How Do You Un-Ring A "Bell"

[Craig Paxton]

I've been frequenting this board off and on now for going on four years or so. For the most part my experience has been a positive one. But despite the hundreds of posts I’ve read, the arguments supporting church claims made and the positions expressed by both believers and non-believers, I cannot for the life of me make Mormonism’s claims believable again.

So today, as I was pondering this reality…I was curious if anyone here has ever been persuaded by the arguments made at Mormon Dialogue in defense of the church to return to belief after having lost that belief. In other words has someone like me…a former believer turned non-believer, dare I say apostate, ever been able to again believe in the claims of Mormonism after having lost that belief? If so? Please step forward…and explain what it was the allowed you to again find belief. What were the things that caused your disbelief and what was said here or arguments presented that helped you change your mind.

Shy of Moroni appearing in the flesh, I can’t think of anything that would change my current views regarding Mormon truth claims…but never say never…so IF you are out there and have been where I am…how did you find a path back to belief…how did you un-ring the bell.

[Duncan]

wasn't there a Bro. Diaz, I think his poster name was, into that whole scene? I haven't seen him around here for a awhile

[T-Shirt]

I think Don Bradley fits the bill.

[Kenngo1969]

A few years ago, there was a poster named Moxy who was skeptical, had an epiphany, came on, announced his reconversion, thanked those on the Board who had a hand in it, and disappeared, never to be heard from since.

[blackstrap]

Laman and Lemuel had an angel appear to them,....didn't help. If Moroni was to appear to you I suspect you would have more questions than answers.

"Fool me once,shame on you!Fool me twice,shame on me! " ( to misquote George W.)

[Mudcat]

I've been frequenting this board off and on now for going on four years or so. For the most part my experience has been a positive one. But despite the hundreds of posts I’ve read, the arguments supporting church claims made and the positions expressed by both believers and non-believers, I cannot for the life of me make Mormonism’s claims believable again.

So today, as I was pondering this reality…I was curious if anyone here has ever been persuaded by the arguments made at Mormon Dialogue in defense of the church to return to belief after having lost that belief. In other words has someone like me…a former believer turned non-believer, dare I say apostate, ever been able to again believe in the claims of Mormonism after having lost that belief? If so? Please step forward…and explain what it was the allowed you to again find belief. What were the things that caused your disbelief and what was said here or arguments presented that helped you change your mind.

Shy of Moroni appearing in the flesh, I can’t think of anything that would change my current views regarding Mormon truth claims…but never say never…so IF you are out there and have been where I am…how did you find a path back to belief…how did you un-ring the bell.

Hi Craig,

As you likely know, I am not LDS. However I have had a similar journey in my own Evangelical faith, in that I went from some sort of belief, to disbelief, to belief.

I was raised in a Southern Baptist tradition and left the faith in my late teens to become agnostic though "weak atheism" would likely be a more fair description. There wasn't a magic bullet.. or specific "Aha!" moment that allowed me to conclude that Christianity wasn't a reality, though I would say that the Problem of Evil and Suffering was the fulcrum of the situation.

I can only sympathize with those who have abandoned faith for what they feel is good reason. I have been there and it made perfect sense to me at the time so certainly don't discount or try to be derisive of such view points.

The reason I came "back" to faith was because of a very radical series of events that the Holy Spirit used as evidence of sorts. It wasn't a "Moroni appearing in the flesh" moment.. but Paul on the road to Damascus had it's similarities to my experience.

I am not sure if "coming back to faith" is the right wording though. It was more like coming to a true faith.

I guess the best way to explain it would be to say that growing up and in my youth I was offered by others a fundamental, Southern Baptist view. It became untennable for me so I kicked it to the curb and didn't really know what do after that other than just be me. Later Christ presented himself to me in a way that sort of "fit" things and I accepted him. Since then I have tried to take the ball and run with it, though I have had my fumbles along the way. I didn't return to faith... in that I am staunch fundamentalist Southern Baptist or something. Bit of a lib actually, I suppose. However, I am more than just me, I am me with Christ.

IMO, Christ is completely willing to take us for who we are and where we are in life. But I think sometimes we have to figure out exactly where that is first. I don't want to disparage fundamental SBCers anymore than LDS, many have found and hold faith through such means. I also think there are LDS who believe what they believe for reasons similar to why I believe what I do.

