Japan Earthquake and Tsunami Outcome Orchestrated by The Lord

[44Foxtrot]

Here's something I posted earlier today on another board where mostly secular critics were hyperventilating about the evils of the Japan area presidency's statement:

Dr. Peterson,

Thanks for confirming that I am not the only hyperventilating critic who found the Japan area presidency statement inappropriate.

[Senator]

I do believe it is wholly inappropriate for Mormons to be claiming a miracle orchestrated by God especially for their missionaries when they know that thousands lost their lives.

Foxtrot,

I can understand what you're saying.

I can also understand the exuberance that a person in a stewardship position, tasked with the responsibility of the safety and well being of those under his stewardship, might feel knowing those under his care have been reported safe.

I can't understand the need to make issue of it at this point in time.

There's a time for rejoicing, and a time for mourning.

The time of mourning is just beginning. And there's going to be a lot of it, by this Area President and many others.

[Jeff K.]

Every life saved is a miracle, the first portion of those many miracles or tender mercies of the Lord was being reported. There will be mourning and there will be humble and grateful supplication for those still with us. And there will still be Foxtrot who will take glee in condemning the entire episode. How sad his life must be.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

(Emphasis is mine.)

It is likely that thousands, or even tens of thousands, of Japanese were killed in this natural disaster. Was the outcome really a miracle orchestrated by the Lord?

Since no one here speaks for "the Lord", no one here can answer.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The subject of the OP is not the secular nature of the Japanese Self Defense Force; it is the rank insensitivity and hubris on display in the Mormon claim that God orchestrated the outcome of the events related to the 8.9 earthquake for the benefit of Mormon missionaries.

There is no "Mormon claim". There is a Mormon who made the remarks, unless issued by the 1st Presidency...again there is no Mormon claim.

[Deborah]

It is certainly offensive if the principal claims in the letter that God orchestrated the events of the day so that the specific children in the class would all be saved when thousand of others are known to have died, and then makes that letter public on the internet.

THAT IS NOT WHAT IT SAID! LEARN TO READ...IN CONTEXT.

Once again, he was saying that God had a hand in locating all the missionaries.

[MorningStar]

Dr. Peterson,

Thanks for confirming that I am not the only hyperventilating critic who found the Japan area presidency statement inappropriate.

Of course you're not the only critic who feels that way. Critics obsessed with attacking the church hang on every word and twist it to mean what they want it to mean. Instead of focusing on what they could do to help people during this tragedy, it's, "Let's see what horrible things the church is saying!"

[LDSToronto]

It is likely that thousands, or even tens of thousands, of Japanese were killed in this natural disaster. Was the outcome really a miracle orchestrated by the Lord?

I have two friends in Japan - one who lives there, one serving a mission. My heart almost stopped when I heard about this disaster and I was on the phone immediately to find out if both were safe.

My heart also went out to the people of Japan - I have something of an affinity to them, from my own youth and from my career. Unfortunately, I can't call each of them to find out if they are safe, so I have to put my trust in the proper authorities to assist them.

I was grateful that the mission president posted news of my friends mission, stating all were accounted for. And whether it was a miracle or not, that's beside the point. The Church sought to account for it's own first. It has a responsibility to the missionaries serving in Japan, and a responsibility to the parents of those missionaries.

I view the statement as one of thanksgiving and gratitude for whatever hand God had in helping find those that the Church was seeking, and see no hubris whatsoever in the statement.

H.

[Jeff K.]

LDS Toronto and I agree on almost nothing. Except this. It is thanksgiving, it is also a prayerful supplication to the Lord that he help all of those families in Japan and those elsewhere who are affected by the tragedy. Regardless of one's beliefs, hoping for the better and giving thanks should never be second guessed or condemned. My coworker is an atheist, and his hopes are no less intense and thoughtful than mine. I do not condemn him because he believes in no God, but I celebrate and join him in that hope. He in turn has often stated while he cannot understand my beliefs (to him it seems useless), he can understand my desire for those beliefs. He would never condemn such hopes in others.

Foxtrot seems to miss that in his missive.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

What is the most amazing thing in this thread?

The OP or that Jaybear is correct.

[Daniel Peterson]

Thanks for confirming that I am not the only hyperventilating critic who found the Japan area presidency statement inappropriate.

You are, indeed, not the only hyperventilating critic who was able to find something in the Japan area presidency's statement with which to demonize and mock them. There were three or four others, who, like you, despise Mormonism and hold Mormons in contempt and who are extremely active on the Web in constantly attacking the Church.

