Japan Earthquake and Tsunami Outcome Orchestrated by The Lord

[Deborah]

I understand that Glenn Beck does not speak for the Mormon Church.

You are right, he doesn't. Glenn in fact has a large following of non-LDS who likewise believe we live in dangerous times and he plays to that audience.

Being somewhat familiar with his views I would suggest he is saying a message from God in the sense of warning of things that are yet to come and to get prepared. Many people on FB are talking about getting a supply of food and water for such events so I think that it is a wake call any time something like this happens. Katrina had the same effect. Sadly it's always short-term. People quickly forget.

Seriously foxtrot how much time do you spend digging up stuff to say "gotcha."

[Jeff K.]

I recognize and appreciate the differences of opinion expressed regarding the understanding of some of the critics here as to the intent and meaning the Japan Area Presidency statement.

However, there can be little doubt about the intent of the words from this prominent Mormon on the issue:

I understand that Glenn Beck does not speak for the Mormon Church. However, he is a very public face of Mormonism, and is an individual who (self) promotes the stereotype of the off-the-wall religionist that so many here try to avoid.

I can't believe this, it is moronic to hold an entire church applicable to the words of one member who doesn't even hold ecclesiatical leadership office. If you measure our lineage of authority by the popularity a member has towards non members. One has to question the sanity of the person. Donny and Marie did not run or influence the church in the 1970's, Glenn Beck does not run it or influence the church now.

Get over your illogical hate. It makes you seem like a clown parody of a real person.

[44Foxtrot]

I can't believe this, it is moronic to hold an entire church applicable to the words of one member who doesn't even hold ecclesiatical leadership office. If you measure our lineage of authority by the popularity a member has towards non members. One has to question the sanity of the person. Donny and Marie did not run or influence the church in the 1970's, Glenn Beck does not run it or influence the church now.

Get over your illogical hate. It makes you seem like a clown parody of a real person.

Jeff,

I did not say that Glenn Beck influences what goes on in the Church or is responsible in any way for its leadership. I simply stated, and correctly so, that he is a highly prominent and visible Mormon, and that for better or worse, fairly or unfairly, people associate what he says with (what they see as ) Mormon believes, especially when it comes to religion and God.

Apparently this makes you uncomfortable. You are not the only one. Glenn Beck makes me very uncomfortable.

When I stated, "It happens every time", in response to Silver Knight's comment about the Bible thumping creten, this is the kind of thing (I think) he was talking about.

[pcarthew]

Phil:

I'm glad to hear that your son is safe. I shared your post with my wife and with my son (who served in Nagoya). They enjoyed it very much.

-dcp

Bro Peterson,

Thanks. So good to hear from you. Susan has been very stressed. They are having trouble locating food, although they have have enough to stay reasonably well. He was about 80km from the epicentre of the quake. He is happy he could rescue his journal, he said that was his only concern, basically everything else has to be left behind. He is quite close to the nuclear power plant at Fukushima, i just heard on the news of a third explosion, we are just leaving it in the hands of the Lord. We haven't had much sleep since Friday. I cannot tell you just how wonderful our local area presidency have been in passing on information and keeping contact with us. We feel so very blessed. So now we will just continue to pray and have faith.

Thanks for you interest, Susan and I appreciate it more than know at this worrying time

[44Foxtrot]

You are right, he doesn't. Glenn in fact has a large following of non-LDS who likewise believe we live in dangerous times and he plays to that audience.

Being somewhat familiar with his views I would suggest he is saying a message from God in the sense of warning of things that are yet to come and to get prepared. Many people on FB are talking about getting a supply of food and water for such events so I think that it is a wake call any time something like this happens. Katrina had the same effect. Sadly it's always short-term. People quickly forget.

Seriously foxtrot how much time do you spend digging up stuff to say "gotcha."

Why is it that when I cite evidence that supports my position on an issue, it is a "gotcha", and when you cite evidence to support your position it reflects deep insight and understanding of eternal truths?

And to your question as to time spent, the answer is; very little, actually. This stuff seems to find its own way into the headlines. (Seriously.)

