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Your View of the IRS


  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. Which most closely reflects your view on U.S. income tax?

    • I patriotically pay a full, honest, income tax
      22
    • I pay everything I owe out of fear I'd get caught
      6
    • I willingly pay, but fudge where I can (e.g. side income, deductions)
      3
    • Tax is gunpoint robbery by the IRS, so I defend my property by cheating as much as possible
      0


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In a bit over two weeks, income taxes are due. I know at least a few members of the restored church believe that taxes are robbery, "taken at the point of a gun by the IRS." In light of that view, how do you handle taxes? If the government is literally stealing your money by taxing you, is it ethically justifiable to lie and cheat in order to protect your own property?

Your votes are anonymous, so feel free to tell the truth without fear of the IRS hunting you down.

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Analytics:

I pay all taxes that I am legally required to do. I am a firm believer in paying taxes to support my community and my nation. That being said I don't always agree with the purposes those tax monies are put to, and regularly tell my elected representatives how I feel about it.

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I pay my taxes with joy and thanksgiving.

The way I see it, paying taxes is a privilege. It allows us to show our gratitude to and love for the country and its leaders. We need to pay taxes much more than the government needs us to do so, yet it greatly pleases them when we pay with a willing and happy heart. I also believe the spirit with which we pay taxes is, in fact, as important as the act of paying. I hope we can all understand that paying taxes is more than giving money; it is a demonstration of gratitude and humble obedience to the principles and laws of the country.

It's also my belief that there are intangable benefits from paying our taxes. These benefits include an ability to earn enough money to provide for our needs (as the government defends our freedoms), the ability to use money wisely, protection from costly catastrophes, and the joy of sharing and giving.

Edited by cinepro
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I think there was a talk that specifically mentions members who justify tax evasion. If we think taxes are wrong, we need to go through legal channels to fight it and obey the law of the land.

Here's one quote from Elder Oaks:

A related distortion is seen in the practice of those who select a few sentences from the teachings of a prophet and use them to support their political agenda or other personal purposes. In doing so, they typically ignore the contrary implications of other prophetic words, or even the clear example of the prophet
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I pay my taxes with joy and thanksgiving.

The way I see it, paying taxes is a privilege. It allows us to show our gratitude to and love for the country and its leaders. We need to pay taxes much more than the government needs us to do so, yet it greatly pleases them when we pay with a willing and happy heart. I also believe the spirit with which we pay taxes is, in fact, as important as the act of paying. I hope we can all understand that paying taxes is more than giving money; it is a demonstration of gratitude and humble obedience to the principles and laws of the country.

It's also my belief that there are intangable benefits from paying our taxes. These benefits include an ability to earn enough money to provide for our needs (as the government defends our freedoms), the ability to use money wisely, protection from costly catastrophes, and the joy of sharing and giving.

cinepro, you're a gem! That cracked me up.

And I agree with sometimesaint....I pay my taxes honorably and would never consider cheating on my taxes. If I have a problem with the manner in which my taxes are used, then I take that up with my elected officials.

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You left out a couple important options.

I pay the full tax I owe (and probably more, because no one, least of all me, can understand the tax code), but it's still gunpoint robbery because there is always the threat of the gun, even if it doesn't show up on my personal doorstep.

I pay their tax (it's not "my tax", because, if it were, the number would be zero) because they have more guns, bigger guns, and better guns than I do.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
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You left out a couple important options.

I pay the full tax I owe (and probably more, because no one, least of all me, can understand the tax code), but it's still gunpoint robbery because there is always the threat of the gun, eve if it doesn't show up on my personal doorstep.

I pay their tax (it's not "my tax", because, if it were, the number would be zero) because they have more guns, bigger guns, and better guns than I do.

Lehi

You crack me up, I love it!

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I have to say I agree with Lehi. Once I got a letter from the IRS telling me I owed more than I paid. I called and argued with them but ended up paying the amount they said I owed. They wanted me to sign a paper saying I agreed with their finding and instead I wrote a note on the paper saying I did not agree and I am paying only to get them off my back. A year later I got a refund on what I paid.

I have no problem paying taxes for defense of our nation and for infrastructure such as highways but I don't think this should be a tax on income. Any other services, including welfare, education etc should be at the local level and likewise not a tax on income.

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I pay income taxes becasue I have to. I pay a full honest tithe because I want to and I trust that the church is doing its best with my money.

I watched Aaron Russo's "America: Freedom to Fascism" I thought it was interesting and believe its true. The policy makers will spend what they want regardless of how many taxes they collect or how many bonds they sell. As a last resort they always turn to the Federal Reserve and print more money which is effectively a tax through inflation. The whole system is so unjust that its beyond belief. We are ruled by warmongering barbaric thieves.

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In a bit over two weeks, income taxes are due. I know at least a few members of the restored church believe that taxes are robbery, "taken at the point of a gun by the IRS." In light of that view, how do you handle taxes? If the government is literally stealing your money by taxing you, is it ethically justifiable to lie and cheat in order to protect your own property?

Your votes are anonymous, so feel free to tell the truth without fear of the IRS hunting you down.

