Your View of the IRS

[Deborah]

That you do not pay any more is a good thing: you're not lending the government anything at 0% interest. Actually, I advise my clients to do just this, or, if possible, to underpay just slightly, so they have to write a small check at the end of the year (on April 15^th). That's a tough calculation, but it is worth it.

This is how I do it. I'd rather write a check for a couple of hundred dollars at the end of the year than have the government get hold of more money to waste. I've been trying to get my kids to do the same thing rather than getting that big refund. They struggle all year and could be using that money. Besides they could just set aside the money in a separate savings account and get interest themselves.

I remember a time in Calif when tax refunds were paid in IOU's. Can you imagine if the government collapses and you've not been able to enjoy that money and won't ever get it back?

[BCSpace]

If there is a tax loophole, use it. That way, you'll be keeping the salvational requirement for the wise use of money. Luke 16:9-11

But it isn't a wise use if the money is gained from stealing, and lying about your income to the government to avoid taxes is stealing. It isn't your money anyway it is the US Treasury's money, so why lie about how much you made in order to keep a few extra dollars?

I didn't say anything about lying, stealing, or cheating. If a loophole exists, just use it.

[semlogo]

You work for the IRS don't you?

[LeSellers]

it was meant as a joke! I am in fact Canadian!! hahaha! So any and all American agencies and policies I don't deal with. I deal with the Taxation people here although I don't know what they are called!

You got me. I really do try not to be a topocentric USmerican, but sometimes, it does grab me by the throat. I married a Canadian, so I ought to be better.

It's called the Canada Revenue Agency.

Lehi

[LeSellers]

This is how I do it. I'd rather write a check for a couple of hundred dollars at the end of the year than have the government get hold of more money to waste. I've been trying to get my kids to do the same thing rather than getting that big refund. They struggle all year and could be using that money. Besides they could just set aside the money in a separate savings account and get interest themselves.

I remember a time in Calif when tax refunds were paid in IOU's. Can you imagine if the government collapses and you've not been able to enjoy that money and won't ever get it back?

Great for you and your children. I assume, however, that you have not been successful in influencing them, which is sad.

The state of California "escheated" a savings account I had there. It happened nine years ago, I still have not received the money.

Lehi

[Duncan]

You got me. I really do try not to be a topocentric USmerican, but sometimes, it does grab me by the throat. I married a Canadian, so I ought to be better.

It's called the Canada Revenue Agency.

Lehi

Awesome! where is your wife from if you don't mind me asking?

[LeSellers]

Awesome! where is your wife from if you don't mind me asking?

Born in Calgary, raised in Edmonton; many relatives in Cardston.

Lehi

[Duncan]

Born in Calgary, raised in Edmonton; many relatives in Cardston.

Lehi

awesome! I am not from Alberta but know many people there and from there

[JarMan]

Obedience means obedient all the time, not just when it is popular or easy to do so. Christ paid his taxes, why should we make excuses to not pay our own taxes?

Let me get this straight. . . We have a moral obligation to obey even wicked and tyrannical governments? Have you read the Book of Mormon lately? Do you know anything about the history of how this county was formed?

Edited April 2, 2011 by JarMan

[Kenngo1969]

I say that one should use the members of congress as a guide to follow when paying taxes. I'm sure one would never go wrong.

I know he's not (and was not) a Congressman, but I think we ought to throw in former New York Fed Chairman Timmy Geithner.

[Kenngo1969]

I didn't say anything about lying, stealing, or cheating. If a loophole exists, just use it.

If the government were to close most of the loopholes, it could drastically lower rates and would still end up getting more revenue.

[dirtius maximus]

Let me get this straight. . . We have a moral obligation to obey even wicked and tyrannical governments? Have you read the Book of Mormon lately? Do you know anything about the history of how this county was formed?

.

The Articles of Faith would say so.

The Book of Mormon would also indicate such.

From what I recall the only example of defiance to a wicked and tyrannical government in the Bible would be in the Old Testament. Otherwise as indicated Christ said "Render unto to Ceasar".

Can you put forth an explanation backed by Scripture, that there is an exception to the being subject to kings...etc.

