Another Thread On Faith Crisis....

[why me]

I don't know about other churches, but I believe our faith concentrates a great deal on helping us become Christlike so that we cannot only learn about Christ, but actually encounter him personally because we have prepared ourselves spiritually to be open to his Spirit.

Opps, I just now read your post. I agree with you as you can see from my above posts. People seem to forget that the lds have a 3 hour block of meetings. There is some room for clutter during that time. it is only natural.

[KevinG]

So many personalities to focus on...like the yearly study of the prophets one by one in RS and PH.

There is one chapter in the beginning of each of those manuals on the life of each prophet. Then all other lessons are about Christ or one of His teachings.

[Deborah]

My 2 cents. All other churches have is the Christ of the New Testament. They don't have Priesthood, temples, prophets, etc. We have so many other things that pertain to the Atonement that are also taught in order to better help us understand the Atonement and to live the gospel of Jesus Christ. We also believe the gospel is so much more than just professing belief and therefore much discussion goes on about how we can live the gospel.

[Sis W.]

I believe I have never had a crisis of faith because the Gospel has always brought me such happiness. I was raised by a very Faithful Mother(inactive father) who taught us the scriptures,prayer and we were always helping other people---and I had no nasty surpprises from church history mostly because I had a very informed Uncle who guided my reading a lot---he was even Church Historian for a short time. I may have been one of the few persons hopping from one foot to another eagerly awaiting the publication of Emma--Mormom Enigma---but mostly the Gospel just makes me happy and fills me with joy--I love God and Jesus Christ and their gospel.

[Buckeye]

Hi DBMormon,

Here's my approach in a nutshell. I have frequently been bothered by aspects of the church's history, but never came close to having a "faith crisis." For me, there is no one reason why, but there are a lot of factors. Here are a few:

1. Personal spiritual experiences. From early on I have been blessed with many strong and guiding experiences. These are the basis of my testimony. Not historical fact or logic.
   
2. I take active personal responsibility for my own salvation and happiness. Obviously I can't do anything without the atonement. But my salvation also requires all that I can do. In this process, I do not see the church as a "train" on which I simply have to stay put, but as a collection of fellow travelers. Because of this, I appoarch "hard issues" not as something to be avoided, but as a necessary part of the growth process.
   
3. I have never gone on a "binge" in which I searched out as many hard issues as I could. Instead, I have taken issues as I learn them, but also maintained regular temple attendance, scripture study, and especially prayer. I think it is critical to pace onself with hard issues.
   
4. I do not expect too much out of church leadership. Perhaps this is because I've been part of the "leadership" since I was a deacon. I do believe President Monson has authority to lead the world-wide church and that he can receive revelation. But this is also true of the deacon's quorum president (at least within his sphere of responsibility). I hold the Prophet in very high esteem, but I don't really expect more out of him than the deacon's quorum president.
   
5. I only treat counsel from church leaders as revelation when the spirit independently confirms that fact to me (which happens often)
   
6. I am comfortable with change and uncertainty, even when that change seems to contract prior beliefs. I don't see the gospel as providing all the answers now, but providing guidance during a very long journey. I am also comfortable when church leaders take different views on issues (such as evolution).
   
7. Exposure to intellectually strong members such as Givens, Bushman, Erying, Peterson, Quinn, etc. who can face diffcult facts and yet continue on.
   
8. My nuclear family is very strong in the gospel so I have always had all the support I need.
   
9. That said, my ancestory is littered with many difficult issues. For instance, we are southerners who practiced slavery. Because of this I was raised to understand that we do not reject family even when they make horrible mistakes. We also do not downplay the bad facts. For this reason the church's historical racism never bothered my testimony. I despise the racism itself, but the church's racism is fairly bland compared to my family's. I can no more reject Brigham than I can my ancestors.
   
10. Several of my spiritual experiences have been impressions to disobey minor temporary laws. As I obeyed the spirit in these instances, I gained a greater testimony of what is important and what is not. Thus, my testimony is based on personal revelation, not strict adherence to rules and leaders. Two specific examples of this are:
    
    1. 
       
