Your View of the IRS

[ERayR]

ERayR:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/12/news/economy/corporate_taxes/

You evidently did not read what I wrote in the above post. Corporations do not pay taxes. Even when they write checks to the IRS it is passed on to the consumer (you and me) as an expense of doing business in the form of higher prices. Do you really want to pay more for the goods and services you purchase? Again, corporations do not pay taxes, you and I pay the taxes and I am not in favor of paying more taxes in the form of higher prices. It is an insidious lie that corporate taxes don't affect you. Any tax on a corporation is an additional tax on you and me.

There I have said it in several ways. Please reread it until you understand that simple economic principle.

[thesometimesaint]

ERayR:

Re-read until you understand "taxes are the dues we pay for living in a civilized society". "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Wendell_Holmes,_Jr.

[ERayR]

ERayR:

Re-read until you understand "taxes are the dues we pay for living in a civilized society". "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Wendell_Holmes,_Jr.

To the tune of over 50%of our income? And what does that have to do with corporations paying taxes?

Again understand that corporations do not pay taxes, people pay taxes.

Edited April 5, 2011 by ERayR

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

This filthy conservative pays an honest tax and would never think of cheating in any capacity. Other than that I agree with what others that beleive similar to me have said.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[thesometimesaint]

ERayR:

Incorrect. The top tax rate for corporations in the US is 35% with an effective tax rate of far less.

[ERayR]

ERayR:

Incorrect. The top tax rate for corporations in the US is 35% with an effective tax rate of far less.

You keep dancing around spewing imaterial information. I have already told you it doesn't matter what the corprate tax rate is, corporations DO NOT PAY TAX. It is passed on as a cost of doing business which results in higher prices for goods and services which you and I pay. You and I pay the taxes NOT corporations.

You and I pay over 50% of our earnings in taxes. Federal Income taxes 15% to 35%. State income taxes 6% to 10%. Gasoline taxes include both state and federal tax 18.4 cents per gallon and state tax of 40 to 60 cents per Gallon plus various excise taxes tacked on from well head to refinery. Excise tax levied on a great number of foriegn imports. Sales tax from a low of 2.5% in Colorado to 8.25% in California. This is just the short list it goes on and on.

Just to remind you I have already told you it doesn't mater what the corprate tax rate is, corporations DO NOT PAY TAX. It is passed on as a cost of doing business which results in higher prices for goods and services which you and I pay. You and I pay the taxes NOT corporations.

Edited April 5, 2011 by ERayR

[One Clear Voice]

In a bit over two weeks, income taxes are due. I know at least a few members of the restored church believe that taxes are robbery, "taken at the point of a gun by the IRS." In light of that view, how do you handle taxes? If the government is literally stealing your money by taxing you, is it ethically justifiable to lie and cheat in order to protect your own property?

Your votes are anonymous, so feel free to tell the truth without fear of the IRS hunting you down.

I learned years and years ago and advise to this day. Start with a reputable Accounting firm. After about six years the IRS sees this and rarely audits anyone. It's the people that run around to different places year after year or use Turbo Tax one year and Joe's Tax service the next that get hit!

[ERayR]

I learned years and years ago and advise to this day. Start with a reputable Accounting firm. After about six years the IRS sees this and rarely audits anyone. It's the people that run around to different places year after year or use Turbo Tax one year and Joe's Tax service the next that get hit!

Starting with a reputable accounting firm is a good idea. They keep up on the latest tax law changes. Changing preparers has little or nothing to do with it. However, TurboTax preparers and Uncle Joe or Aunt Sarah or the neighbor prepared tax return is audited because the preparer is ignorant of tax law and make errors on the tax return.

In reality the IRS picks tax returns for audit according to a check list of red flags, some of which change year to year depending on what taxpayer segment they arefocusing on for the current year. The best strategy to avoid audit is to report your income and do not overstate expenses. If you are honest in your reporting you never have to worry, even if you are audited.

Oh, and keep all your receipts and other tax papers for at least three years.

[Jeff K.]

Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society. Oliver Wendell Holmes, carved above the entrance to the IRS offices.

Bet it makes them feel pretty good (and I note the word just isn't in there, but civilized is,,,,, hmmmm)

By the way, the US now has the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. Germany, and others have lowered theirs.

By the way, while the IRS is very very powerful, they will also cooperate if they see a mistake is made and feel it to be an honest one. So says someone who whose company was audited by the IRS when it went public a few years back.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Jeff K.

[thesometimesaint]

Jeff K.:

Now lets talk about the effective corporate tax rate.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-03-28/biggest-corporate-tax-cheats-from-general-electric-to-google-to-news-corp/#

[Jeff K.]

Immelt is a close advisor to Obama, funny how the top tax evaders are those that work closest with the present administration and the person that can direct the IRS, but of course that may be mere coincidence. That aside, the point is unconvincing because the tax structure is such that a great deal of money is wasted in avoiding tax payments and usually sluiced to less efficient directions, making products more expensive. In essence creating a tax on efficiency and reducing competitiveness. All to avoid taxes, not to produce goods and services. Friedman spoke of that in his nobel prize lecture.

[ERayR]

Jeff K.:

Now lets talk about the effective corporate tax rate.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-03-28/biggest-corporate-tax-cheats-from-general-electric-to-google-to-news-corp/#

Sigh! and repeat corporations do not pay tax. See above.

[Jeff K.]

Mine did, and most do, especially the smaller corporations.

Tax avoidance is itself a tax on the people.

[thesometimesaint]

Jeff K.:

Good for you, and I really mean that.

I get really tired of paying my taxes, while some corporation uses my infrastructure, and pays nothing.

[ERayR]

Mine did, and most do, especially the smaller corporations.