But for some, it is really hard to take what has been given them. It seems to lack original thought and leaves one accepting anothers view rather than their own. I was that way.. still am. For some, we have to find it on our own. Based on my own experience, for those like that, God is willing to reach out to us when the time is right.

To go with your metaphor, I don't think there is a good way to unring a bell. Wish you the best on your journey.

Mudcat

[mercyngrace]

I am not sure if "coming back to faith" is the right wording though. It was more like coming to a true faith.

This is exactly how I would describe my own experience.

[Cold Steel]

I was curious if anyone here has ever been persuaded by the arguments made at Mormon Dialogue in defense of the church to return to belief after having lost that belief. In other words has someone like me…a former believer turned non-believer, dare I say apostate, ever been able to again believe in the claims of Mormonism after having lost that belief?

Elder John A. Widsoe once said that testimonies aren't lost...they're taken. I've generally found that's true.

.

[Stargazer]

I don't know if it is comparable, but I went from vaguely Christian religious faith to acquiring a testimony of the LDS church. Nothing I have heard here or anywhere else has swayed me from it, either.

I don't know where you and I differ such that you lost your faith and I have kept mine and even strengthened it.

I wish I could help you on that, bro.

[Libs]

Elder John A. Widsoe once said that testimonies aren't lost...they're taken. I've generally found that's true.

.

Taken by God, you mean? Or Satan?

Regarding getting help from this board, I was encouraged, for awhile, by a book written by Michael Ash, that was advertised here, entitled "Shaken Faith Syndrome". I went back to the church for about six months, after reading that book. It wasn't lasting, but I did read the Book of Mormon, again, and really tried to bolster my faith. It was too soon, I think. Even though the book gave me some new perspectives to consider, I just wasn't really ready. It's a good book. I would recommend it to anyone having doubts.

I, also, often enjoy Dr. Peterson's articles and his presence here. I've also read with interest many of the stories on "Mormon Scholars Testify". Some interesting stories there.

I don't know that any of that would persuade me to go back, but...I wouldn't say that's a complete impossibility. Plus, my visiting teacher is always praying for me, she tells me. She is convinced that I will return. lol So, who knows? I don't want to go back and have to leave again, so I would have to be very sure, if I tried it again.

[Duncan]

Taken by God, you mean? Or Satan?

Regarding getting help from this board, I was encouraged, for awhile, by a book written by Michael Ash, that was advertised here, entitled "Shaken Faith Syndrome". I went back to the church for about six months, after reading that book. It wasn't lasting, but I did read the Book of Mormon, again, and really tried to bolster my faith. It was too soon, I think. Even though the book gave me some new perspectives to consider, I just wasn't really ready. It's a good book. I would recommend it to anyone having doubts.

I, also, often enjoy Dr. Peterson's articles and his presence here. I've also read with interest many of the stories on "Mormon Scholars Testify". Some interesting stories there.

I don't know that any of that would persuade me to go back, but...I wouldn't say that's a complete impossibility. Plus, my visiting teacher is always praying for me, she tells me. She is convinced that I will return. lol So, who knows? I don't want to go back and have to leave again, so I would have to be very sure, if I tried it again.

if you don't mind me asking what are you looking for?

[KevinG]

I wouldn't look to boards like this for a conversion or testimony. That comes from God.

What I would seek and do seek here is sorting out the large amount of information out there to find out more about my faith. I've learned from critics and scholars alike.

[Storm Rider]

I've been frequenting this board off and on now for going on four years or so. For the most part my experience has been a positive one. But despite the hundreds of posts I’ve read, the arguments supporting church claims made and the positions expressed by both believers and non-believers, I cannot for the life of me make Mormonism’s claims believable again.

So today, as I was pondering this reality…I was curious if anyone here has ever been persuaded by the arguments made at Mormon Dialogue in defense of the church to return to belief after having lost that belief. In other words has someone like me…a former believer turned non-believer, dare I say apostate, ever been able to again believe in the claims of Mormonism after having lost that belief? If so? Please step forward…and explain what it was the allowed you to again find belief. What were the things that caused your disbelief and what was said here or arguments presented that helped you change your mind.

