“If You Could Hie To Kolob”

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I’ve included a poll, so you can choose one of my answers or you can post one of your own.

Besides being a wonderful song, it “is” Mormon Doctrine, that the name of the star closest to the throne of God is called (named) Kolob.

I have read many threads on this topic and some of Nibley’s writings on the topic, also articles here on FAIR.

Of this most “unimportant doctrine” to those outside our faith, it is the one that is the butt of many jokes and crude comments; WHY?

I have included two links to focus and lighten the mood at the same time.

Comments?

[Libs]

I think it's the idea that God exists within this physical universe, as a physical being, that is so bothersome to some.

[Libs]

Personally, I think it's a beautiful song.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Personally, I think it's a beautiful song.

Very much so...

[BCSpace]

Of this most “unimportant doctrine” to those outside our faith, it is the one that is the butt of many jokes and crude comments; WHY?

Because the name sounds strange to the modern ear and so it catches their attention.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Because the name sounds strange to the modern ear and so it catches their attention.

Like the ones in the video? You know to this day, whoever finds it gets to name it.

[mapman]

I think that people think it's weird because when they think of planets, they also think of all the science-fiction stuff associated with that. And also as Libs said, many find it weird to think of God actually living somewhere near a planet. I don't know; personally, I think it's really cool.

[Nathair/|\]

I think Kolob is, like polygamy, simply a welcome stick they can use to attack us with. I think the real concerns are the same as those that have always been used against the Prophets, the ones that so enraged the people against Lehi, Jeremiah, Abinadi, Elijah and especially Jesus Christ.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I think that people think it's weird because when they think of planets, they also think of all the science-fiction stuff associated with that. And also as Libs said, many find it weird to think of God actually living somewhere near a planet. I don't know; personally, I think it's really cool.

The odd thing is, when Stephen was being stoned to death and Saul (Paul) was standing nearby, the scriptures say that he "looked steadfastly into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Christ standing on the right hand of God" (From memorey, sorry if misquoted). This shows a discribes two being both of which could be reconized.

[Alla]

I think it's the idea that God exists within this physical universe, as a physical being, that is so bothersome to some.

I agree with Libs. It is too strange to many believers that God has body of flesh and bones. Or that He lives on the planet.

Many believe that God is not made of matter. It is strange for them that spirit is also matter.

I think they make fun of it because they believe that it is redicuolus to believe in this kind of "fantasy".

P.S.This hymn is one of my favorite from a moment I sang it for the first time on sacrament meeting. My daughter and I listen it very often on you-tube. It makes me feel":Ah, home sweet home."

[3DOP]

Non-Mormon critics are angry about hieing to Kolob?

I can imagine amused, curious, skeptical, or even afraid. But it seems difficult to believe that the non-Mormons are "so angry" about "hieing", "Kolob" or both.

[why me]

Since critics claim that the church hides the fact about Kolob, it is difficult to defend this assertion since there is a lds hymn about it. Thus, the critic negative reaction to the song.

[cinepro]

Since critics claim that the church hides the fact about Kolob, it is difficult to defend this assertion since there is a lds hymn about it. Thus, the critic negative reaction to the song.

CFR that critics have ever claimed the Church "hides the fact" about Kolob.

[Sargon]

I chose the first option, that "Joseph dared name a star, without checking with the “National Star Registry”". I chose it because it is closest to what I think, though not exact.

I think critics get a kick out of "Kolob" because it has a sci-fi feel to it. In their minds it lumps Joseph in with the likes of Ron L. Hubbard.

[Bernard Gui]

Non-Mormon critics are angry about hieing to Kolob?

I can imagine amused, curious, skeptical, or even afraid. But it seems difficult to believe that the non-Mormons are "so angry" about "hieing", "Kolob" or both.

If you believe Jesus was resurrected with the same body he had in mortality, where is it now?

