever be convinced that the church is a "true and living" church with God's authority?

- Or are you totally shut out aginst that conclusion minus a angelic visit?

As a former LDS believer and current atheist, I think that only question 3 applies to my situation. In order to respect board rules, I will not discuss the many reasons why I left the LDS faith, but to answer question #3: though I don't personally believe in any deity or supernatural forces, I am open to the idea that I could be completely wrong with regard to my views on religion and deity. I am not naive enough to think that I have cornered the market on truth (unlike my former LDS self).

So yes, I have the potential to be convinced that the church is "true." The evidence would have to be quite overwhelming, but I do not completely shut out the possibility with absolute certainty. An authentic visit from an angel might make me reconsider my position.

[Tacenda]

As a former LDS believer and current atheist, I think that only question 3 applies to my situation. In order to respect board rules, I will not discuss the many reasons why I left the LDS faith, but to answer question #3: though I don't personally believe in any deity or supernatural forces, I am open to the idea that I could be completely wrong with regard to my views on religion and deity. I am not naive enough to think that I have cornered the market on truth (unlike my former LDS self).

So yes, I have the potential to be convinced that the church is "true." The evidence would have to be quite overwhelming, but I do not completely shut out the possibility with absolute certainty. An authentic visit from an angel might make me reconsider my position.

Why is it so prevelant for former members of the LDS church to lose their testimony of God too? My feeling is that we aren't getting enough of Jesus in our meetings at church. Studying in depth, verse by verse in the bible, of Jesus. No praising his name outwardly. We need that in the LDS church. It's more the gospel of Joseph Smith sometimes, that I'm getting. So why lose the testimony of God? I don't think we are quite living up to the notion of having a relationship with HIM. Just temples, prophets and so forth. How much of our doctrine is in the bible? It just seems that we rely too much on some manmade concepts, that possibly could have been spoken of as prophets for the Lord but than have been changed through the years, so that leads us to nowhere on what to believe and what not to believe.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Tacenda

[KevinG]

Why is it so prevelant for former members of the LDS church to lose their testimony of God too?

Because the two are so intimately connected.

I don't recognize the LDS church you describe. Our Sacrament meetings, our curricula and our faith is completely Christ centered. If you are not living up to a relationship with Christ you are the one who needs to repent.

Edited September 14, 2012 by KevinG

[thesometimesaint]

Tacenda:

I don't know what church you're attending. We start and stop ALL our meetings with prayers to God through his Son Jesus.

Every Sacrament Meeting is a remembrance of the Atonement of Christ.

Every Sunday School lesson in how we can better serve God, and Christ.

Every Priesthood Meeting is how others served Christ as leaders in His Church, and how we can do likewise.

General Conference, Stake Conference.

Family Home Evening. How to be more like Christ with our families.

Our own personal Scripture study.

Seminaries, Institute classes. etc. ,etc., etc..

If you're not getting Jesus in our meetings then you're either not attending, or not paying attention.

[KevinG]

If you're not getting Jesus in our meetings then you're either not attending, or not paying attention.

These are standard complaints on the anti-Mormon and "recovery" discussion boards. This is a symptom of spending too much time researching critiques and not enough time practicing one's religion.

Edited September 14, 2012 by KevinG

[sheilauk]

1.) If you haven't had a major crisis of faith, what do you think has been your key to avoiding one?

- Did the issues never bother you or were you innoculated early on?

- If you were innoculated, who by (Bishop, Parents, Sunday School Teacher) ?

I only joined the LDS a few years ago, but have attended various other denominations of Christian churches from a very young age. Many of the issues raised here would never be an issue in the other churches. My crisis of faith was because what I was taught/learnt/experienced in those churches just wasn't enough. For me, avoiding another crisis would involve not forgetting about the Saviour and our Heavenly Father again. Pray and study are the best innoculations for me anyway.

2.) If you have had a major faith crisis - what brought you through to the other side? (those still believing)

- what was the major factor - was it a mentor? , your studying? a spiritual experience?

- How long did the crisis last - weeks, months, years?

I left the church i was attending and stopped going to any church. I wasn't studying scripture, stopped praying and (unsurprisingly) my faith diminished and almost vanished. that went on for several years. What brought me back was the realisation that I couldn't survive without help and remembering my faith so I guess I'd say it was a spiritual experience that brought me back. I then found myself investigating the LDS and so came across so many of these difficult issues and still joined so its unlikely that those issues will have a negative impact now!

3.) If you had a major faith crisis and no longer believe, could you ever be convinced that the church is a "true and living" church with God's authority?

- Or are you totally shut out aginst that conclusion minus a angelic visit?

As I was almost unbelieving and now am a member, I obviously was open to becoming convinced without an angelic visit!

[Antoni]

I only joined the LDS a few years ago, but have attended various other denominations of Christian churches from a very young age. Many of the issues raised here would never be an issue in the other churches. My crisis of faith was because what I was taught/learnt/experienced in those churches just wasn't enough. For me, avoiding another crisis would involve not forgetting about the Saviour and our Heavenly Father again. Pray and study are the best innoculations for me anyway.

I left the church i was attending and stopped going to any church. I wasn't studying scripture, stopped praying and (unsurprisingly) my faith diminished and almost vanished. that went on for several years. What brought me back was the realisation that I couldn't survive without help and remembering my faith so I guess I'd say it was a spiritual experience that brought me back. I then found myself investigating the LDS and so came across so many of these difficult issues and still joined so its unlikely that those issues will have a negative impact now!

As I was almost unbelieving and now am a member, I obviously was open to becoming convinced without an angelic visit!

Almost (I've not joined at time of writing this) identical to my experience so will cut and past it and say "ditto"