As for the founding of the United States, not relevant, as not every LDS is also a US Citizen, more importantly, the Gospel had not been restored at the time, thus the founders of the United States were not bound to what LDS are bound; i.e. the Articles of Faith

[LeSellers]

If the government were to close most of the loopholes, it could drastically lower rates and would still end up getting more revenue.

And would further reduce the dynamic qualities of the economy. Money is a coward and will flee unless and until there is a reasonable chance of returning a premium on its work.

Lehi

[LeSellers]

The Book of Mormon would also indicate such.

Captain Moroni was ready to fight against what he thought was a tyrannical government.

Lehi

[ERayR]

In a bit over two weeks, income taxes are due. I know at least a few members of the restored church believe that taxes are robbery, "taken at the point of a gun by the IRS." In light of that view, how do you handle taxes? If the government is literally stealing your money by taxing you, is it ethically justifiable to lie and cheat in order to protect your own property?

Your votes are anonymous, so feel free to tell the truth without fear of the IRS hunting you down.

Are you advocating breaking the law? I am a firm believer of not paying any more than you are required to. That's why I recommend a good tax accountant. You can get hold of me at .

[ERayR]

But it isn't a wise use if the money is gained from stealing, and lying about your income to the government to avoid taxes is stealing. It isn't your money anyway it is the US Treasury's money, so why lie about how much you made in order to keep a few extra dollars?

It is not lying about your income to use the so called loopholes. It is prudent to follow tax law.

Where do you get the idea the money belongs to the US Treasury? It is mine I earned it.

Edited April 4, 2011 by ERayR

[ERayR]

If the government were to close most of the loopholes, it could drastically lower rates and would still end up getting more revenue.

What loopholes?

[thesometimesaint]

A. The ones that allow US based companies to claim they are a small post office box in the Cayman Islands to avoid taxes.

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8 ) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

Edited April 4, 2011 by thesometimesaint

[kev_stevens67]

I always pay a full and honest income tax.

[blackstrap]

If a company gets a tax rebate,does that not mean that it paid too much tax? I know I can't get a rebate unless I actually pay some tax.

[ERayR]

A. The ones that allow US based companies to claim they are a small post office box in the Cayman Islands to avoid taxes.

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8 ) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

You forgot the one that allows a worker with five children making $30,000 a year to get an $8,000 tax refund without paying a dime of taxes. Or the one that gives every filer with any earned income a $400 refundable credit for him and his wife.

I see, to you it is only a loophole if you don't qualify to use it Otherwise it is just taking what is yours.

The size of the refund checks mean nothing. What is significant is how much they paid in taxes after receiving the refund.

Edited April 4, 2011 by ERayR

[Mudcat]

I went with the honest taxpayer option.

There is one caveat, I don't report income from playing in my hobby bands.

I am getting the short end of the stick for not doing so. Considering my expenses for new guitars and band gear and such exceed any revenue. But it just seems like something extra to keep up with so I don't.

[thesometimesaint]

ERayR:

Mere peanuts.

Try buying a house for 7 for less than $90,000 USD. That is how much a convention mortgage will let you barrow. The deduction of home mortgage interest only applies till you pay off the mortgage, ask me about it. I know that very well from first hand experience.

Or we can talk about that "HUGE" deduction you can claim if you have those 5 children. I'm positive there are couples just popping them out just for the tax deduction.

[ERayR]

ERayR:

Mere peanuts.

Try buying a house for 7 for less than $90,000 USD. That is how much a convention mortgage will let you barrow. The deduction of home mortgage interest only applies till you pay off the mortgage, ask me about it. I know that very well from first hand experience.

Or we can talk about that "HUGE" deduction you can claim if you have those 5 children. I'm positive there are couples just popping them out just for the tax deduction.

Did you want a mortgage interest deduction for interest you are no longer paying? I know very well from first hand experience too, I work with it daily.

FYI the top 5% of taxpayers pay over 90% of the actual tax dollars. Also FYI corporations do not pay taxes they pass them on to consumers as a cost of doing business. When the oil company's pay tax your gas price goes up. You and I pay the taxes. Whatever extra you want the corporations to pay be prepared to pay your share in the form of higher prices.

[thesometimesaint]

ERayR:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/12/news/economy/corporate_taxes/