Facial Hair and Church Leadership Callings

[Bernard Gui]

I think at the bottom line of all this is that the "Lord's Servants" should have a certain "conservative" look. In the church's early days, "conservative" meant a beard- now it does not. Can missionaries shave their heads? No. Why not? It's not "conservative"

Excuse me! I am bald and I vote strictly Republican, listen to Rush and Glen, and make only right turns in my car. I refuse to go with the little white fringe around the edges, so

it all comes off! Mrs. Gui, bless her heart, made the suggestion that I stop the comb-over, and as usual, she was right.

By the way, that's me and my youngest son Porfilio Gui in my avatar. The photo is digitally altered. That is not my hair or beard.

Bernard

[mfbukowski]

Ok everybody- just realize I am stirring the pot 1- for fun and 2- to raise issues for us to think about. I used to have a full beard and mustache and hair down to the middle of my back- and in fact that is pretty much how I looked just before I joined the church. Hairy chest, shirt open two or three buttons down, and gold chains.

Heck it was the fashion! Guess what? I even had a testimony then!

Why shouldn't the prophet dress that way? What's wrong with it?

Seriously- What IS wrong with it??

If it is somehow "wrong" or doesn't seem appropriate- where do we draw the line and why?

Isn't every member a missionary? Aren't we all representatives of the savior? Aren't all callings "equal"?

So I vote - - for missionaries with tattoos and piercings, so they can communicate more clearly with the people they contact every day. Missionary sisters should wear modern fashions- shorts, flip flops, mini skirts, whatever they want.

After all we are IN the world, and whatever you are wearing doesn't make you OF the world anyway.

Does it?

[Hamba Tuhan]

Isn't every member a missionary? Aren't we all representatives of the savior? Aren't all callings "equal"?

So I vote - - for missionaries with tattoos and piercings, so they can communicate more clearly with the people they contact every day.

Interestingly, we received last month an email from our area president informing us that the Church hopes to launch a local 'I'm a Mormon' ad campaign here as they have done in America. Stake leaders were asked to consider members who would make good ambassadors of the Church in the ads. In the email, we were pointed to several profiles on mormon.org which include members who don't exactly look 'conservative' and were encouraged specifically not to let things like facial hair deter us from considering those to be included. In fact, we were told that we should intentionally seek out faithful but possibly 'quirky' members to whom people can hopefully relate.

[mfbukowski]

I'm just tossing my ideas out, not really arguing for one thing or the other...

Missionaries are full-time. Other callings (like Elders quorum president) are "part-time" so to speak. I still have my job, family, etc. What if having facial hair would help me in my career? As a teacher, I could argue that having facial hair makes me more respectable and my students are more likely to comply with my requests... (this is just way out there, but it's just an example for argument's sake). Or what if having facial hair makes me more desirable to my wife? I, after all, have a commitment to her and my body is not my own but her's too (if 1 Corinthians is to be believed).

Again making it clear that I am here purely for the love of stirring up controversy and being an ornery cuss....

So we are not all "full time" representatives of the savior? You could also argue that going out for drinks with the faculty could further your career, or that your wife might like tattoos and piercings....

Double, double toil and trouble;

Fire burn, and caldron bubble.

[mfbukowski]

Interestingly, we received last month an email from our area president informing us that the Church hopes to launch a local 'I'm a Mormon' ad campaign here as they have done in America. Stake leaders were asked to consider members who would make good ambassadors of the Church in the ads. In the email, we were pointed to several profiles on mormon.org which include members who don't exactly look 'conservative' and were encouraged specifically not to let things like facial hair deter us from considering those to be included. In fact, we were told that we should intentionally seek out faithful but possibly 'quirky' members to whom people can hopefully relate.

Yes I think that is a good thing, (I actually do as opposed to playing around...)

So let's go for missionaries with facial hair- and what the heck- facial tattoos! Heck- it's totally acceptable in many parts of the world and after all we are one family, right?

[Hamba Tuhan]

So let's go for missionaries with facial hair- and what the heck- facial tattoos!

Good idea. Especially since pointing out that there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHURCH POLICY PROSCRIBING FACIAL HAIR for ordinary members and that anyone who says otherwise is imposing his/her personal preference on others shares a clear and obvious logical connection with advocating for bearded/tattooed missionaries.

[Macabus]

I had a beard as a priest until shortly before I left on my mission. My bishop, seminary teachers or my parents were constantly trying to get me to shave it. I did when I was ready.