    2. I grew up in a family where caffenated beverages were not allowed. I maintained this practice into my mission, but quickly saw that I was hurting members and investigator's feelings by not drinking what they offered. It was no uncommon in southern california for a poor hispanic family to spend a few day's income on a meal for the missionaries. The third dinner this happended on I felt a strong impression to ditch my family's rule and accept the Coke. It was absolutely the right thing to do. Kind of similar to Peter's experience with the jewish dietary code.
       
    3. Mission rules required us to be in the apartment by 9:30. One day in district meeting each companionship committed that before the day ended we would teach 25 people the first discussion. Entering our complex at 9:28 pm we had only taught 24. My companion and I felt prompted to teach the security guard even though we would break mission rules. Turned out the guard was a lapsed member of the church. He did not return to activity because of our lesson. However, a few months later our spanish ward was combined with the local english ward. On the first morning in the new ward the Bishop asked us if we were the Elders who had taught his brother (the security guard). He told us how his brother had reconnected with the family after the lesson and that, even though he was not yet in church, things in the family were much better. Because of this, we had an immediate strong bond with the Bishop and we relied on that during the hard work of combining spanish and english members into one unit.
       
       
       

[Libs]

Don't you get the impression that the church of the new testament also didn't have all the truth yet either? That while led by God, it still had many things yet to be revealed to it? I do. It seems there was a range of held beliefs and doctrine. That they were figuring it out as they go.

Yes, I think there is much to be revealed, but I think knowledge and understanding will, primarily, be revealed to us, individually, according to our ability to accept and understand.

[Libs]

And yet, if one looks at the manual for RS and PH one sees that the prophets were teaching how we can live the word of christ and come closer to him by doing so. In other words it is not about losing site of christ but allowing christ to enter into our daily life, such is the manuals about the teachings of past prophets.

Yes, you're right. I actually pulled out on of my old manuals (the one on David O. McKay) and it is, as you said, mostly Christ centered teachings. It's been awhile since I had read any of them. What I remembering most, I guess, was the bibliography of their lives. The two are somewhat intertwined (bibliography and teachings).

Reflecting on this, I realized that what had first attracted me to the LDS Church (the "moreness" of it, the breadth of information) was made to appear as "evil distortion" by many of the "Bible only" anti-Mormons, I had been talking with. That was one of the many things that gave me pause, because I was raised in orthodox Christianity, so there were some things in my past that had me second guessing the testimony I thought I had, of the LDS Church.

[DBMormon]

Hi DBMormon,

Here's my approach in a nutshell. I have frequently been bothered by aspects of the church's history, but never came close to having a "faith crisis." For me, there is no one reason why, but there are a lot of factors. Here are a few:

1. Personal spiritual experiences. From early on I have been blessed with many strong and guiding experiences. These are the basis of my testimony. Not historical fact or logic.
   
2. I take active personal responsibility for my own salvation and happiness. Obviously I can't do anything without the atonement. But my salvation also requires all that I can do. In this process, I do not see the church as a "train" on which I simply have to stay put, but as a collection of fellow travelers. Because of this, I appoarch "hard issues" not as something to be avoided, but as a necessary part of the growth process.
   
3. I have never gone on a "binge" in which I searched out as many hard issues as I could. Instead, I have taken issues as I learn them, but also maintained regular temple attendance, scripture study, and especially prayer. I think it is critical to pace onself with hard issues.
   
4. I do not expect too much out of church leadership. Perhaps this is because I've been part of the "leadership" since I was a deacon. I do believe President Monson has authority to lead the world-wide church and that he can receive revelation. But this is also true of the deacon's quorum president (at least within his sphere of responsibility). I hold the Prophet in very high esteem, but I don't really expect more out of him than the deacon's quorum president.
   