If this statement was the first comment issued by the Japan area presidency regarding the disaster -- which is possible but seems unlikely and has not been demonstrated -- it might have been worded a bit better, so as to express concern for all those who have suffered. But, even in that case, the hostile, over-the-top criticism to which you and your spiritual kin have subjected the statement would seem (at a minimum) ill-timed and misplaced when contrasted with all the other things going on in Japan over the past few days. It requires little to sit in comfort and ease several thousand miles away while harshly criticizing the word choices of men who are almost certainly working very long and very intensive days attempting to cope with a massive humanitarian catastrophe. And it helps even less.

http://www.mormontimes.com/article/20012/Observing-weakness-with-charity

[ERayR]

It is certainly offensive if the principal claims in the letter that God orchestrated the events of the day so that the specific children in the class would all be saved when thousand of others are known to have died, and then makes that letter public on the internet.

How can you think otherwise?

The only thing offensive is your rants.

[Deborah]

What is the most amazing thing in this thread?

The OP or that Jaybear is correct.

Ha, ha. I've agreed with Jaybear on occasion.

What is amazing to me is how in today's world every word is parsed rather than looking at the context in which something is said. It's a sad statement when someone can't say something in the emotion of the moment without being criticized and judged for not saying it quite right, or as in this case so that no one, no matter how poor their reading comprehension,can take it wrong.

[Deborah]

For those interested this statement was released on Saturday update

Church leaders confirmed this morning that all missionaries from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints serving in Japan are safe and accounted for. The Church had been working diligently to make contact with missionaries in Sendai despite difficulty with communication systems and traveling in and around the city. Families and friends of the missionaries in the Sendai area had been anxiously awaiting word that their loved ones were safe. The Church released a statement yesterday saying, "our thoughts and prayers are with the people of Japan following the recent devastating earthquake and tsunami."

The Church is assessing the needs of its members and others in the communities impacted by the earthquake. Hundreds of individuals have been confirmed dead and tens of thousands have been displaced. Hundreds of homes and buildings have been destroyed and strong aftershocks continue to shake the area. The 8.9 magnitude quake was the strongest quake on record in Japan.

Obviously this was issued in response to the critics who are unable to read or understand the previous statement given.

[Jeff K.]

On occasion I have agreed with Jaybear, I cannot repent of such a transgression when I feel he is right or in the least, when he and I agree to the rightness of a cause. One imagines the difficulty facing the mission presidents who must quickly ascertain who is in danger and who is unaccounted for. They take their position with the utmost seriousness and see themselves as vicarious parents helping the children learn and grow. Like parents they seek the safety at all costs and mourn with equal sadness.

A parent who is grateful for God's miracle in saving the life of their child does not mean the parent is insensitive to others in similar circumstances. Nor does an area president, mission president, bishop or anyone else in the church. They merely give thanks for the small miracle that has occurred. When we prayed in church last Sunday, we did not pray for the Saints in Japan, we prayed for the Japanese as spiritual brothers and sisters.

Why do people like Foxtrot find it so hard to understand?

[bluebell]

Why do people like Foxtrot find it so hard to understand?

Because they don't want to. They want to condemn. They seem to get joy or satisfaction from it.

[LDS Guy 1986]

(Emphasis is mine.)

It is likely that thousands, or even tens of thousands, of Japanese were killed in this natural disaster. Was the outcome really a miracle orchestrated by the Lord?

Do Mormon leaders think that faithful Japanese who lost friends or family in this disaster agree with this unimaginable hubris, or take comfort in the claim that the Lord orchestrated the outcome of the disaster?

Why should the outcome be proclaimed a miracle (even for Mormons) before the fates of all the Japanese LDS faithful are known?

Why would God care more about missionaries than other faithful Mormons, and more about Mormons than non-Mormons?

Do Mormons think at all before they write this stuff and post it on the internet?

I see it as sympomatic that there will be faithful Mormons who read the above statement from the area presidency and see no problem with it at all.

Wow, you did you read anything about this at all?

I will assume no cause you could not of read this and made the comments you did.

No one said the Tsunami or the Earthquake was a outcome of the lord, or that the entire aftermath was an outcome of the lord.

It simply states that the fact that every LDS missionary in Japan is accounted for and safe after such a terrible disaster is the will of God and miraculous.

Seeing that tens of thousands of people are unaccounted from in Japan that is pretty miraculousness IMO.