Tax avoidance is itself a tax on the people.

Just one question. Did you or did you not figure the taxes you paid into the cost of the product or service you produced?

[Jeff K.]

Yes, that is why it is a tax on the people. If I have to pay more accountants to understand the tax code, that indirect cost goes to product development, or overhead. If I know a less efficient product will allow me to avoid taxes, even though the superior product itself is better for all concerned, then I will charge more for the efficient product (meaning you pay more because I will be paying more) or avoid it entirely and use the less efficient product (meaning that the inefficiency gets passed on to the the consumer in overall costs indirectly). In both the government has decided which product I used and in effect told me what to sell and even how to sell it.

The lower the overall tax the greater the possibility that I will use those products which are most efficient for me to sell.

[ERayR]

Yes, that is why it is a tax on the people. If I have to pay more accountants to understand the tax code, that indirect cost goes to product development, or overhead. If I know a less efficient product will allow me to avoid taxes, even though the superior product itself is better for all concerned, then I will charge more for the efficient product (meaning you pay more because I will be paying more) or avoid it entirely and use the less efficient product (meaning that the inefficiency gets passed on to the the consumer in overall costs indirectly). In both the government has decided which product I used and in effect told me what to sell and even how to sell it.

The lower the overall tax the greater the possibility that I will use those products which are most efficient for me to sell.

That makes my point. It does not matter that your company wrote the check to the IRS the cost was passed on to the consumer. Had there been no corporate taxes the product would have cost less. The consumer paid the tax. your corporation did not pay it they only collected it for the IRS. Taxes on corporations are only a stealth tax on the consumers of that corporations consumers.

Edited April 11, 2011 by ERayR

[Jeff K.]

I agree on that point. It always comes down to the consumer paying. However, the more byzantine the tax system the more is spent (or passed on to consumers) on the avoidance mechanism. Simpler is generally cheaper and better.

[ERayR]

I agree on that point. It always comes down to the consumer paying. However, the more byzantine the tax system the more is spent (or passed on to consumers) on the avoidance mechanism. Simpler is generally cheaper and better.

It irks me to listen(read) those who complain about corporations paying their fair share and wanting the loopholes closed. They don't have a clue about how it works. Any tax levied on a corporation is a tax increase on the consumer. Corporations do not pay taxes. If GE didn't pay any income tax that means that GE products cost less than is they had. Anybody calling for an increase in corporate taxes is calling for an increase in the cost of living or in other words an increase in the stealth taxes.

[Deborah]

Any tax levied on a corporation is a tax increase on the consumer.

The thing is this should be common sense. If businesses can only stay open if they are making a profit then it's logical that as their costs go up so do the costs to the consumer. As we've seen gas prices go up, we've also seen the price of groceries go up. Do people really not understand the connection between what it costs to produce and what the final price will be?

[frankenstein]

The thing is this should be common sense. If businesses can only stay open if they are making a profit then it's logical that as their costs go up so do the costs to the consumer. As we've seen gas prices go up, we've also seen the price of groceries go up. Do people really not understand the connection between what it costs to produce and what the final price will be?

except when production is artificially controlled the whole theory flies out the window. OPEC wants prices at a certain level, therefore they manipulate the price. DeBeers wants prices at a certain therefore DeBeers engages in practices which are otherwise illegal. And then we have the airlines (which we have discussed before) there is no more service provide and no more cost of production, yet prices increase 3 fold.

And based on the principle of "who moved the cheese", gobble up as much and as fast as you can, while still looking for the next opportunity of exploitation.

I dare say corporations are almost also making a profit, when a corpration claims a "loss" it is only saying "we didn't make our projected goals" that does not mean the corp. lost money, it just didn't earn what it wanted. And yes, a corp. needs a profit, but again, a corp is almost always making a profit but a corp. concerned more concerned about profit than anything, so a corp who is making a profit seeks to increase the profit.

In the end the consumer is just chump.

[Jeff K.]

OPEC has consistently failed to control production. The present rise of prices in fact has little to do with OPEC and a great deal to do with presumed risk.

Debeers on the other hand has done a very good job in artificially controlling the price of diamonds. When the Soviet Union collapsed they immediately purchased diamonds minds in the former Soviet Union to continue to control diamond production. They are very good and disciplined at what they do.

Artificial control is a mixed bag at best.

I dare say corporations are almost also making a profit, when a corpration claims a "loss" it is only saying "we didn't make our projected goals" that does not mean the corp. lost money, it just didn't earn what it wanted. And yes, a corp. needs a profit, but again, a corp is almost always making a profit but a corp. concerned more concerned about profit than anything, so a corp who is making a profit seeks to increase the profit.

I dare say they don't. There is no "loss" if the goal is not met. The loss exists when they run into the negative. The only way they can show a loss while still making a profit is when they convince the auditing firm to lie for them. Arthur Anderson the biggest and most prestigious accounting firm in the world is an excellent case and point.

[ERayR]

The thing is this should be common sense. If businesses can only stay open if they are making a profit then it's logical that as their costs go up so do the costs to the consumer. As we've seen gas prices go up, we've also seen the price of groceries go up. Do people really not understand the connection between what it costs to produce and what the final price will be?

I don't understand why the connection isn't evident but it must not be because The Sometimesaint and a myriad of other liberals keep shouting to increase the taxes on corporations. It's like shooting yourself in the foot then wondering why your foot hurts. If a corporation doesn't make a profit they go out of business ergo they pass the costs on as increased prices. At some point the consumer can't or won't continue to pay the increased prices then the company goes out of business anyway. Then we import from countries who produce the goods with slave labor and our own manufacturing base is destroyed. We are almost there folks, almost. If it tips over the edge it is not going to be pleasant and you better have your food storage.