5. I only treat counsel from church leaders as revelation when the spirit independently confirms that fact to me (which happens often)
   
6. I am comfortable with change and uncertainty, even when that change seems to contract prior beliefs. I don't see the gospel as providing all the answers now, but providing guidance during a very long journey. I am also comfortable when church leaders take different views on issues (such as evolution).
   
7. Exposure to intellectually strong members such as Givens, Bushman, Erying, Peterson, Quinn, etc. who can face diffcult facts and yet continue on.
   
8. My nuclear family is very strong in the gospel so I have always had all the support I need.
   
9. That said, my ancestory is littered with many difficult issues. For instance, we are southerners who practiced slavery. Because of this I was raised to understand that we do not reject family even when they make horrible mistakes. We also do not downplay the bad facts. For this reason the church's historical racism never bothered my testimony. I despise the racism itself, but the church's racism is fairly bland compared to my family's. I can no more reject Brigham than I can my ancestors.
   
10. Several of my spiritual experiences have been impressions to disobey minor temporary laws. As I obeyed the spirit in these instances, I gained a greater testimony of what is important and what is not. Thus, my testimony is based on personal revelation, not strict adherence to rules and leaders. Two specific examples of this are:
    
    1. 
       
    2. I grew up in a family where caffenated beverages were not allowed. I maintained this practice into my mission, but quickly saw that I was hurting members and investigator's feelings by not drinking what they offered. It was no uncommon in southern california for a poor hispanic family to spend a few day's income on a meal for the missionaries. The third dinner this happended on I felt a strong impression to ditch my family's rule and accept the Coke. It was absolutely the right thing to do. Kind of similar to Peter's experience with the jewish dietary code.
       
    3. Mission rules required us to be in the apartment by 9:30. One day in district meeting each companionship committed that before the day ended we would teach 25 people the first discussion. Entering our complex at 9:28 pm we had only taught 24. My companion and I felt prompted to teach the security guard even though we would break mission rules. Turned out the guard was a lapsed member of the church. He did not return to activity because of our lesson. However, a few months later our spanish ward was combined with the local english ward. On the first morning in the new ward the Bishop asked us if we were the Elders who had taught his brother (the security guard). He told us how his brother had reconnected with the family after the lesson and that, even though he was not yet in church, things in the family were much better. Because of this, we had an immediate strong bond with the Bishop and we relied on that during the hard work of combining spanish and english members into one unit.
       
       
       
       
       Buckeye,
       This is a wonderful list that is well laid out. It is precisely these held beliefs and shared experiences that keep other members like you from struggling in a deep faith crisis. Though I recognize all are different and it can happen to anyone for various reasons.
       As a Convert, and having gained my early knowledge from a very fundamental LDS, I was set up for dissapointment. I had made bad assumptions, had held incorrect standards and also held speculation as truth.
       It took a long time over many years to correct all of this and it really hit a peak about 8 - 10 months ago or so.
       But like you I have had deep spiritual experiences that kept me going back into the room, banging my head on the wall, and expecting a better answer. In other words, as bad as it was, I had tasted of deep spiritual truths which along with other blessings kept me from giving up. I fought for it.
       I must admit though I feel bad for those who do not have those deep spiritual experiences as I can only imagine how much more difficult the dark night is without them.
       I absolutely can understand why some walk away feeling betrayed, and losing faith. But I also plead with them to see that while I completely see how they got there and acknowledge it was a fair assumption to make on the information they have/had; That when tested their assumptions are not as accurate as they think and that much of what enrages them, can be understood within it's context as an appropriate action by the church.
       - Hiding info vs perception of hiding info (polyandry is an exception, though that too I get as the church still isn't 100% sure what to make of it, so better to leave it alone)
       - Correcting bad statements by leaders in front of the whole church vs offending people and hurting their standing
       - not being more forthright about difficult issues vs teaching the gospel and staying away from tangents
       ect...

Edited September 18, 2012 by DBMormon

[Tacenda]

Hi DBMormon,

Here's my approach in a nutshell. I have frequently been bothered by aspects of the church's history, but never came close to having a "faith crisis." For me, there is no one reason why, but there are a lot of factors. Here are a few:

1. Personal spiritual experiences. From early on I have been blessed with many strong and guiding experiences. These are the basis of my testimony. Not historical fact or logic.
   