Also if you understand LDS theology we believe that Missionaries are on the lord's errand and are entitled to protections and gifts from God to carry out there mission. So the miraculous outcome that every LDS missionary is safe and accounted for in such a quick timeframe is not only uplifting but strengthens our faith that these Brothers and Sisters are being protected by God while they do his work.

[Senator]

Also if you understand LDS theology we believe that Missionaries are on the lord's errand and are entitled to protections and gifts from God to carry out there mission. So the miraculous outcome that every LDS missionary is safe and accounted for in such a quick timeframe is not only uplifting but strengthens our faith that these Brothers and Sisters are being protected by God while they do his work.

See now, there you go and have to give Foxtrot fodder for his criticisms.

What might be felt from such a statement by the parents of the missionary that was killed at another place and time? While I'm sure their first expression would be gratitude that others were spared the suffering, I can't help but think that the question might arise in their minds, "Why didn't God protect our boy?"

[LDS Guy 1986]

See now, there you go and have to give Foxtrot fodder for his criticisms.

What might be felt from such a statement by the parents of the missionary that was killed at another place and time? While I'm sure their first expression would be gratitude that others were spared the suffering, I can't help but think that the question might arise in their minds, "Why didn't God protect our boy?"

Well, this is why we have faith that God's plan is higher than our plans as mortals. A common explanation I hear is that God called them to serve in the Spirit World that they has accomplished the progress they needed to achieve in mortality and were needed to do more important works in the spirit world instead of tarrying longer in mortality.

The best response to this is this months first Presidency Message which can be read here: http://lds.org/liaho...e-good?lang=eng

President Uchdorf explains here that attitude is so important if you want to find wrong you will find it. If foxtrot wants to find fault in the world and blame God for it then he will find it if he wants to find miracles in the world and praise God for them he will find them also.

Attitude determines who we are and how we interpret the world around us!

[Senator]

A common explanation I hear is that God called them to serve in the Spirit World that they has accomplished the progress they needed to achieve in mortality and were needed to do more important works in the spirit world instead of tarrying longer in mortality.

Ya, I've heard that.....

[LDS Guy 1986]

Ya, I've heard that.....

OK?

Once again are you hear to discuss or to obstruct discussion?

[Senator]

OK?

Once again are you hear to discuss or to obstruct discussion?

How have I obstructed the discussion?

You need to drop the defensiveness.

[SilverKnight]

Well, this is why we have faith that God's plan is higher than our plans as mortals. A common explanation I hear is that God called them to serve in the Spirit World that they has accomplished the progress they needed to achieve in mortality and were needed to do more important works in the spirit world instead of tarrying longer in mortality.

This isn't helping.

You are giving 44Foxtrot the bumbling mormon hubris that he is so eagerly slavering to chew on.

That said, I feel the area presidency comments are completely reasonable, compassionate and appropriate in giving hope to concerned parents who might have missionaries in the area.

44Foxtrot is very eager to turn this into a Pat Robertson/Haiti moment, but it's simply not.

[Luigi]

I think the offense comes not in the rejoicing at the safety of the missionaries but in the praise to an omnipotent being who LDS members beileve is easily capable of sparing everyone but who chose to save a few who happened to be LDS missionaries. For example, no one would praise the crew of a boat that responded to a sinking ship that, despite having plenty of extra room, left most the passengers to drown to death once they had loaded off a few close friends. None of us would release a press statement saying how grateful we were that the crew saved the ones we loved when we recognized that with relatively little extra effort they could have saved so many more.

[LDSToronto]

I think the offense comes not in the rejoicing at the safety of the missionaries but in the praise to an omnipotent being who LDS members beileve is easily capable of sparing everyone but who chose to save a few who happened to be LDS missionaries. For example, no one would praise the crew of a boat that responded to a sinking ship that, despite having plenty of extra room, left most the passengers to drown to death once they had loaded off a few close friends. None of us would release a press statement saying how grateful we were that the crew saved the ones we loved when we recognized that with relatively little extra effort they could have saved so many more.

The thing is, more than just Mormon's and missionaries have been saved. You might have an argument if all of Japan sank and only LDS were magically saved. The fact is, a good portion of Japan, missionaries and members included, are suffering right now. We are happy that those who survived, survived, but are not naive enough to believe that anyone is in the clear, LDS and non-LDS alike.

Anyway, I hate having debates about people who are suffering right now; kind of makes me feel as though I'm exploiting someone else's tragedy for my own selfish need to argue.

H.