Bernard

[Bernard Gui]

The music to "If you could hie to Kolob." is an arrangement of a folk song

by Ralph Vaughan Williams, a famous 20th-century English composer.

I recommend his music to anyone who wants an uplift...The Lark Ascending, Fantasia on Greensleeves,

Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis (IMO the greatest piece written for string orchestra), a wonderful

but little performed opera "Pilgrim's Progress" with surprisingly LDS touches, and of course

"Five Variants on Dives and Lazarus," which uses the folk song that is the source of the "Hie to Kolob"

melody. If you like the hymn tune, you will be overwhelmed by this orchestral masterpiece.

I wish Vaughan Williams had been LDS. IMO he is one of the greatest writers of sacred music, for example,

the Christmas oratorio "Hodie." His music has an unparalleled sense of reverence and tranquility.

Curiously, though, he was agnostic.

Bernard

PS: the Hie to Kolob melody in the former hymn book......abysmal.

[Bernard Gui]

I’ve included a poll, so you can choose one of my answers or you can post one of your own.

Besides being a wonderful song, it “is” Mormon Doctrine, that the name of the star closest to the throne of God is called (named) Kolob.

I have read many threads on this topic and some of Nibley’s writings on the topic, also articles here on FAIR.

Of this most “unimportant doctrine” to those outside our faith, it is the one that is the butt of many jokes and crude comments; WHY?

IMO, that there is such a place as Kolob is one of the most wonderful concepts in LDS theology. That I could go there and then continue

on after this life to assist God in his magnificent works in the universe....

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110511.html

no words can describe what this could be like. To have a share in the very being of God!

Bernard

[Libs]

The music to "If you could hie to Kolob." is an arrangement of a folk song

by Ralph Vaughan Williams, a famous 20th-century English composer.

I recommend his music to anyone who wants an uplift...The Lark Ascending, Fantasia on Greensleeves,

Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis (IMO the greatest piece written for string orchestra), a wonderful

but little performed opera "Pilgrim's Progress" with surprisingly LDS touches, and of course

"Five Variants on Dives and Lazarus," which uses the folk song that is the source of the "Hie to Kolob"

melody. If you like the hymn tune, you will be overwhelmed by this orchestral masterpiece.

I wish Vaughan Williams had been LDS. IMO he is one of the greatest writers of sacred music, for example,

the Christmas oratorio "Hodie." His music has an unparalleled sense of reverence and tranquility.

Curiously, though, he was agnostic.

Bernard

PS: the Hie to Kolob melody in the former hymn book......abysmal.

That's interesting. I didn't know there was a former version of Hie to Kolob.

I really like this current version (the music and the words). Think I will look up Vaughan Williams.

[Calm]

CFR that critics have ever claimed the Church "hides the fact" about Kolob.

If you want to check out the Mormon Curtain, the claim is made there.

On Mormon Mentality a similar claim is made, not outright hiding, but being deceptive about it.

[3DOP]

If you believe Jesus was resurrected with the same body he had in mortality, where is it now?

Bernard

Hi Bernard.

Your reply puzzles me. How does this speak to my doubt regarding the pre-supposition of the opening post that non-LDS critics are "so angry" about this song or the concepts it expresses?

[mapman]

The music to "If you could hie to Kolob." is an arrangement of a folk song

by Ralph Vaughan Williams, a famous 20th-century English composer.

I recommend his music to anyone who wants an uplift...The Lark Ascending, Fantasia on Greensleeves,

Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis (IMO the greatest piece written for string orchestra), a wonderful

but little performed opera "Pilgrim's Progress" with surprisingly LDS touches, and of course

"Five Variants on Dives and Lazarus," which uses the folk song that is the source of the "Hie to Kolob"

melody. If you like the hymn tune, you will be overwhelmed by this orchestral masterpiece.

I wish Vaughan Williams had been LDS. IMO he is one of the greatest writers of sacred music, for example,

the Christmas oratorio "Hodie." His music has an unparalleled sense of reverence and tranquility.