[cdowis]

All three of my sons served honorable missions, two of them overseas. I would never, ever, claim (or even presume) that God would take care or my sons (or had taken care of my sons) while ignoring the plight of others in the same situation.

Would you?

Here is what appeared on the LDS Website:

I find this to be an appaling demonstration of Mormon arrogance and claimed priviledge.

I will share with you a true story.

A good faithful LDS father prayed each day for the safety of his children. One day the thought crossed his mind as he was saying his pray, "I wonder if it really does any good to ask that they are protected." He then heard a voice, "We shall see."

A few weeks later he found out. One of his relatives was having a wedding. They had changed the date of the wedding several times, and finally had the wedding. My daughter, her husband and all four children attended the wedding which was only a few miles from their house. There was strong winds in the area. Just before the wedding my son-in-law got a phone call. His entire house had blown away -- everything was gone, only the foundation was left.

They had left the house only an hour earlier. Otherwise the entire family would have been in that house. It is interesting that the other houses were only slightly damaged but the tornado had hit just their house -- as if on purpose.

If the wedding had been on another day, if the wedding had been an hour or so later, all of them would have been in that house, the house that was completely, totally destroyed, with only the foundation remaining.

Was my question to the Lord just a few weeks ago, the very unexpected answer to my question, was a testimony to me that the Lord can and does give us protection.

Thousands, millions pray for the safety of the missionaries. Some still die, but others receive the special protection from the Lord. I learned, yes, prayer really does matter.

I am sure you will argue, quibble, mock... but I know what I know.

[Pahoran]

Why is it that when I cite evidence that supports my position on an issue, it is a "gotcha", and when you cite evidence to support your position it reflects deep insight and understanding of eternal truths?

Perhaps because Deborah doesn't rely upon "Christine Jonsen" type arguments. Of which your Beck citation is just another example.

And to your question as to time spent, the answer is; very little, actually. This stuff seems to find its own way into the headlines. (Seriously.)

Call for references that the Area Presidency letter found "its own way into the headlines. (Seriously.)"

Regards,

Pahoran

[Nathair/|\]

Jeff,

I did not say that Glenn Beck influences what goes on in the Church or is responsible in any way for its leadership. I simply stated, and correctly so, that he is a highly prominent and visible Mormon, and that for better or worse, fairly or unfairly, people associate what he says with (what they see as ) Mormon believes, especially when it comes to religion and God.

Apparently this makes you uncomfortable. You are not the only one. Glenn Beck makes me very uncomfortable.

When I stated, "It happens every time", in response to Silver Knight's comment about the Bible thumping creten, this is the kind of thing (I think) he was talking about.

As well he should, for much the same reason that Nephi made Laman uncomfortable.

[44Foxtrot]

As well he should, for much the same reason that Nephi made Laman uncomfortable.

Nope. That is not it. Glenn Beck makes me uncomfortable because he has a very tenuous grip on reality, makes up stuff as he goes along (when not trying to channel Cleon Skousen), revels in his own ignorance and simply does a "Who me?", when he is called on it. .

[Jeff K.]

Jeff,

I did not say that Glenn Beck influences what goes on in the Church or is responsible in any way for its leadership. I simply stated, and correctly so, that he is a highly prominent and visible Mormon, and that for better or worse, fairly or unfairly, people associate what he says with (what they see as ) Mormon believes, especially when it comes to religion and God.

Apparently this makes you uncomfortable. You are not the only one. Glenn Beck makes me very uncomfortable.

When I stated, "It happens every time", in response to Silver Knight's comment about the Bible thumping creten, this is the kind of thing (I think) he was talking about.

I am not uncomfortable with Glenn Beck, to be honest I have never seen his program. You raise an invalid point that screams sheer idiocy. I expect you to quote Donnie and Marie next. Typical haters stating "just sayin".

Glenn Beck makes you uncomfortable because he is smarter than you, but then, alot of people probably make you uncomfortable. So tell us Foxtrot, how would you tie Donnie and Marie or maybe the Osmond brothers (since they probably make you uncomfortable too) into church leadership decisions, emails to the church from Japan.

It seems on everythread you help add another nail to the coffin of Foxtrot. Once again citing people who have no authority in the church in order to "stir up controversy", when all you do is provide comic relief. What kind of incredibly diminutive intellect thinks Glenn Beck has influence in the church?