The first counselor in our bishopric had a fine mustache. I've had one for the past few years(as I attend BYU and wouldn't qualify for a beard card). I find facial hair discrimination upsetting. Just watch a television show and see whether the hero or the villain is sporting the facial hair. Most instances, not all, place the villain with a mustache, goatee or beard and usually the hero is devoid of facial hair. The way Americans view facial hair is highly influenced by their exposure through various media. In certain countries, like Germany, facial hair, and mustaches in particular, are viewed as very acceptable if not desirable.

I understand that the Church doesn't want to upset the waters too much and maintain a conservative image, and I don't condone extreme styles or behaviors, but naturally occurring facial hair does not qualify as an extreme style or behavior.

[Glenn101]

I had a beard as a priest until shortly before I left on my mission. My bishop, seminary teachers or my parents were constantly trying to get me to shave it. I did when I was ready.

The first counselor in our bishopric had a fine mustache. I've had one for the past few years(as I attend BYU and wouldn't qualify for a beard card). I find facial hair discrimination upsetting. Just watch a television show and see whether the hero or the villain is sporting the facial hair. Most instances, not all, place the villain with a mustache, goatee or beard and usually the hero is devoid of facial hair. The way Americans view facial hair is highly influenced by their exposure through various media. In certain countries, like Germany, facial hair, and mustaches in particular, are viewed as very acceptable if not desirable.

I understand that the Church doesn't want to upset the waters too much and maintain a conservative image, and I don't condone extreme styles or behaviors, but naturally occurring facial hair does not qualify as an extreme style or behavior.

I think that you may be a bit off on the current trend in heroes and beards. I have noticed a trend for the 'good guy" to now almost universally sport a scruffy beard and probably ride a motorcycle while the clean shaven opposite is maybe not a villian but most always a stuffed shirt control freak.

The big problem with favcial hair in the church came from the beatnik and hippy movements of the fiftties and sixties. The church did not want its leadership to be identified with either of those ideologies and whether officially or not, facial hair was frowned upon.

I have never been one for facial hair myself, although I once sported long sideburns. I have no hearburn with those who feel comfortable with mustaches or facial hair in leadership positions, else I would have to reject Brugham young and a host of other modern day prophets, nit to mention those of olden times.

I am wont to wear shirts other than white to church, but would have no problem wearing only white if asked to do so when asked to accept a calling. My main thing is not to call attention to myself but to call attention to the gospel.

Glenn

[Ticketyboo]

Sorry to be so late in replying to this thread, but I can talk from personal experience.

When I was called as BP about 7 years ago, I was informed that I was OK to keep my beard because my ex-member wife preferred me with it.

5 years ago I was informed by the SP that it had to go as a result of some training that they just had at the London Temple, but were not specific.

I didn't feel the need to question.

When I was released 18 months ago, I immediately grew it back.

I saw this pattern with other unit leaders & SHC's who had beards before being called.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I agree. But is there sin in not following your leaders counsel even on something that seems so trivial?

There is no counsel for rank and file. BTW you can look at my profile picture (as long as you have not just eaten) and see what i looked like when called into the Bishopric and remained so for the three years I served.

[petethechop]

When I worked for The Church in downtown SLC, Utah (2000-2003), the dress code dictated that you couldn't have any facial hair unless it was a mustache. I never could figure that one out. I'm pretty sure it was put in place right around the time that Magnum P.I. was hip.

:-|P

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I have learned through personal revelation that beards are bad.

People with facial hair will rot in hell.

[Nathair/|\]

I have learned through personal revelation that beards are bad.

People with facial hair will rot in hell.

I'm growing a beard and I am planning to go to Tir na nOg. Either that, or I am going to live in an oak tree or a crystal cave like Myrddin Emrys.

[ElfLord]

I have learned through personal revelation that beards are bad.

People with facial hair will rot in hell.

Well Christ wore a beard and he did descend to hell to haro it prior to his ascention with his beard intact.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Well Christ wore a beard and he did descend to hell to haro it prior to his ascention with his beard intact.

Aha. That is great.

[Brenda]

Who cares?? If a priesthood leader asks you to shave, regardless if whether he is out of line or not, it's a good opportunity for you to learn a little humility. Just do it. I repeat, who cares??? I don't get being all bent out of shape over this.

Imagine what our ancestors must think! They had to abandon their homes, walk for days in the mud, leave their destitute families to serve missions, birth babies outside in the cold and rain, and watch loved ones die in the wilderness. And today we whine about facial hair??!!

To be clean-shaven is so little to ask! Get over it!

[Hamba Tuhan]

Who cares?? If a priesthood leader asks you to shave, regardless if whether he is out of line or not, it's a good opportunity for you to learn a little humility. Just do it.