Curiously, though, he was agnostic.

Bernard

PS: the Hie to Kolob melody in the former hymn book......abysmal.

I agree, Vaughan Williams is one of my favorite composers (so is his buddy Gustav Holst). When I was a little kid I used to think If You Could Hie to Kolob was creepy, but now that I have a better idea of what it is talking about (I think) it is a favorite of mine. The tune is beautiful.

For anyone interested, "Five Variants of Dives and Lazarus" can be heard

. It's a wonderful song.

[Garden Girl]

This is one of my favorites...

I find the words hopeful, beautiful... comforting...

There is no end to virtue

There is no end to might

There is no end to wisdom

There is no end to light

There is no end to union

There is no end to youth

There is no end to priesthood

There is no end to truth.

If I could, I'd "hie" joyfully...

from the beach on a beautiful, sunny morning... this makes 2 in a row!!

GG

[Lightbearer]

I’ve included a poll, so you can choose one of my answers or you can post one of your own.

Besides being a wonderful song, it “is” Mormon Doctrine, that the name of the star closest to the throne of God is called (named) Kolob.

I have read many threads on this topic and some of Nibley’s writings on the topic, also articles here on FAIR.

Of this most “unimportant doctrine” to those outside our faith, it is the one that is the butt of many jokes and crude comments; WHY?

In the poll I selected: because it indicates that God is a corpreal being also I would like to have selected any old reason to ridicule and belittle the faith. But the real reason is because they like the jews could not comprehend the nature of God and when you reveal the pearls of the kingdom to swine they are very liable to trample them in the mud and turn and rend you... This may be of some help:

(John 10:33) "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

This is the unforgivable sin, which Satan's emmissaries rage over, Satan howls at that doctrine the loudest and he stirs up those in his power against it the most because this is the most important and defining doctrine of the kingdom. All hell rages against it and hell boils over because of it. Jesus was crucified because of this one doctrine and Joseph Smith was shot to death on account of it. Today they may try to feign that it was polygamy, but that was just an excuse for the real reason, in fact Jesus and Joseph were killed for the same "legal" excuse, for "treason"! Of course that reason is not so popular to the 21st century mind so they had to drag polygamy into it. But the truth was they raged against him because of what they preceived as blasphemy (just as the Jews did to the Master) they could not accept such a doctrine that God is actually a glorified and exalted man and if Jesus were here today they would try to kill Him just as they did His servant Joseph.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

In the poll I selected: because it indicates that God is a corpreal being also I would like to have selected any old reason to ridicule and belittle the faith. But the real reason is because they like the jews could not comprehend the nature of God and when you reveal the pearls of the kingdom to swine they are very liable to trample them in the mud and turn and rend you... This may be of some help:

This is the unforgivable sin, which Satan's emmissaries rage over, Satan howls at that doctrine the loudest and he stirs up those in his power against it the most because this is the most important and defining doctrine of the kingdom. All hell rages against it and hell boils over because of it. Jesus was crucified because of this one doctrine and Joseph Smith was shot to death on account of it. Today they may try to feign that it was polygamy, but that was just an excuse for the real reason, in fact Jesus and Joseph were killed for the same "legal" excuse, for "treason"! Of course that reason is not so popular to the 21st century mind so they had to drag polygamy into it. But the truth was they raged against him because of what they preceived as blasphemy (just as the Jews did to the Master) they could not accept such a doctrine that God is actually a glorified and exalted man and if Jesus were here today they would try to kill Him just as they did His servant Joseph.

Well stated.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

This is one of my favorites...

I find the words hopeful, beautiful... comforting...

There is no end to virtue

There is no end to might

There is no end to wisdom

There is no end to light

There is no end to union

There is no end to youth

There is no end to priesthood

There is no end to truth.

If I could, I'd "hie" joyfully...

from the beach on a beautiful, sunny morning... this makes 2 in a row!!

GG

Those are wonderful lines, I wish I had wrote them.