[Sleeper Cell]

Jeff,

I did not say that Glenn Beck influences what goes on in the Church or is responsible in any way for its leadership. I simply stated, and correctly so, that he is a highly prominent and visible Mormon, and that for better or worse, fairly or unfairly, people associate what he says with (what they see as ) Mormon believes, especially when it comes to religion and God.

Apparently this makes you uncomfortable. You are not the only one. Glenn Beck makes me very uncomfortable.

When I stated, "It happens every time", in response to Silver Knight's comment about the Bible thumping creten, this is the kind of thing (I think) he was talking about.

I wonder what a secular version of a

[LDS Guy 1986]

I wonder what a secular version of a

[Pahoran]

A lot like Richard Dawkins probally, and/or Bill Maher

Do you see a need to look that far afield?

Regards,

Pahoran

[Sky]

Hi 44Foxtrot

[mfbukowski]

I am very glad for divine intervention.

Thanks so much for that post!

I am so glad your son is well. Your feelings must be inexpressible!

[mfbukowski]

Get over your illogical hate. It makes you seem like a clown parody of a real person.

That is exactly right.

It's so over the top as to be literally incredible. He has to be faking it.

Why should he care at all?

I don't go on Flying Spaghetti Monster websites and tell them how silly their religion is. I really don't care what others believe- why hassle anyone for their beliefs?

[Stargazer]

Long time ago one of my children's bicycles was stolen. Its frame, minus wheels, seat, handlebars and chain were later found at the bottom of a stairwell in a neighboring apartment building. In an effort to try to track down the missing parts and possibly the perp, I contacted one of the families that lived on the floor immediately above the bottom of the stairwell. Because of their proximity, it seemed at least possible that some family member had seen something, so I asked the dad of the family if anyone in his family might have seen who had deposited the bike's frame there. He proceeded to act as if I had accused his son of stealing the bike. "My son didn't steal the bike," he stated. "I'm sure he didn't, I was just wondering if anyone in your family had seen who might have left the bike there." He responded, "Didn't you hear me? I said my son didn't steal the bike!" I replied, "I'm sorry, that's not what I said nor what I was asking." The conversation went downhill from there, with him summoning his son to get a direct disavowal of the theft of the bike. I responded that I wasn't accusing his son or anyone else in the family of taking it, but was just wondering if anyone had seen anything that could lead to recovery of the parts, etc. He continued to act as if I was still accusing his son of stealing the bike, and ultimately told me to get out of his apartment building because his son hadn't stolen our bike.

Sounds really off-topic to the OP, doesn't it, yet the conversation here with 44Foxtrot reminds me incredibly of that long-ago interview with the father who couldn't let loose of the notion, despite everything he heard me say to the contrary, that I was accusing his son of theft.

I was surprised at the thought that 44Foxtrot could be DrW, as Pahoran has suggested, but upon reflection his posting style and everything he has said about himself actually suggests this is a correct assessment. And just as It dawned on me years later that it probably was that guy's son who stole our bike (he protested too much, definitely), I am now pretty certain that Pahoran has hit the nail on the head about 44Foxtrot's true identity.

[mfbukowski]

I was surprised at the thought that 44Foxtrot could be DrW, as Pahoran has suggested, but upon reflection his posting style and everything he has said about himself actually suggests this is a correct assessment. And just as It dawned on me years later that it probably was that guy's son who stole our bike (he protested too much, definitely), I am now pretty certain that Pahoran has hit the nail on the head about 44Foxtrot's true identity.

Could be, but Caudicus (spelling?- too lazy to look it up!) has a similar disability to see the world with any flexibility whatsoever. To argue effectively, one must be able to at least see if from another point of view- your opponent's- so you see the weakness in their position.

But these guys are so totally locked into their own point of view they cannot even visualize anything else. It's hard to believe that more than one person could be precisely that rigid in the same way.

[Mordecai]

I find this to be an appaling demonstration of Mormon arrogance and claimed priviledge...