2. I take active personal responsibility for my own salvation and happiness. Obviously I can't do anything without the atonement. But my salvation also requires all that I can do. In this process, I do not see the church as a "train" on which I simply have to stay put, but as a collection of fellow travelers. Because of this, I appoarch "hard issues" not as something to be avoided, but as a necessary part of the growth process.
   
3. I have never gone on a "binge" in which I searched out as many hard issues as I could. Instead, I have taken issues as I learn them, but also maintained regular temple attendance, scripture study, and especially prayer. I think it is critical to pace onself with hard issues.
   
4. I do not expect too much out of church leadership. Perhaps this is because I've been part of the "leadership" since I was a deacon. I do believe President Monson has authority to lead the world-wide church and that he can receive revelation. But this is also true of the deacon's quorum president (at least within his sphere of responsibility). I hold the Prophet in very high esteem, but I don't really expect more out of him than the deacon's quorum president.
   
5. I only treat counsel from church leaders as revelation when the spirit independently confirms that fact to me (which happens often)
   
6. I am comfortable with change and uncertainty, even when that change seems to contract prior beliefs. I don't see the gospel as providing all the answers now, but providing guidance during a very long journey. I am also comfortable when church leaders take different views on issues (such as evolution).
   
7. Exposure to intellectually strong members such as Givens, Bushman, Erying, Peterson, Quinn, etc. who can face diffcult facts and yet continue on.
   
8. My nuclear family is very strong in the gospel so I have always had all the support I need.
   
9. That said, my ancestory is littered with many difficult issues. For instance, we are southerners who practiced slavery. Because of this I was raised to understand that we do not reject family even when they make horrible mistakes. We also do not downplay the bad facts. For this reason the church's historical racism never bothered my testimony. I despise the racism itself, but the church's racism is fairly bland compared to my family's. I can no more reject Brigham than I can my ancestors.
   
10. Several of my spiritual experiences have been impressions to disobey minor temporary laws. As I obeyed the spirit in these instances, I gained a greater testimony of what is important and what is not. Thus, my testimony is based on personal revelation, not strict adherence to rules and leaders. Two specific examples of this are:
    
    1. 
       
    2. I grew up in a family where caffenated beverages were not allowed. I maintained this practice into my mission, but quickly saw that I was hurting members and investigator's feelings by not drinking what they offered. It was no uncommon in southern california for a poor hispanic family to spend a few day's income on a meal for the missionaries. The third dinner this happended on I felt a strong impression to ditch my family's rule and accept the Coke. It was absolutely the right thing to do. Kind of similar to Peter's experience with the jewish dietary code.
       
    3. Mission rules required us to be in the apartment by 9:30. One day in district meeting each companionship committed that before the day ended we would teach 25 people the first discussion. Entering our complex at 9:28 pm we had only taught 24. My companion and I felt prompted to teach the security guard even though we would break mission rules. Turned out the guard was a lapsed member of the church. He did not return to activity because of our lesson. However, a few months later our spanish ward was combined with the local english ward. On the first morning in the new ward the Bishop asked us if we were the Elders who had taught his brother (the security guard). He told us how his brother had reconnected with the family after the lesson and that, even though he was not yet in church, things in the family were much better. Because of this, we had an immediate strong bond with the Bishop and we relied on that during the hard work of combining spanish and english members into one unit.
       
       
       
       
       I really appreciate this list and the two very cool stories at the end. But I need to say my heart sunk on #3 of your list because I did the complete opposite as you because I did "binge" on the "hard issues" and let my scripture study, prayers & temple attendance go by the wayside. Thank you again for this post it made an impact me.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Tacenda

[DBMormon]

I have never gone on a "binge" in which I searched out as many hard issues as I could. Instead, I have taken issues as I learn them, but also maintained regular temple attendance, scripture study, and especially prayer. I think it is critical to pace onself with hard issues.

