116 Pages

[Rivers]

Do we have any idea what happened the 116 pages? I think I heard somewhere that they were destroyed by Mrs. Harris. Or are they just simply lost to history?

[supersnail]

Do we have any idea what happened the 116 pages? I think I heard somewhere that they were destroyed by Mrs. Harris. Or are they just simply lost to history?

I have them. Don't tell anyone else.

[blackstrap]

I have them. Don't tell anyone else.

Sorry,but yours are copies,I have the originals. They were given to me by Mrs. Harris' granddaughter's cousin's gardener.

[Duncan]

Sorry,but yours are copies,I have the originals. They were given to me by Mrs. Harris' granddaughter's cousin's gardener.

rumour has it they'll be on an upcoming episode of Storage Wars/Pawnstars cross over episode with Barry finding them and getting one million dollars of the Old man's money

[blackstrap]

Now ,let's get serious for a moment. Suppose that you were exploring an old abandoned barn on a property you just purchased back east.

You discover a depression in the dirt floor and after some effort take out a chest. Upon opening the chest you find a sealed jar and in it a hand written manuscript that has a marked resemblance to the BoM story.

WHAT DO YOU DO ????

A. Re bury it and cover any evidence of its existence

B. Take it to a local university to authenticate

C. Take it to the Smithsonian to authenticate

D. Call a lawyer

E.Call Church Headquarters

F. Call the National Enquirer

G. Other

Note: this is not a poll

[Duncan]

Now ,let's get serious for a moment. Suppose that you were exploring an old abandoned barn on a property you just purchased back east.

You discover a depression in the dirt floor and after some effort take out a chest. Upon opening the chest you find a sealed jar and in it a hand written manuscript that has a marked resemblance to the BoM story.

WHAT DO YOU DO ????

A. Re bury it and cover any evidence of its existence

B. Take it to a local university to authenticate

C. Take it to the Smithsonian to authenticate

D. Call a lawyer

E.Call Church Headquarters

F. Call the National Enquirer

G. Other

Note: this is not a poll

I am guessing the average person would just chuck it away or possibly get it checked but unless it says Book of Mormon on it they wouldn't know what it was-but I got a buddy of mine knows everything about this stuff

[The Nehor]

Now ,let's get serious for a moment. Suppose that you were exploring an old abandoned barn on a property you just purchased back east.

You discover a depression in the dirt floor and after some effort take out a chest. Upon opening the chest you find a sealed jar and in it a hand written manuscript that has a marked resemblance to the BoM story.

WHAT DO YOU DO ????

A. Re bury it and cover any evidence of its existence

B. Take it to a local university to authenticate

C. Take it to the Smithsonian to authenticate

D. Call a lawyer

E.Call Church Headquarters

F. Call the National Enquirer

G. Other

Note: this is not a poll

G. Other.

I read it several times. I make several copies, both electronic and written. Then I pray a lot. Then I start making calls.

Of course if I am struck every time I try to take them out of the ground like Joseph was with the plates I wait for an angel to tell me what to do.

[DonBradley]

No one, except maybe supersnail, really knows who took the manuscript or what became of it. The most common theory has been that Lucy Harris took the manuscript and burned it, but this explanation only became the prevalent one in the 20th century--very long after the actual events.

The first section of my book on the lost manuscript will deal with the manuscript's own history, with Chapter 4 covering the theft. I'll present evidence for and then critique the Lucy Harris theory. I'll then identify a few other likely, but hitherto unexplored, "suspects" and weigh the evidence for them. The end of the chapter, the only part of it I haven't yet written, will go into more detail about what sources said ultimately became of the manuscript and what the prospects are that it still exists and can be recovered.

Don

[supersnail]

Sorry,but yours are copies,I have the originals. They were given to me by Mrs. Harris' granddaughter's cousin's gardener.

Page 47 has a verse about bears reigning over the land. This is obviously a Super Bowl prediction and way to authenticate what I have as the real deal. So there.

[The Nehor]

Page 47 has a verse about bears reigning over the land. This is obviously a Super Bowl prediction and way to authenticate what I have as the real deal. So there.

I instead think this supports Colbert's theory that bears are the greatest threat this nation faces. They hate democracy and our freedoms.

[Carborendum]

I believe Mark Hoffman's estate has them.

[Freedom]

If they are found, they would be very difficult to authenticate, but if I found them I would be faced with the quandary of Joseph Smith. how much $$$ could I made from these?

[blackstrap]

Don,does your book deal with why Joseph did not accompany the manuscript with a couple of his bros for security? I would not have let the manuscript out of my sight.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Do we have any idea what happened the 116 pages? I think I heard somewhere that they were destroyed by Mrs. Harris. Or are they just simply lost to history?

Had Joseph retranslated them they would have come out, changed. Just as thought...when they proved of no use they were lost. If I found them I would not ever let them see the light of day knowing beforehand what would happen with them.

[The Nehor]

Okay, I have the pages. I'll give you a few snippets:

"And in the last days there shall come fools who shall multiply many meetings and shall imagine vain things in their heart thinking that for their many meetings shall their sins be forgiven or that God can be lulled by the boredom of their many meetings and forget their sins."

"In that day many shall ascend the Rameumpton on the day of fasting and make little or no mention of God. Instead they shall prattle on endlessly about the last month of their interminably dull life. Many in the congregation shall despair and seek for death but shall not find it. Behold, thus saith the Lord, if thou shalt endure it well I will exalt you on high and allow you to punch the boring git at the Last Day so they you may be cleansed of anger before entering into Eternal Life."