Shy of Moroni appearing in the flesh, I can’t think of anything that would change my current views regarding Mormon truth claims…but never say never…so IF you are out there and have been where I am…how did you find a path back to belief…how did you un-ring the bell.

Craig, the only thing that keeps me in the Church is faith; faith that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter, and that the Plan of Salvation is true. I see no purpose in listing all that I find unacceptable or not true in the LDS Church; however, I can tell you that having looked at all other churches, this is my home. There are things here I can't find elsewhere.

I hope that you find peace.

[wenglund]

I've been frequenting this board off and on now for going on four years or so. For the most part my experience has been a positive one. But despite the hundreds of posts I’ve read, the arguments supporting church claims made and the positions expressed by both believers and non-believers, I cannot for the life of me make Mormonism’s claims believable again.

I can certainly understand how this may happen.

In a way, the issues we tend to dwell on here (i.e. somewhat irrelevant to the intent and purposes of the church), and the way in which we dwell on them (intellectually), tends to be distractions to matters of "true faith," and may inadvertantly reinforce certain false perceptions about spiritual prioties and the process of growth in faith, and even lend itself, in some cases, to lose of faith.

While we apologists, with the best of intents, may provide some wiggle room for faith, and answer some nagging questions (satisfactorly or unsatisfactorly), as a rule, the only way to rightly return to the faith, and the way that God has established for returning or gaining and growing in faith, is in supplication with him (Moroni 10) and by living the precepts he has revealed (Alma 32). Simple as that.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited January 25, 2012 by wenglund

[Libs]

if you don't mind me asking what are you looking for?

Not sure I understand the question. What am I looking for....that would bring me back into the church, you mean?

I'm not really, actively, looking at anything, right now. I'm resting from all of that.

[Duncan]

Not sure I understand the question. What am I looking for....that would bring me back into the church, you mean?

I'm not really, actively, looking at anything, right now. I'm resting from all of that.

well, you seem to have quite the history with the Church and what would I dunno confirm in your mind to stay or leave, like what kind would stabilize you religiously? granted we all have ups and downs with people and understandings but

[Libs]

well, you seem to have quite the history with the Church and what would I dunno confirm in your mind to stay or leave, like what kind would stabilize you religiously? granted we all have ups and downs with people and understandings but

I really don't know at this point. Craig mentioned seeing Moroni in the flesh? Seriously, it would take an act of God.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Shy of Moroni appearing in the flesh, I can’t think of anything that would change my current views regarding Mormon truth claims….

I'd be willing to bet large sums of money which I don't even have that, were Moroni (or another angel) to appear to you in the flesh, you'd conclude that you'd experienced a vivid dream.

[Storm Rider]

Visions are never good enough. What converts the soul to Christ? The Holy Spirit and we have the choice to let him in or to close the door. We choose and we live with the consequences.

[zerinus]

I've been frequenting this board off and on now for going on four years or so. For the most part my experience has been a positive one. But despite the hundreds of posts I’ve read, the arguments supporting church claims made and the positions expressed by both believers and non-believers, I cannot for the life of me make Mormonism’s claims believable again. . . .

Nothing that anyone can say can prove to you that Mormonism is true. The purpose of Mormon apologetics is not to prove that Mormonism is true, but to counter the arguments that it is false.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I've been frequenting this board off and on now for going on four years or so. For the most part my experience has been a positive one. But despite the hundreds of posts I’ve read, the arguments supporting church claims made and the positions expressed by both believers and non-believers, I cannot for the life of me make Mormonism’s claims believable again.

So today, as I was pondering this reality…I was curious if anyone here has ever been persuaded by the arguments made at Mormon Dialogue in defense of the church to return to belief after having lost that belief. In other words has someone like me…a former believer turned non-believer, dare I say apostate, ever been able to again believe in the claims of Mormonism after having lost that belief? If so? Please step forward…and explain what it was the allowed you to again find belief. What were the things that caused your disbelief and what was said here or arguments presented that helped you change your mind.

Shy of Moroni appearing in the flesh, I can’t think of anything that would change my current views regarding Mormon truth claims…but never say never…so IF you are out there and have been where I am…how did you find a path back to belief…how did you un-ring the bell.

