Japan Earthquake and Tsunami Outcome Orchestrated by The Lord

[44Foxtrot]

http://www.ldschurch.jp/index.php/component/content/article/126-notices/744-notice-from-the-area-presidency

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Notice from the Area Presidency

Dear Brothers and Sisters of Japan,

We are pleased to inform you that we have now confirmed that all of the missionaries in Japan have been found and are safe. The last two missionaries in Sendai were located on Saturday evening. We sincerely appreciate the efforts of Pres. Tateoka who has worked continuously since the earthquake to account for his missionaries. We also thank the many members who have helped in this effort. We had a large number of church employees who stayed in the Area office building overnight and most of Saturday to help in this time of emergency and we greatly appreciate their service. We will now make every effort to locate and evaluate the condition of all of our members in Japan. Please inform your priesthood leaders of any information you have on the condition of our members. Brother Darwin Halvorson, our area welfare manager, coordinated much of the effort today and will continue to evaluate and arrange for welfare needs throughout the area.

The outcome today really is a miraculous result orchestrated by the Lord. We have been uplifted to have observed all that has taken place leading to this result. We give our thanks to Heavenly Father for his mercy and blessings this day and pray that we now find our members throughout Japan alive and well.

Gary E. Stevenson

Yoon Hwan Choi

Koichi Aoyagi

(Emphasis is mine.)

It is likely that thousands, or even tens of thousands, of Japanese were killed in this natural disaster. Was the outcome really a miracle orchestrated by the Lord?

Do Mormon leaders think that faithful Japanese who lost friends or family in this disaster agree with this unimaginable hubris, or take comfort in the claim that the Lord orchestrated the outcome of the disaster?

Why should the outcome be proclaimed a miracle (even for Mormons) before the fates of all the Japanese LDS faithful are known?

Why would God care more about missionaries than other faithful Mormons, and more about Mormons than non-Mormons?

Do Mormons think at all before they write this stuff and post it on the internet?

I see it as sympomatic that there will be faithful Mormons who read the above statement from the area presidency and see no problem with it at all.

[Jeff K.]

Did atheist organizations rush to to help? Or did religious and religiously supported organizations make their way? It is the spirit of the Lord that provides for the outpouring of goodness and sacrifice, for which no rationalization of self interest would allow. Sometimes people do the right things because they love the Lord and know that their fellowman is also their brother and sister.

Does foxy think at all before he writes that stuff?

[44Foxtrot]

Did atheist organizations rush to to help? Or did religious and religiously supported organizations make their way? It is the spirit of the Lord that provides for the outpouring of goodness and sacrifice, for which no rationalization of self interest would allow. Sometimes people do the right things because they love the Lord and know that their fellowman is also their brother and sister.

Does foxy think at all before he writes that stuff?

Perhaps you are unaware that the bulk of the relief work in the affected area is being carried out by the Japanese military, a well trained and well equipped secular organization.

[Jeff K.]

Are you stating that the Japanese as a people are atheists or are you stating that a religious people cannot run and control an organization that does not mention religion, but whose tenets follow the religious proclivities of its people?

Do you think before you write this stuff?

[Jeff K.]

Japan Earthquake Relief: World gears up for post-Tsunami task; NGOs begin sending volunteers, aid teams

Many world relief organizations and funds have taken up relief efforts to help those in Japan affected by the worst natural and nuclear disaster.

Here is a list of humanitarian missions and funds launched so far:

[Jeff K.]

Let me know what the IEHU is doing

[44Foxtrot]

Are you stating that the Japanese as a people are atheists or are you stating that a religious people cannot run and control an organization that does not mention religion, but whose tenets follow the religious proclivities of its people?

Do you think before you write this stuff?

The subject of the OP is not the secular nature of the Japanese Self Defense Force; it is the rank insensitivity and hubris on display in the Mormon claim that God orchestrated the outcome of the events related to the 8.9 earthquake for the benefit of Mormon missionaries.

[thesometimesaint]

44Foxtrot:

Would you have been happy if more LDS had lost their lives?

[mtomm]

Foxtrot, have you been a missionary or been the parent of one?

