LifeOnaPlate Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 "I know not, save the Lord commanded it." Moses 5:5"whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." D&C 1:38So let's say your Bishop tells you to go and drown the first 50 dogs you can find. Do you answer with Moses 5:5?
LifeOnaPlate Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Everyone here seems to think that facial hair is a dichotomy between clean shaven and beautifully kept beard. In case you're not aware (which I doubt), there's a gulf of ugliness, prickles and unkempt looks in between! I don't think that the "rule" of staying cleanly shaved is a "random" whim by some control freaks in leadership positions, but that it has the merit of keeping male members looking clean. At least that's one of the merits. The disadvantages, apart from feeling controlled, are... not being able to hide a cleft palate perhaps, or not being able to hide some other scar or tattoo??People get bad haircuts too. We need to take care of that lest too many members don't look clean enough for your subjective standard.
nicolasconnault Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 People get bad haircuts too. We need to take care of that lest too many members don't look clean enough for your subjective standard.I was only pointing out that there are some valid reasons for requiring missionaries to be clean-shaven. I'm not saying there are no valid reasons against it, but the absence of valid reasons for it isn't one (if that makes any sense).Besides, I don't know what you mean by my "subjective standard". The only standard I have, I apply to myself only. Isn't that fair enough?
LifeOnaPlate Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 I was only pointing out that there are some valid reasons for requiring missionaries to be clean-shaven. I'm not saying there are no valid reasons against it, but the absence of valid reasons for it isn't one (if that makes any sense).I don't have a problem with requiring the male missionaries to be clean shaven either, so we're agreed there. But you didn't say missionaries, you said "male members."
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 So let's say your Bishop tells you to go and drown the first 50 dogs you can find. Do you answer with Moses 5:5?drowning 50 dogs = wearing a white shirt. Sweet!!
LifeOnaPlate Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 drowning 50 dogs = wearing a white shirt. Sweet!!I thought we were talking about the principle of obedience.
nicolasconnault Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 I thought we were talking about the principle of obedience.yes, and slippery slopes
BookofMormonLuvr Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Would you respond the same way if your priesthood leader asked you to give up chocolate? Sugar? Refined flour?What about cosmetics? How would you feel if women in your ward were denied callings/recommends if they came to church wearing mascara or lipstick? Is this also just a good opportunity for learning humility?How about this? The women are instructed that they can't shave their legs or armpits in order to receive callings. How would they react to that edict?
DH Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 One could argue that beards make men look more authoritative, and that therefore bishops should be required to have beards...
bluebell Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 How about this? The women are instructed that they can't shave their legs or armpits in order to receive callings. How would they react to that edict?I would NOT react well. I enjoy having smooth legs. Hair is itchy.
nicolasconnault Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 How about this? The women are instructed that they can't shave their legs or armpits in order to receive callings. How would they react to that edict?Give me one good reason why this might be enforced.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Give me one good reason why this might be enforced.The same "good" reason for no facial hair on men?
BookofMormonLuvr Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 I would NOT react well. I enjoy having smooth legs. Hair is itchy.According to another poster you should just do it, it would help you learn humility.
nicolasconnault Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 The same "good" reason for no facial hair on men?I already wrote about possible good reason for no facial hair. Are you intentionally ignoring them? They don't work for leg and armpit hair, unless you have some sort of twisted mind
Zakuska Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Everyone here seems to think that facial hair is a dichotomy between clean shaven and beautifully kept beard. In case you're not aware (which I doubt), there's a gulf of ugliness, prickles and unkempt looks in between! I don't think that the "rule" of staying cleanly shaved is a "random" whim by some control freaks in leadership positions, but that it has the merit of keeping male members looking clean. At least that's one of the merits. The disadvantages, apart from feeling controlled, are... not being able to hide a cleft palate perhaps, or not being able to hide some other scar or tattoo??I don't see why everyone is so worried about physical appearances...Acts 1012 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.And speaking of clean.How more clean can you get!?
rpn Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 From "For the Strength of Youth" https://beta.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth/standards/dress-and-appearance?locale=engAll should avoid extremes in clothing, appearance, and hairstyle. Always be neat and clean and avoid being sloppy or inappropriately casual in dress, grooming, and manners. Ask yourself,
BookofMormonLuvr Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Since when does conformity to one standard of dress/facial grooming determine a person's spiritual standing with the Lord? We are each individual souls, with our own likes, dislikes, tastes, pet peeves, talents, and faults. Trying to make everyone fit into one mold is NOT the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
LeSellers Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Can someone explain to me where an aversion to beards might have originated?WWI. David O. McKay was a young man in the late 'teens of the XX. The Army had, until WWI, allowed warriors to wear any facial hair they wanted (Generals Custer, Burnsides
nicolasconnault Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Since when does conformity to one standard of dress/facial grooming determine a person's spiritual standing with the Lord? We are each individual souls, with our own likes, dislikes, tastes, pet peeves, talents, and faults. Trying to make everyone fit into one mold is NOT the Gospel of Jesus Christ.Neither is finding fault with your leaders on petty matters. Facial hair: BIG DEAL!