Would you respond the same way if your priesthood leader asked you to give up chocolate? Sugar? Refined flour?

What about cosmetics? How would you feel if women in your ward were denied callings/recommends if they came to church wearing mascara or lipstick? Is this also just a good opportunity for learning humility?

[ElfLord]

Would you respond the same way if your priesthood leader asked you to give up chocolate? Sugar? Refined flour?

What about cosmetics? How would you feel if women in your ward were denied callings/recommends if they came to church wearing mascara or lipstick? Is this also just a good opportunity for learning humility?

You forgot that most recent critical canard... one pair of earrings.

[bluebell]

You forgot that most recent critical canard... one pair of earrings.

But whether or not a woman is obedient to that directive is never mentioned by the local leadership and it certainly has no bearing on what callings she receives.

[nicolasconnault]

Would you respond the same way if your priesthood leader asked you to give up chocolate? Sugar? Refined flour?

Sure, within the bounds of reason. There has to be a rationale for local commandments. I've never come across any priesthood leader that put nonsensical requirements on their members, so I don't think your scenarios are very realistic.

What about cosmetics? How would you feel if women in your ward were denied callings/recommends if they came to church wearing mascara or lipstick? Is this also just a good opportunity for learning humility?

Of course it is. Look back on some of Joseph Smith's teaching techniques, and you will see how far he went to teach members humility and test their faithfulness.

Besides you forget that, even if the local leaders overstep their ecclesiastical boundaries, this is still the Lord's Church, and He knows what goes on. Your response to an apparently "silly" requirement will be judged by the Lord, first and foremost. Remember that obedience is better than sacrifice

[frankenstein]

as far as I know facial hair is not in the CHI.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I've never come across any priesthood leader that put nonsensical requirements on their members, so I don't think your scenarios are very realistic.

In light of the statement given by Joseph Fielding Smith in post #45 above, it may be more realistic--and potentially damaging--than you think.

To share a personal example, we just released a bishop in our stake. Prior to his release, this bishop had forbidden a brother from naming and blessing his new-born son because he didn't approve of his manner of dress.

Your response to an apparently "silly" requirement will be judged by the Lord, first and foremost. Remember that obedience is better than sacrifice.

On this point an editorial was published in the 1852 Latter-Day Saint

[nicolasconnault]

In light of the statement given by Joseph Fielding Smith in post #45 above, it may be more realistic--and potentially damaging--than you think.

To share a personal example, we just released a bishop in our stake. Prior to his release, this bishop had forbidden a brother from naming and blessing his new-born son because he didn't approve of his manner of dress.

On this point an editorial was published in the 1852 Latter-Day Saint

[OMWO2]

In 1996 I was the HPGL in a unit that was part of the Chattanoga TN stake. During a SS discussion the BP stated that "anyone with facial hair was in rellion and on their way to apostacy". This caused alot of discussion about the source of his statement. He only could remember it being said at BYU fireside in the 60's or 70's (been a long time). About that time a member of my HP group had been called to the HC with a mustache. He had a cleft lip and had the mustache for +40 years including when called by the SP into the HC. Approx 4 weeks after being called into the HC he was released. The SP told him he had waited for him to shave the mustache. A short time later I was in a PPI with the SP and asked about the facial hair policy and was told "I have the right to require clean shaven individuals for ANY stake calling" and even some Bishops and BP decided to apply that policy in their own units. I contacted the Area Authority and it was confirmed that the SP and/or Bishop had that right. This was just my own personal experience at one unit in one stake. Never saw it before or after anywhere else.

[Brenda]

Would you respond the same way if your priesthood leader asked you to give up chocolate? Sugar? Refined flour?

What about cosmetics? How would you feel if women in your ward were denied callings/recommends if they came to church wearing mascara or lipstick? Is this also just a good opportunity for learning humility?

The point is, the examples you give haven't happened. We could go on all night about "what if". I remember when women were asked to wear dresses when visiting teaching. We had so many reasons not to do so, but regardless, we wore dresses. Same with Homemaking Night. We were again asked to wear dresses. We didn't want to, but we did.

We have been asked to only wear one pair of earrings at a time. So we do that. We've been asked to not get a tattoo. So we don't. Now there's talk about not wearing flip flops to church. So don't wear them. Not a big deal.

It's so little to ask and just not worth worrying about in the grand scheme of things.

"Now ye may suppose that this is foolishness in me; but behold I say unto you, that by small and simple things are great things brought to pass; and small means in many instances doth confound the wise." Alma 37:6