[Ron Beron]

The subject of the OP is not the secular nature of the Japanese Self Defense Force; it is the rank insensitivity and hubris on display in the Mormon claim that God orchestrated the outcome of the events related to the 8.9 earthquake for the benefit of Mormon missionaries.

What it says to me is that the Lord helped in the orchestration of the survival of the missionaries. I suggest that you are using hyperbole and prejudice in your condemnation of the letter. I saw nothing to suggest that the Japanese people "deserved" what they got. I served in the area affected by the earthquake/tsunami and I know that I would have been concerned for the lives of my fellow missionaries as well as the parents of those serving.

[Jaybear]

The subject of the OP is not the secular nature of the Japanese Self Defense Force; it is the rank insensitivity and hubris on display in the Mormon claim that God orchestrated the outcome of the events related to the 8.9 earthquake for the benefit of Mormon missionaries.

I believe you have misread the statement. As I read it, the miracle is that all of the Mormon missionaries are safe and accounted for.

Thus he is not saying that God caused the earthquake, but that God intervened to make sure the Mormons were spared from harm.

[TAO]

Foxtrot... do you understand the point of trials? They are to prepare us.

Yes, the Lord had a hand in the earthquake. This doesn't make the people in Japan guilty of anything. It just was their trial to go through - and it will help make them strong.

We all need to be willing to go through what the Lord sends our way, no matter how hard it is. We have trials that aren't necessarily fair from our short view point - but if they make us better people, who are we to be complaining - we should be rejoicing in the good things that come of it. Not all will be bad, but some good will be born indeed, I hope.

Now speaking of the letter... I think you misread it's intentions. It is thanking the Lord for allowing all the missionaries to be found, so that way comfort could be sent home to their families. I do thank the Lord for that, and now it is time for us to proceed to helping the Japanese people recover from this difficult disaster and trial. Let us not worry so much about small things, and focus on what really matters, that is helping people. The Lord will do what the Lord will do, but we need to do as we are commanded.

EDIT: Jaybear beat me to it =).

[bluebell]

(Emphasis is mine.)

It is likely that thousands, or even tens of thousands, of Japanese were killed in this natural disaster. Was the outcome really a miracle orchestrated by the Lord?

Do Mormon leaders think that faithful Japanese who lost friends or family in this disaster agree with this unimaginable hubris, or take comfort in the claim that the Lord orchestrated the outcome of the disaster?

I hope they do. If it was me, I would. When tragedy has stricken my family and i have lost loved ones, i have taken much comfort in knowing that everything is in the hands of the Lord.

Why should the outcome be proclaimed a miracle (even for Mormons) before the fates of all the Japanese LDS faithful are known?

Because miracles don't only occurre when everyone is spared. Not having been there personally though, I'm fine with letting those that were describe the events for themselves.

Why would God care more about missionaries than other faithful Mormons, and more about Mormons than non-Mormons?

I don't think He would or does. Missionaries die all the time. Mormons die all the time. This question is very short-sighted.

Do Mormons think at all before they write this stuff and post it on the internet?

I would say 'yes' but i obviously have no way of knowing for sure.

I see it as sympomatic that there will be faithful Mormons who read the above statement from the area presidency and see no problem with it at all.

I think it's symptomatic that you can't seem to read the above statement from any other perspective but your own.

[Palerider]

(Emphasis is mine.)

It is likely that thousands, or even tens of thousands, of Japanese were killed in this natural disaster. Was the outcome really a miracle orchestrated by the Lord?

Do Mormon leaders think that faithful Japanese who lost friends or family in this disaster agree with this unimaginable hubris, or take comfort in the claim that the Lord orchestrated the outcome of the disaster?

Why should the outcome be proclaimed a miracle (even for Mormons) before the fates of all the Japanese LDS faithful are known?

Why would God care more about missionaries than other faithful Mormons, and more about Mormons than non-Mormons?

Do Mormons think at all before they write this stuff and post it on the internet?

I see it as sympomatic that there will be faithful Mormons who read the above statement from the area presidency and see no problem with it at all.

I think it better for the individual not to attribute God's will as if "knowing" why some were spared and some were not. Better to be simply thankful to God for those who are spared and commend to God those who are not.

[44Foxtrot]

44Foxtrot:

Would you have been happy if more LDS had lost their lives?

