Freedom Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 I am always leery of people who are too passionate about a subject, even if it is a subject I am passionate about. The strongest opponents to scouting are former passionate scouters. The same is true of Amway, school PAC's and any number of other causes. A lack of balance. We sometimes malign members who are not 'informed' but perhaps they simply have better balance and, rather than reading all the academia, they spend their time reading to their children and visiting friends in the hospital. A fellow I know surprised my when he said he did't believe Joseph or Brigham ever practiced polygamy. He happily serves and loves his children. They have all grown into responsible adults. Perhaps all this apologia is much ado about nothing. 3
CV75 Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 (edited) You will love this...Yes, that is a great poem; thank you for posting it.A cesspool is lower and stinkier than a sinkhole, though. Edited May 15, 2012 by CV75
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Yes, that is a great poem; thank you for posting it.A cesspool is lower and stinkier than a sinkhole, though.I know I am currently doing inspections on a pump station (30 stories deep in the earth) next to a sewage treatment plant, if the wind is blowing North...bad day.
CV75 Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 I know I am currently doing inspections on a pump station (30 stories deep in the earth) next to a sewage treatment plant, if the wind is blowing North...bad day. I'm sure you can use that to illustrate a principle of truth in a lesson or talk someday! Let me know how it goes!
rpn Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 Why do we spend almost two pages criticizing someone, on a thread intended to right unjust criticism? 1
wenglund Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 Why do we spend almost two pages criticizing someone, on a thread intended to right unjust criticism?Assuming you dubious assessment of the thread is correct, justified criticism is a valid counter to unjust criticism. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Daniel Peterson Posted May 16, 2012 Author Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) This seems as good a place as any to register my on-going amazement:It strikes me as something right out of The Twilight Zone to watch folks over at the Stalker/Kishkumen/Xander board incessantly fretting, lamenting, and tut-tutting about the supposedly bad tone at FAIR and the Maxwell Institute.They regularly mistreat the handful of believing LDS who (for reasons that I honestly can't fathom) persist in posting there, and routinely resort to really harsh rhetoric and insulting language of a kind that has never appeared in anything ever published by FAIR or the Maxwell Institute (and that I, for instance, monster of monsters though I am, never use at all), in order to express their tender-hearted disappointment at the terrible behavior of "mopologists" (which is, itself, a demeaning and insulting epithet)."FAIR's inability to understand their tone issues," reads the title of one thread there.Whether it's precisely a case of Freudian projection or not, I don't know. (I'm not really a Freudian believer, myself, let alone an orthodox Freudian exegete.) But it seems deeply ironic, and appears to indicate a remarkable lack of introspection and self-awareness.This spectacle has bemused me for years now. I find it genuinely unaccountable.. Edited May 16, 2012 by Daniel Peterson 2
KevinG Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 Daniel, Daniel, Daniel...You fail to grasp the offensiveness of your continued defense of the evil Morg which started the fight when Joseph Smith declared war on all religion and reason.In short the Mopologists deserve the ridicule and scorn of all thinking people for their continued Kool-aid pushing.(Did I get that right?)
CASteinman Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 I find it genuinely unaccountable.I do not believe much mystery remains if you consider that some people are evil and behave according to the darkness within them. I know its not popular to say that anyone is evil. Supposedly they are just "hurt", or "ill", or somehow legitimately "grieved" and so on. I don't have a good handle on why it is hard for people to just recognize that, as Jesus spoke, "The evil man brings out evil from the evil treasure that is in his heart ... [his] lips speak from the fullness of [his] heart.” Or to misquote Forrest Gump, "Evil is as Evil does". 1
Calm Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 I do not believe much mystery remains if you consider that some people are evil and behave according to the darkness within them. I know its not popular to say that anyone is evil. Supposedly they are just "hurt", or "ill", or somehow legitimately "grieved" and so on. I don't have a good handle on why it is hard for people to just recognize that, as Jesus spoke, "The evil man brings out evil from the evil treasure that is in his heart ... [his] lips speak from the fullness of [his] heart.” Or to misquote Forrest Gump, "Evil is as Evil does".I think the problem for that conclusions is when the one being judged is also known to bring forth good fruit in that s/he are kind and generous in many other situations.
CASteinman Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 I think the problem for that conclusions is when the one being judged is also known to bring forth good fruit in that s/he are kind and generous in many other situations.Human evil is actually a problem in so many ways, including its ability to camouflage. Kind hearted, good people, are susceptible to these diversionary tactics.One of the things I am deeply grateful for is that relatively few evil people fully act out -- or perhaps I should say they do not notably act out -- on the darkness inside them. They "conform" to get along. As long as you can keep them at arms length, you can be somewhat safe. For this, I am truly grateful.