Wow. Amazing how people read things. Mormons have faith in God, that He is specifically helping them as we ask Him to. To assume He did nothing would be ingratitude, which is a sin. It's better to ere in the side of caution than be ungrateful. I think Mormons believe we receive blessings based on faith, prayer and doing God's will, as opposed to being vain and thinking we are inherently better than others. There is a huge difference. I think that when God does things for us, or at least when we believe He is blessing us, we are humbled. At least we are if we have the right attitude and understanding of doctrine. This position and attitude is the opposite of hubris/pride. I think you have a poor understanding of doctrine and recommend you read the scriptures to understand how feeling blessed and grateful is actually humbling.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Do you see a need to look that far afield?

Regards,

Pahoran

Hahahahah, what a good laugh.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Dear Brothers and Sisters of Japan,

1. We sincerely appreciate the efforts of Pres. Tateoka who has worked continuously since the earthquake to account for his missionaries.

2. We also thank the many members who have helped in this effort.

3. We had a large number of church employees who stayed in the Area office building overnight and most of Saturday to help in this time of emergency and we greatly appreciate their service.

4. We will now make every effort to locate and evaluate the condition of all of our members in Japan.

5. Please inform your priesthood leaders of any information you have on the condition of our members. Brother Darwin Halvorson, our area welfare manager, coordinated much of the effort today and will continue to evaluate and arrange for welfare needs throughout the area.

The

outcome

today

really is a miraculous result orchestrated by the Lord.

We have been uplifted to have observed all that has taken place leading to this result.

We give our thanks to Heavenly Father for his mercy and blessings this day and pray that we now find our members throughout Japan alive and well.

What is wrong with you? With the horror of the still unfolding destruction expressing your hatred based on a few words is your response? Disgusting!

How in the world could you possibly insert all that ugliness into a statement that is clearly talking about the effort put into finding these missionaries? The message only hopes that other LDS are alive. It is today's outcome that is being called miraculous. The "outcome" is plainly attributed to the work of people.

What date are they referring to as "today", Foxtrot?

Good job

[ERayR]

Nope. That is not it. Glenn Beck makes me uncomfortable because he has a very tenuous grip on reality, makes up stuff as he goes along (when not trying to channel Cleon Skousen), revels in his own ignorance and simply does a "Who me?", when he is called on it. .

It seems to me a little incongruous for you to be judging anybodies grip an reality.

[ERayR]

A lot like Richard Dawkins probally, and/or Bill Maher

Or maybe Foxtrot44.

[Mark Beesley]

I recognize and appreciate the differences of opinion expressed regarding the understanding of some of the critics here as to the intent and meaning the Japan Area Presidency statement.

One poster quite correctly pointed out that it was (or may have been) a translation. I can certainly see where, under the circumstances, the wording may not have been as carefully reviewed as in normal times. I still saw it as a potential PR problem and apparently so did the folks who released it.

However, there can be little doubt about the intent of the words from this prominent Mormon on the issue:

I understand that Glenn Beck does not speak for the Mormon Church. However, he is a very public face of Mormonism, and is an individual who (self) promotes the stereotype of the off-the-wall religionist that so many here try to avoid.

Ya know, anytime you think that it is a good idea to make any type of reference to Glenn Beck in order to make a point, it's probably time to power-down the computer and go mow the lawn, or something.

[Walden]

Stuff just happens. It is not a miracle or a punishment from God.

Monster has summarized the earthquake and tsunami in Japan in a nutshell.....there is no need to impart divine intervention into an event that can easily be explained through only a cursory understanding of geology and plate tectonics. Likewise, the fact that LDS missionaries survived this event is no more proof of god's intervention on their part than it would be to say that god is punishing the estimated 10,000 people who have perished in this event.

It's amazing that after the scientific advancements of the past 5000 years, during which much of the natural events and catastrophes that were once attributed to gods have been fully explained by science, there are still people who look to the heavens and wonder about "god's" motivation for triggering these events or attribute perfectly explainable circumstances to divine intervention.

It's quite like that movie "The God's Must Be Crazy".....of course there was a rational explanation for the Coke bottle falling from the sky. Just becasue the bushmen couldn't explain it, they attribute it to their "gods." How is this any different than believers attributing natural disasters or uncommon natural occurences to their "god"?