Of course not.

I do believe it is wholly inappropriate for Mormons to be claiming a miracle orchestrated by God especially for their missionaries when they know that thousands lost their lives.

[CV75]

unimaginable hubris

How does one objectively see things that are not there?

[44Foxtrot]

Foxtrot, have you been a missionary or been the parent of one?

All three of my sons served honorable missions, two of them overseas. I would never, ever, claim (or even presume) that God would take care or my sons (or had taken care of my sons) while ignoring the plight of others in the same situation.

Would you?

Here is what appeared on the LDS Website:

The outcome today really is a miraculous result orchestrated by the Lord. We have been uplifted to have observed all that has taken place leading to this result.

I find this to be an appaling demonstration of Mormon arrogance and claimed priviledge.

[Pahoran]

(Emphasis is mine.)

It is likely that thousands, or even tens of thousands, of Japanese were killed in this natural disaster. Was the outcome really a miracle orchestrated by the Lord?

As Jaybear (to my astonishment) pointed out: the letter is not saying that the death and destruction were "orchestrated by the Lord." It is saying that the Lord was protecting the missionaries.

Do Mormon leaders think that faithful Japanese who lost friends or family in this disaster agree with this unimaginable hubris, or take comfort in the claim that the Lord orchestrated the outcome of the disaster?

I looked up "unimaginable hubris" in the dictionary. It said "See 44Foxtrot" and cross-referenced "DrW."

"Unimaginable hubris" is when someone who rejects the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ arrogates to himself the role of arbitrating who exemplifies them best. Having so arrogated, the selection of a mentally deranged mother murdering her children shows unimaginable malice.

Claiming to have personally been aware of the case when it happened, but referring to the mother by a pseudonym that was invented for her more than a decade later in a published book -- showing where you really heard of it -- shows unimaginable mendacity.

You, of all people, have absolutely nothing to say about "hubris."

Why should the outcome be proclaimed a miracle (even for Mormons) before the fates of all the Japanese LDS faithful are known?

Why would God care more about missionaries than other faithful Mormons, and more about Mormons than non-Mormons?

Do Mormons think at all before they write this stuff and post it on the internet?

Think about what? The fact that there are hyper-vigilant, hyper-critical anti-Mormons who will stretch any point to absurd lengths to try to make the Church look bad?

Do anti-Mormons think at all before they write your kind of "stuff" and post it on the internet?

I see it as sympomatic that there will be faithful Mormons who read the above statement from the area presidency and see no problem with it at all.

I see it as symptomatic that there will be anti-Mormons who read your hateful ranting and see no problem with it at all.

Regards,

Pahoran

[USU78]

Japan Earthquake Relief: World gears up for post-Tsunami task; NGOs begin sending volunteers, aid teams

Many world relief organizations and funds have taken up relief efforts to help those in Japan affected by the worst natural and nuclear disaster.

Here is a list of humanitarian missions and funds launched so far:

[bluebell]

I find this to be an appaling demonstration of Mormon arrogance and claimed priviledge.

Three questions:

1-Do you believe that the LDS church thinks no LDS members have been killed or have had loved ones killed in Japan?

2-IF God exists and is active in the lives of His children, wouldn't it illogical to believe that God would NOT intervene to protect the lives of certain individuals who still had work to do on the earth in His service?

3-Did the church say or imply that God's hand was not invovled in saving any of the non-LDS (and non-Christian) people who lived? Did the church ANYWHERE suggest that the only miracles which happened invovled only LDS members?

Your indignation is acknowledged, but doesn't seem reasonable.

[Stargazer]

44Foxtrot, sometimes I really dispair for you. You seem to have lost all sensitivity for the feelings of others in your apparent quest to find fault with the church you have left. You seem to have forgotten that the bulk of the young men and young women sent out as missionaries by the Church are being watched and waited for by parents located all over the world, and are a special care of the church, both institutionally at the world level, and locally, at the branch and ward level. When we here in the Olympia, Washington area hold our annual emergency preparedness exercise, we look out especially for the welfare of those among us who serve as full-time missionaries, not necessarily above the welfare of our local members, but as a class, because of their special place by virtue of their calling. In short, we look out for the Lord's Anointed, in part because of their calling, but also partly because we have an appreciation of their parents' concern for them stemming from what would be our concern in a similar place.