"In the Last Days one of the Church will write a horrible book about a boring maiden and a bloodsucking creature who inexplicably loves her. Both shall be manipulative and abusive to the other. Behold, this book is an abomination in my sight and should be burned."

"In that day many of the Church shall gather and provide food that will not nourish and will not give strength to the body. Nevertheless they shall vainly pray that this food will nourish and strengthen and imagine that for their much speaking it shall be done. Behold, I the Lord, am not well pleased and will not make your cookies and soda nourishing."

Don't tell anyone I gave you this.

[Robert F. Smith]

Now ,let's get serious for a moment. Suppose that you were exploring an old abandoned barn on a property you just purchased back east.

You discover a depression in the dirt floor and after some effort take out a chest. Upon opening the chest you find a sealed jar and in it a hand written manuscript that has a marked resemblance to the BoM story.

WHAT DO YOU DO ????

A. Re bury it and cover any evidence of its existence

B. Take it to a local university to authenticate

C. Take it to the Smithsonian to authenticate

D. Call a lawyer

E.Call Church Headquarters

F. Call the National Enquirer

G. Other

G. Compare it to Don Bradley's forthcoming book on the 116 pages, or

G. Consult with Mark Hoffman at the point of the mountain to see if he will give it his imprimatur.

[Carborendum]

Nehor,

I often don't agree with you. But I just had to give you a point for that one.

[ANACO]

Elder Oaks stated:

Martin’s persistent requests to show this manuscript to his family wearied Joseph into letting him take it to Palmyra, where its pages were stolen from him, lost, and probably burned.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1999/04/the-witness-martin-harris?lang=eng

[cinepro]

No one, except maybe supersnail, really knows who took the manuscript or what became of it. The most common theory has been that Lucy Harris took the manuscript and burned it, but this explanation only became the prevalent one in the 20th century--very long after the actual events.

The first section of my book on the lost manuscript will deal with the manuscript's own history, with Chapter 4 covering the theft. I'll present evidence for and then critique the Lucy Harris theory. I'll then identify a few other likely, but hitherto unexplored, "suspects" and weigh the evidence for them. The end of the chapter, the only part of it I haven't yet written, will go into more detail about what sources said ultimately became of the manuscript and what the prospects are that it still exists and can be recovered.

Don

I'm confused. Didn't God tell us what happened to the manuscript in D&C 10?

Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Harmony, Pennsylvania, in the summer of 1828 (see History of the Church, 1:20–23). Herein the Lord informs Joseph of alterations made by wicked men in the 116 manuscript pages from the translation of the book of Lehi, in the Book of Mormon. These manuscript pages had been lost from the possession of Martin Harris, to whom the sheets had been temporarily entrusted. (See the heading to section 3.) The evil design was to await the expected retranslation of the matter covered by the stolen pages and then to discredit the translator by showing discrepancies created by the alterations. That this wicked purpose had been conceived by the evil one and was known to the Lord even while Mormon, the ancient Nephite historian, was making his abridgment of the accumulated plates, is shown in the Book of Mormon (see Words of Mormon 1:3–7).

Does your research support this plot Don?

[Rivers]

I'm confused. Didn't God tell us what happened to the manuscript in D&C 10?

I wonder who the "wicked men" are.

[ERayR]

I wonder who the "wicked men" are.

I could name names but then I would have to go into witness protection.

[phaedrus ut]

For the explanation of events to work doesn't it seem to require that the wicked men believe that Joseph not only has the plates but that he has the power of translation. So with the belief that Joseph has ancient plates and magical translating powers they still attempt to be evil and they, and apparently god, are confident they can alter Martin Harris' handwritten work in ink.

But by writing a redundant version of events, on metal plates that Moroni had to carry, God foiled the plan of these evil men and apparently this and all other forge to discredit Joseph plans ended.

Makes complete sense.

Phaedrus

Edited August 15, 2012 by phaedrus ut

[cinepro]

For the explanation of events to work doesn't it seem to require that the wicked men believe that Joseph not only has the plates but that he has the power of translation. So with the belief that Joseph has ancient plates and magical translating powers they still attempt to be evil and they, and apparently god, are confident they can alter Martin Harris' handwritten work in ink.

But by writing a redundant version of events, on metal plates that Moroni had to carry, God foiled the plan of these evil men and apparently this and all other forge to discredit Joseph plans ended.

Makes complete sense.

Phaedrus

Not only that, but the plan depended on Joseph not being familiar with the theories of "loose" translation that future LDS apologists would adopt, else he could just explain that the differences were due to him being influenced by his language and culture and the latitude given him to use words and phrases familiar to him.

I also admire the thought and foresight adopted by the perpetrators. They were willing to hold on to the 116 pages, biding their time while Joseph painstakingly retranslated them, at which point they would show their pages to the world, and the world would obviously be convinced by the men who had stolen the pages and altered the ink-penned words. With patience and foresight like that, they would make formidable chess players.

[cinepro]

It's also not clear how the plan unraveled. At what point did these men find out about Words of Mormon and the Small Plates of Nephi? Was it shortly after Joseph began retranslating? Or did they go down to Grandin's the day the book went on sale, giddy with anticipation of their plan finally coming to fruition after two years, only to find their plan frustrated by Moroni's switcheroo?

[Duncan]

It's also not clear how the plan unraveled. At what point did these men find out about Words of Mormon and the Small Plates of Nephi? Was it shortly after Joseph began retranslating? Or did they go down to Grandin's the day the book went on sale, giddy with anticipation of their plan finally coming to fruition after two years, only to find their plan frustrated by Moroni's switcheroo?

all this and more on the next episode of Dallas!