Tacenda - I too did this... it is why when we become critical, that we take a sarcastic tone or prove me worng attitude as I throw it in your face. We faced all the issues at once and we saw the mountain rather then seeing the climb

[Buckeye]

Tacenda - Thank you for your kind words. I hope you realize I was not trying to put myself on a pedestal with the list. Most of these things are realizations I have come to looking back, not some divine foresight on my part.

Last night I thought more about this and I have a few more bullets to add. Hopefully these are also helpful to you.

1. I was blessed to have parents (and a few church leaders) who were willing to openly share their failures and struggles. As one example - when I was a teenager I confessed a fairly normal teenage transgression to my bishop and was counseled to not take the sacrament for a few weeks. My father noticed this. In our ensuing discussion, he did not lambast me but instead confessed that he too had struggled with the same issue and told me of the solutions he had found. This approach made all the difference in my life. I did not lose faith in my father because of his confession. Rather, my love and faith in him grew 100 fold. I can't tell you how many times I have hit a tough spot in life and concluded, "well, my Dad pushed through this so I can too." In a nutshell, that's really what the gospel is too me.
   
2. I could go on and on about how important the reality of flawed leaders is to our gospel, but there isn't enough space. If you're interested, I would point you to the Mormon Stories interviews with Teryl Givens where he does a masterful job in explaining mormonism's radical introduction of a less-than-all-powerful God. Even a God who weeps and suffers with us. That is the example my father set for me. And because of that example, it is the understanding of God that I grew up with. I find Joseph and Brigham's failures uplifting rather than faith-shattering. God really meant it when he said he raised up Joseph to show what he could do with the weak things of the world. And if he could do that with Joseph, I have some hope too.
   
3. Somewhere through life I picked up this advice - "don't criticize something unless you have something better to offer." I've found that principle to be very helpful in approaching hard issues. It is easy to poke at other's mistakes. Too easy. What is harder, and actually productive, is to study out the context of the event and honestly ask if I would have done anything different. I find this approach not only leads to more truth, it leads to humility and empathy for those who made the mistakes.
   

[Tacenda]

Tacenda - Thank you for your kind words. I hope you realize I was not trying to put myself on a pedestal with the list. Most of these things are realizations I have come to looking back, not some divine foresight on my part.

Last night I thought more about this and I have a few more bullets to add. Hopefully these are also helpful to you.

1. I was blessed to have parents (and a few church leaders) who were willing to openly share their failures and struggles. As one example - when I was a teenager I confessed a fairly normal teenage transgression to my bishop and was counseled to not take the sacrament for a few weeks. My father noticed this. In our ensuing discussion, he did not lambast me but instead confessed that he too had struggled with the same issue and told me of the solutions he had found. This approach made all the difference in my life. I did not lose faith in my father because of his confession. Rather, my love and faith in him grew 100 fold. I can't tell you how many times I have hit a tough spot in life and concluded, "well, my Dad pushed through this so I can too." In a nutshell, that's really what the gospel is too me.
   
2. I could go on and on about how important the reality of flawed leaders is to our gospel, but there isn't enough space. If you're interested, I would point you to the Mormon Stories interviews with Teryl Givens where he does a masterful job in explaining mormonism's radical introduction of a less-than-all-powerful God. Even a God who weeps and suffers with us. That is the example my father set for me. And because of that example, it is the understanding of God that I grew up with. I find Joseph and Brigham's failures uplifting rather than faith-shattering. God really meant it when he said he raised up Joseph to show what he could do with the weak things of the world. And if he could do that with Joseph, I have some hope too.
   
3. Somewhere through life I picked up this advice - "don't criticize something unless you have something better to offer." I've found that principle to be very helpful in approaching hard issues. It is easy to poke at other's mistakes. Too easy. What is harder, and actually productive, is to study out the context of the event and honestly ask if I would have done anything different. I find this approach not only leads to more truth, it leads to humility and empathy for those who made the mistakes.
   

Very good points once again, thanks!