Since we're all in this together, the members in Japan will naturally be concerned for the FT missionaries among them, whether their nations of origin be the US or otherwise.

It is likely that thousands, or even tens of thousands, of Japanese were killed in this natural disaster. Was the outcome really a miracle orchestrated by the Lord?

Do Mormon leaders think that faithful Japanese who lost friends or family in this disaster agree with this unimaginable hubris, or take comfort in the claim that the Lord orchestrated the outcome of the disaster?

The Lord is being cited in the outcome of the disaster in respect of the fact that no full-time missionaries lost their lives. Now, as to whether or not the earthquake was caused by God, well, you're going to have to take potluck on that one. Some believers think exact that, others think that the world got spun up by God in the beginning and was then events were allowed to take their natural courses, with God perhaps intervening in some of the details along the way to accomplish His objectives. Of course, someone who doesn't believe there is a God, has nothing to complain about. Or shouldn't, anyway.

Why should the outcome be proclaimed a miracle (even for Mormons) before the fates of all the Japanese LDS faithful are known?

See my introductory comments above. We don't know yet if any Japanese LDS lost their lives -- though given that LDS are a tiny minority, it's certainly going to be possible, statistically if for no other reason.

Why would God care more about missionaries than other faithful Mormons, and more about Mormons than non-Mormons?

According to you, He doesn't exist, and the universe is the result of random fluctuations in space-time. So what, then, is your concern over it supposed to signify? That you can leave the Church, but can't leave it alone?

Do Mormons think at all before they write this stuff and post it on the internet?

Do you? Tragically, I think you do. The word "malice" comes to mind.

I see it as sympomatic that there will be faithful Mormons who read the above statement from the area presidency and see no problem with it at all.

"Symptomatic" of what, exactly? Of caring for our own? You're right, that's simply Dreadful.

------------

edited to fix a screwup

[ed2276]

(Emphasis is mine.)

It is likely that thousands, or even tens of thousands, of Japanese were killed in this natural disaster. Was the outcome really a miracle orchestrated by the Lord?

Do Mormon leaders think that faithful Japanese who lost friends or family in this disaster agree with this unimaginable hubris, or take comfort in the claim that the Lord orchestrated the outcome of the disaster?

Why should the outcome be proclaimed a miracle (even for Mormons) before the fates of all the Japanese LDS faithful are known?

Why would God care more about missionaries than other faithful Mormons, and more about Mormons than non-Mormons?

Do Mormons think at all before they write this stuff and post it on the internet?

I see it as sympomatic that there will be faithful Mormons who read the above statement from the area presidency and see no problem with it at all.

Maybe a bit of hyperbole, who knows? It well could be that in the efforts to find the missionaries God orchestrated their preservation and their location.

But, even if it was just hyperbole, so what? He wasn't saying anything demeaning or devaluing about the other members. The subject was the missionaries. There may well be other miracles God orchestrated to protect and rescue other faithful member...other unfaithful members...and nonmembers, alike.

I think you are being way too hypersensitive when you take such offense over the Area Presidency reporting good news about finding the missionaries, miraculous orchestration or not.

[CA Steve]

Foxtrot... do you understand the point of trials? They are to prepare us.

Yes, the Lord had a hand in the earthquake. This doesn't make the people in Japan guilty of anything. It just was their trial to go through - and it will help make them strong.

We all need to be willing to go through what the Lord sends our way, no matter how hard it is. We have trials that aren't necessarily fair from our short view point - but if they make us better people, who are we to be complaining - we should be rejoicing in the good things that come of it. Not all will be bad, but some good will be born indeed, I hope.

I am not sure if we agree or disagree here but I prefer to believe in a God that has done everything he can to minimize the suffering from an event such as this. I do not view this as some sort of indiscriminate trial given to Japanese people by God, rather as an event beyond his control in which he has acted to the fullest extent of his capabilities to help.

[Tango]

[Stargazer]

Amazing, or more like appaling, such selfishness, arogance. Truly pride is alive and well in Mormonism.

Actually, I think you have mistaken gratitude for something else.