We are told to give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to give unto God what is God's, to cheat on your taxes is just as sinful as it is to cheat on your spouse, or cheat your business partner of of his fair share. You owe taxes to the government you don't have to agree with the way those taxes are spent or collected, but as long as they are due you have an moral obligation to pay them honestly and fully. To knowingly, willingly, and unrepentantly cheat on your taxes, makes one unworthy to hold a temple recommend, IMO.

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I say that one should use the members of congress as a guide to follow when paying taxes. I'm sure one would never go wrong.

I know what you mean: Daniel D. Rostenkowski and Charles B. Rangel leap to mind. Upstanding men, both, I'm sure. Wrote the laws they ignored. As I said, no one, least of all me, understands the Internal Revenue Code. And, from what I have read and seen, it's by design.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
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I am 32 and have never ever heard a peep from the IRS, never had to pay them anything, they have never had to pay me anything. Totally and completely avoided them altogether. As far as I am concerned it is a great relationship!!!

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The 12th Article of Faith pretty much sums up how I feel about paying taxes. I feel it is a moral duty every bit as important as the Law of Tithing:

We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
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I'm in the "gladly pay my taxes group", as long as they're spent wisely and for things that are needed. Even though I work in the defense industry, there's way too much waste.

In fact, I wish they'd raise my property taxes where I live. In Colorado Springs, the residents vetoed a property tax increase to make up for a shortfall caused by the crashing economy. Property taxes for here are stupidly low, by the way. This is what we got for that bit of electoral brilliance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs,_Colorado#Current_issues

If people don't wise up soon, I'll definitely be looking to migrate further west.

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What if the government took 100% of what you earned? And what if they used the money they collected from you to build opulent palaces for themselves? And what if they used your money to torture puppies? Would you still be quoting the 12th article of faith?

Is it an absolute duty to pay taxes no matter how high or how corrupt the government? Or is there some point where we are morally justified in resisting tyranny?

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I'm in the "gladly pay my taxes group", as long as they're spent wisely and for things that are needed. Even though I work in the defense industry, there's way too much waste.

In fact, I wish they'd raise my property taxes where I live. In Colorado Springs, the residents vetoed a property tax increase to make up for a shortfall caused by the crashing economy. Property taxes for here are stupidly low, by the way. This is what we got for that bit of electoral brilliance.

http://en.wikipedia....#Current_issues

If people don't wise up soon, I'll definitely be looking to migrate further west.

I think the idea of asking the neighbourhood to take care of their own parks is brilliant. Wish this was encouraged more, that people could go out and add to their local parks as they desired...perhaps have a supervisor to make sure it was appropriate and to keep an eye on things, but overall let the neighbourhood own its surroundings, so to speak.

The rest of the cuts are unfortunate.

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What if the government took 100% of what you earned? And what if they used the money they collected from you to build opulent palaces for themselves? And what if they used your money to torture puppies? Would you still be quoting the 12th article of faith?

Is it an absolute duty to pay taxes no matter how high or how corrupt the government? Or is there some point where we are morally justified in resisting tyranny?

Obedience means obedient all the time, not just when it is popular or easy to do so. Christ paid his taxes, why should we make excuses to not pay our own taxes?

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If there is a tax loophole, use it. That way, you'll be keeping the salvational requirement for the wise use of money. Luke 16:9-11

But it isn't a wise use if the money is gained from stealing, and lying about your income to the government to avoid taxes is stealing. It isn't your money anyway it is the US Treasury's money, so why lie about how much you made in order to keep a few extra dollars?

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I am 32 and have never ever heard a peep from the IRS, never had to pay them anything, they have never had to pay me anything.

This is, unfortunately, untrue. If you have income, and I assume you do at age 32, you pay them, it just comes out of your check before you see it.

That you do not pay any more is a good thing: you're not lending the government anything at 0% interest. Actually, I advise my clients to do just this, or, if possible, to underpay just slightly, so they have to write a small check at the end of the year (on April 15th). That's a tough calculation, but it is worth it.

Totally and completely avoided them altogether. As far as I am concerned it is a great relationship!

Yes, if you can keep them further than arm's length, it's great. But that usually means you're overpaying, and that's not great.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
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I have no problem paying taxes for defense of our nation and for infrastructure such as highways but I don't think this should be a tax on income. Any other services, including welfare, education etc should be at the local level and likewise not a tax on income.
Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands.

This man ought to have been elevated to the Supreme Court, and not just for his correct views on the issue of taxation

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This is, unfortunately, untrue. If you have income, and I assume you do at age 32, you pay them, it just comes out of your check before you see it.

That you do not pay any more is a good thing: you're not lending the government anything at 0% interest. Actually, I advise my clients to do just this, or, if possible, to underpay just slightly, so they have to write a small check at the end of the year (on April 15th). That's a tough calculation, but it is worth it.

Yes, if you can keep them further than arm's length, it's great. But that usually means you're overpaying, and that's not great.

Lehi

it was meant as a joke! I am in fact Canadian!! hahaha! So any and all American agencies and policies I don't deal with. I deal with the Taxation people here although I don't know what they are called!

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