Katzpur Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 I'm just tossing my ideas out, not really arguing for one thing or the other...Missionaries are full-time. Other callings (like Elders quorum president) are "part-time" so to speak. I still have my job, family, etc. What if having facial hair would help me in my career? As a teacher, I could argue that having facial hair makes me more respectable and my students are more likely to comply with my requests... (this is just way out there, but it's just an example for argument's sake). Or what if having facial hair makes me more desirable to my wife? I, after all, have a commitment to her and my body is not my own but her's too (if 1 Corinthians is to be believed).My husband has had a full beard for most of the 40 years we've been married. It would be completely gray now, except that he colors it black (he's Hispanic). Since he has virtually no wrinkles at all, it makes him look closer to 50 years old than the 68 years old he actually is. I absolutely love his beard. He looks much better with it than without it.The idea that he can't have his beard and serve in certain callings irritates me to no end. He was not permitted to serve as a part-time (8 hours per week) church service (not proselytizing) missionary on Temple Square without shaving his beard. I told him, "No way!" This was actually several years ago. On the other hand, he and I just completed a 2-year calling as part of the Church's Hispanic Initiative program. During that period of time, we attended a Spanish-speaking branch and went out with the full-time missionaries on visits to prospective converts. He wore his beard during the entire two years and never did anyone even mention it. Immediately after being released, we heard that the Church was once again looking for local couples to serve for one 8-hour period a week on Temple Square. Thinking that the rules might have changed, I inquired into whether my husband could serve without shaving his beard. This time I was told that beards were allowed only if their purpose was to cover a scar or some facial disfigurement. I thought about asking how a visitor to Temple Square could possibly be expected to know the difference, but stepped out of character and thought better of it.The whole issue is ridiculous. I'm not going to hold my breath, but I do hope I live to see the day when this nonsense is discontinued and men like my husband will be treated like adults instead of adolescents.
LDSToronto Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 What about handle-bar mustachios? Are they allowed? Cuz if not, I'm screwed...I just bought a years supply of mustache wax.H.
Katzpur Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 There is the faint possibility that someone out there in the Church leadership may know something that you don't.Or that they may know something the Savior didn't. Church leaders are human beings, you know. It's not as if they couldn't possibly be wrong about something. Disagreeing with them over matters of policy is not the same thing at all as disagreeing with them over doctrinal matters.
Nathair/|\ Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 What about handle-bar mustachios? Are they allowed? Cuz if not, I'm screwed...I just bought a years supply of mustache wax.H.As long as you twirl it while cackling madly.
sunstoned Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 My husband has had a full beard for most of the 40 years we've been married. It would be completely gray now, except that he colors it black (he's Hispanic). Since he has virtually no wrinkles at all, it makes him look closer to 50 years old than the 68 years old he actually is. I absolutely love his beard. He looks much better with it than without it.The idea that he can't have his beard and serve in certain callings irritates me to no end. He was not permitted to serve as a part-time (8 hours per week) church service (not proselytizing) missionary on Temple Square without shaving his beard. I told him, "No way!" This was actually several years ago. On the other hand, he and I just completed a 2-year calling as part of the Church's Hispanic Initiative program. During that period of time, we attended a Spanish-speaking branch and went out with the full-time missionaries on visits to prospective converts. He wore his beard during the entire two years and never did anyone even mention it. Immediately after being released, we heard that the Church was once again looking for local couples to serve for one 8-hour period a week on Temple Square. Thinking that the rules might have changed, I inquired into whether my husband could serve without shaving his beard. This time I was told that beards were allowed only if their purpose was to cover a scar or some facial disfigurement. I thought about asking how a visitor to Temple Square could possibly be expected to know the difference, but stepped out of character and thought better of it.The whole issue is ridiculous. I'm not going to hold my breath, but I do hope I live to see the day when this nonsense is discontinued and men like my husband will be treated like adults instead of adolescents.The church
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