Human beings go through cycles in their lives, just as marriages do. Sometimes it is from too much information or too little. But it does and must happen. There is a great book called; “The stages of Faith”…I hope I remember the name correctly. I think there is too much evidence to completely jettison all of our beliefs. Some get caught up in the thinking that "Joseph is not what I was taught"; in that respect I think the Church has done harm in the past by portraying him in a "Washingtonian" fashion; you remember remarks concerning him…“I cannot tell a lie”! (Bull) Joseph was flawed man just as all men are, this is all God has to work with, so he does. Some individuals like, Richard Bushman have sought to “humanize” Joseph Smith. I am even more impressed with what Joseph accomplished, despite his weaknesses.

Two scriptures I would like to bring to mind, one from the Bible and one from the Book of Mormon.

One speaks of “doubting Thomas”, when Christ said…”Ye have seen and believed, more blessed are those who have not seen and believe”.

The other asks this question…

Alma 5: 26

And now behold, I say unto you, my brethren, if ye have experienced a change of heart, and if ye have felt to sing the song of redeeming love, I would ask, can ye feel so now?

If you do not believe at all, I don’t think that seeing Moroni would help.

Edited...I should do some proof reading before posting.

But my weaknesses are legion!!!!!

Edited January 25, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Darth_Bill]

I think seeing Moroni would be a completely different experience. I can't believe having doubt if I saw Moroni. That honestly is why I think Lamen and Lemuel are charicatures, not real people. Seeing an angel and having him spank you would pretty much change your life.

I don't think you can unring a bell, but it depends on what bell was rung. I greatly admire JS. I think he was generally a good man. I just can't understand the atonement and the concept of sin. That has been looked at for 2000 years and even the prophets don't really address the underlying concept of punishing an innocent man for the flaws of others and how that all works. I'm not looking for an answer anytime soon. Once that thought gets put in the skull, I don't know how to worm it out.

I did an exercise once and wrote the things about the church that I didn't understand or doubts and it was a free-flow, stream of consciousness type thing. It opened my eyes on what my relationship to the church really was and it was refreshing to be honest about it. I'm not an idiot. I've been involved with apologetics and FAIR for 10 years. I have a good library. My issues are doctrinal, as I don't have a lifestyle issue at all. I'm still working out where exactly I am. I also find it very hard to have serious conversations about it with friends. It is disturbing to them, and I don't want to upset their lives. As my wife said, I upset people's whole view of life and death and most don't want to look at things too deeply.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I think seeing Moroni would be a completely different experience. I can't believe having doubt if I saw Moroni.

And how, two hours after the event, would you know you'd actually seen anything?

[Hamba Tuhan]

I just can't understand the atonement and the concept of sin. That has been looked at for 2000 years and even the prophets don't really address the underlying concept of punishing an innocent man for the flaws of others and how that all works.

I'm a historian, so I don't understand how many things work, like the computer I'm typing on at this very moment or the TV my housemate just switched on in his bedroom. But I've repeatedly experienced that they do work. May I respectfully suggest that you might get further in comprehending the reality of the Atonement by engaging it than by theorising upon it?

[Darth_Bill]

I'm a historian, so I don't understand how many things work, like the computer I'm typing on at this very moment or the TV my housemate just switched on in his bedroom. But I've repeatedly experienced that they do work. May I respectfully suggest that you might get further in comprehending the reality of the Atonement by engaging it than by theorising upon it?

Like what? Having a "born again" experience. I've gone through that. I've been a member for 40 years, RM and everything. I don't know what this "engaging" it is or what you may mean by it. By theorizing it is trying to understand it, not just feeling the emotion of it. I don't understand how slapping or killing person A for what person B did is in any way justice. I understand the emotion behind it. I understand the deep desire of a person to change their path. I'm just separating my desires to what is really being presented. If killing animals didn't take away sin, then killing a god wouldn't do it either, as it is just a matter of scale. And how can anyone take my character flaws away from me? Character flaws, which I am told, I need to rid myself of anyway. I am an engineer, and I have a deep need to know how something works. If I don't understand it, it is less real to me. I loved Ostler's books on Mormon thought and it really made me look at myself and my relationship to deity in a more profound way, along with some other deeply personal times in my life.