Calm Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 I don't see there being that many truly evil people out there, I assume that most who truly delight in doing evil didn't make it past their first estate. Speculation of course.
mercyngrace Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 I do not believe much mystery remains if you consider that some people are evil and behave according to the darkness within them. I know its not popular to say that anyone is evil. Supposedly they are just "hurt", or "ill", or somehow legitimately "grieved" and so on. I don't have a good handle on why it is hard for people to just recognize that, as Jesus spoke, "The evil man brings out evil from the evil treasure that is in his heart ... [his] lips speak from the fullness of [his] heart.” Or to misquote Forrest Gump, "Evil is as Evil does".Well, Nephi seemed to believe God could save all of us. And I pray the Father in the name of Christ that many of us, if not all, may be saved in his kingdom at that great and last day.For all my faults, I guess I'm like Nephi in this way. I have a hard time giving up on anyone. 1
Libs Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) I agree with Cal and MnG.I believe what we, sometimes, call "evil" is often something else....hurt, pain, grief, misunderstanding, ignorance, etc..That doesn't make it okay for people to hurt others or speak untruths about them, though, even though they may be hurting, themselves. We are always, ultimately, responsible for our own behavior (as adults). But, it's too simplistic, I think, to just dismiss someone as "evil". And, I do believe our Heavenly Father is "saving" us all. We are all a work in progress. Edited May 16, 2012 by Libs 1
CASteinman Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 Well, Nephi seemed to believe God could save all of us. And I pray the Father in the name of Christ that many of us, if not all, may be saved in his kingdom at that great and last day.For all my faults, I guess I'm like Nephi in this way. I have a hard time giving up on anyone.I note that Nephi is not exactly saying that he believes God could save us all. He would hope it is all, but if it can't be all, can it please be most? I know my position is not politically correct or popular. Maybe it is wrong. But I would need to have that revealed to me in some way. As for giving up -- I don't really "give up". Even if people deserve death, there is always the Spirit World. But I believe it is a waste of time to work with anyone who does not make and keep some commitment to move toward the light. In those cases, I don't feel like it is giving up to say "they need time to change -- and I will give it to them".
why me Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 For all my faults, I guess I'm like Nephi in this way. I have a hard time giving up on anyone.I would hope that you will challenge the more mocking and bashing posts on the other board now that you are posting there. People on that board do need some saving. However, if you ignore or show support for their more rabid posts, I may find you to be a hypocrite.For example, who would you want to save? On the other board, there are exmos and NOMs. Are they fair game to save? And would you be trying to save them and bring them back into the fold? Or are we over here fair game for you to save?
Calm Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 I would hope that you will challenge the more mocking and bashing posts on the other board now that you are posting there. People on that board do need some saving. However, if you ignore or show support for their more rabid posts, I may find you to be a hypocrite.Mercy posted there as a favour to me to help with transferring some criticisms posted there to here. As far as I know that is pretty much the limit of her current involvement and if so, you are demanding something of her inappropriately.
why me Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 But, it's too simplistic, I think, to just dismiss someone as "evil". And, I do believe our Heavenly Father is "saving" us all. We are all a work in progress.Would you say this about a murderer or a rapist who does not want to repent? His he or she a work in progress? Can such people be dismissed as evil? If people are actively attempting to lead people out of the church, are they also a work in progress and heavenly father will save them in the end?
why me Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 Mercy posted there as a favour to me to help with transferring some criticisms posted there to here. As far as I know that is pretty much the limit of her current involvement and if so, you are demanding something of her inappropriately.I understand. But I think that she will be posting there a little more now because she has found a friend. And that is fine. It is just that I have found that people who quote verses about never giving up on someone etc, tend to ignore the people who actually need saving when they are posting on the internet. Words are just words but actions are actions. Lets see what happens.
why me Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 What is the purpose of this thread?To respond in support of someone who has been attacked on a different board.
why me Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 I note that Nephi is not exactly saying that he believes God could save us all. He would hope it is all, but if it can't be all, can it please be most? I know my position is not politically correct or popular. Maybe it is wrong. But I would need to have that revealed to me in some way. As for giving up -- I don't really "give up". Even if people deserve death, there is always the Spirit World. But I believe it is a waste of time to work with anyone who does not make and keep some commitment to move toward the light. In those cases, I don't feel like it is giving up to say "they need time to change -- and I will give it to them".Nephi more or less is stressing the many at the expense of the all. But by saying 'if not all', he has hope that it can be even more than many. Some people never change and some people can continue to change for the worse as time goes by.
Daniel Peterson Posted May 16, 2012 Author Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) What is the purpose of this thread?I launched it in order to publicly contradict serious charges that had been leveled against me on a board where I don't participate, but of which many here are aware.. Edited May 16, 2012 by Daniel Peterson
Thinking Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 To respond in support of someone who has been attacked on a different board.It seems to be an attack thread.
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