Facial Hair and Church Leadership Callings

[LifeOnaPlate]

Who cares?? If a priesthood leader asks you to shave, regardless if whether he is out of line or not, it's a good opportunity for you to learn a little humility. Just do it.

It's an even better opportunity for a priesthood leader to start worrying about more important things rather than Pharisaical facial hair stipulations.

Wanna know what an even better opportunity to learn humility is? Pretty much everything else in the world.

[LifeOnaPlate]

In 1996 I was the HPGL in a unit that was part of the Chattanoga TN stake. During a SS discussion the BP stated that "anyone with facial hair was in rellion and on their way to apostacy". This caused alot of discussion about the source of his statement.

I would have simply said "anyone who accuses people of being on their way to apostasy is surely on their way to apostasy." Then I would say some authority once said that in some BYU fireside in the 80s.

[nicolasconnault]

Before criticising your leaders' decisions (regarding non-critical things like facial hair), maybe you could consider whether or not it's your role to be the ark steadier.

[thesometimesaint]

nicolasconnault:

Sampson had Delilah.

[frankenstein]

Before criticising your leaders' decisions (regarding non-critical things like facial hair), maybe you could consider whether or not it's your role to be the ark steadier.

not the same, if there is written policy or a know policy from HQ then it could be the same

[nicolasconnault]

not the same, if there is written policy or a know policy from HQ then it could be the same

You don't understand what I mean. I'm saying that, if you (rightly or not) see errors in the ways your leaders perform their duty, is it your right and responsibility to correct their behaviour, to rebel against their authority and generally foment discord in your local unit in the hope that it will promote change in the direction you prefer?

Trust me, I'm a stickler, I like to see things done by the book, and every Sunday I see or hear at least one thing I don't like. If I have the urge to get up and correct the leaders, I try to question my motives: am I doing this to genuinely correct a problem that will threaten the salvation of souls? Or am I satisfying my pride and vain ambition by showing that I know the rules better than the bishop? Often, my answer to this question leads me to sit down and shut up.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I have personally and repeatedly seen fabricated 'policies' wreak damage on numerous Saints, often, tragically, the newest, the youngest, and the weakest. We are doing no one any favours by looking the other way whilst allowing this damage to occur. Thankfully, my bishop is an amazing and humble man who has repeatedly begged his congregation not to follow him blindly and who encourages us to ask questions when we feel we may be straying in any way as a community of Saints. When he was first called, I knew we were in for something very good when, at the very first ward council meeting, he placed both Church Handbooks of Instruction in the centre of the table for people to refer to.

In my calling working with the Young Men, we have sought to strictly follow established policies from the handbooks without deviation or innovation, and the end result has been a 500% increase in the number of active Young Men in our ward, with spiritual growth which I don't even know how to begin to measure. Near the beginning of my service, we were visited in our region by a member of the Young Men General Presidency who told us that we were losing our boys because we were ignoring the actual policies of the Church in favour of 'traditions.' He promised us that, if we would start following what was actually written and stop creating our own rules, then we'd see major improvements. We have!

[LifeOnaPlate]

People have enough trials in life generally. Why should we seek to generate more difficulties for our fellow saints in the name of trying to humble them or test them?

[Hamba Tuhan]

People have enough trials in life generally. Why should we seek to generate more difficulties for our fellow saints in the name of trying to humble them or test them?

Amen, brother!

[Jeff K.]

Hair today, gone tomorrow. It is within the purview of Temple Presidents, Mission Presidents and Stake Presidents to make decisions regarding such things. It need not be written in the manual. Nor should someone be considered in apostasy if their hair is too long or they have a mustache or beard, as I have had most of my life until I began working in the Temple.

[DH]

Don't know anything about official policies, but I did have a bishop a few years ago who had a full beard, while he was serving as bishop. It looked quite distinguished, too!

[Brenda]

It's an even better opportunity for a priesthood leader to start worrying about more important things rather than Pharisaical facial hair stipulations.

Wanna know what an even better opportunity to learn humility is? Pretty much everything else in the world.

Humility is being submissive and teachable. Willing to accept counsel. Realizing that someone may know more than you do.

I would be the last person to advise anyone to push a clean-shaven agenda. It's just not worth the commotion. However, I will always remember when our bishop quietly asked my husband (because of his calling) to shave off his newly started beard, and he promptly went home and shaved. He didn't fuss, squack, complain, or express any indignation whatsoever. He just did it. I have always admired his quick and humble willingness to do anything asked of him by a religious leader. I firmly believe it's this same humility and willingness to obey all things that makes him who he is -- one of the finest people I know. A relative of mine has worn a beard for many years, and was recently called into a bishopric. No one asked him to shave. No one even mentioned it. He shaved off his beard. For whatever reason, he felt he needed to do it. I never gave any thought to his beard for all those years. But I admire his sacrifice.

The point is NOT the facial hair. It's the obedience. If you want a beard and no one has asked you to shave, and you feel no spiritual promptings to shave, then don't shave!

"Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things" Matt.25 23

[nicolasconnault]

Being asked to shave one's beard is indeed the start of many a slippery slope

[Nathair/|\]

Being asked to shave one's beard is indeed the start of many a slippery slope

I seem to recall a story about Brigham Young joking that Ephraim K. Hanks should shave his beard off. Ephraim did so. Probably apocryphal.

But I agree that the Bishop shouldn't require it.

[frankenstein]

from some of the post in this thread it is easy to see how non-lds would accuse the lds of blindly following.

personally i would like to see neck ties declared the binding chains of satan.

[thesometimesaint]

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/think.htm

Because God loves us, he has blessed us with prophets through all dispensations. He has not changed. He has also blessed us with great minds and promised us answers to our prayers, after we have done our own careful thinking.

[ElfLord]

Hair today, gone tomorrow. It is within the purview of Temple Presidents, Mission Presidents and Stake Presidents to make decisions regarding such things. It need not be written in the manual. Nor should someone be considered in apostasy if their hair is too long or they have a mustache or beard, as I have had most of my life until I began working in the Temple.

<snip>

<snip>

Seems to me that Paul shaved to go to the temple too...

Acts 21:24

Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

...

"if he shaved in the city it was excusable; but whether he shaved in the city or in the sanctuary, under the pot his hair must be cast; and he did not shave until the door of the court was opened, as it is said, "at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation", Numbers 6:18 not that he shaved over against the door, for that would be a contempt of the sanctuary.''

Pretty practical. Shave at home. But if you come to the temple and shave you need to burn the hair so us Priests don't have to clean up after you.

[Rock_N_Roll]

I've never come across any priesthood leader that put nonsensical requirements on their members, so I don't think your scenarios are very realistic.

I most certainly have. I once knew a branch president who forbid laughter in the church building (even on Mutual night) because of some misunderstood scripture he had read. I also knew a bishop, who told the missionaries in his area, that they were not allowed to baptize anyone until they had faithfully attended church for at least one year, and the members had "accepted" them, and HE would conduct the baptismal interviews.

Both "nonsensical requirements" that I had to go to "higher authority" to have remedied.

[Brenda]

I most certainly have. I once knew a branch president who forbid laughter in the church building (even on Mutual night) because of some misunderstood scripture he had read. I also knew a bishop, who told the missionaries in his area, that they were not allowed to baptize anyone until they had faithfully attended church for at least one year, and the members had "accepted" them, and HE would conduct the baptismal interviews.

Both "nonsensical requirements" that I had to go to "higher authority" to have remedied.

Well thank goodness you were there to set them straight.

Though the Lord is at the head of this church, He permits imperfect mortals to make many of the decisions. This is likely why we have so many meetings - and I don't mean our worship services. Meetings are all about training, training, training. And many of those training meetings happen w/o the main body of the church even being aware. It is a constant and vigilent effort to make sure policies and practices are done correctly worldwide. This is the reason for the CHI. Some things will slip by now and then. But this is the small minority.

I would also guess that there is another side to your examples. It would be useful to hear the branch president's and bishop's versions.

[cinepro]

Can someone explain to me where an aversion to beards might have originated?

Usually, when the Church issues a guideline on appearance, its meaning is obvious from the culture at large.

For example, long hair (for men) was associated with hippies in the 60's. Tattoos and too many earrings (and any earrings for men) are associated with counter-culture attitudes and rebellion against authority. Modesty stems from obvious attitudes about the importance of covering certain parts of the body, and the ungodly feelings of "lust" that can be stirred by inappropriate clothing.

But I've never, ever heard of any negative cultural attitudes towards beards. As long as the beard is well kept, I've never heard of anyone being looked down on, or thought badly of. I've never heard that the skin of a man's face is supposed to be shown to the world and not covered by hair.

Styles and trends come and go, and beards seem to be in less fashion these days than in times past, but this is true for many things and the Church seems able to not formulate policies based on such whims of culture.

If the Church had no policy on beards and you were to go to the Temple and saw one male officiator with a beard and one male officiator without, would you think any less or differently of the one with the beard? If not, what possible reason could there be for a Church policy on the issue?

[ERayR]

Can someone explain to me where an aversion to beards might have originated?

Have you seen the little bugs that hide in there?

[Mansquatch]

I was not allowed by a bishop to wear shorts to activities or ride with other minors when coming to the church building. Plus a coat was required for passing the sacrament. We asked to see where these were written and the policies were removed. (Except the coat)

[ElfLord]

Can someone explain to me where an aversion to beards might have originated?

Usually, when the Church issues a guideline on appearance, its meaning is obvious from the culture at large.

It seems to have originated with David O McKay. All the prophets before him but 2 (Joseph Smith and John Taylor) had beards.

[frankenstein]

I was not allowed by a bishop to wear shorts to activities or ride with other minors when coming to the church building. Plus a coat was required for passing the sacrament. We asked to see where these were written and the policies were removed. (Except the coat)

good for you all.

as for the riding with minors, were/are you scout leader?

[Mansquatch]

good for you all.

as for the riding with minors, were/are you scout leader?

Oops, clarification needed. This all occurred when I was a minor. The youth were not allowed to ride to the church with each other.