Dallin Oaks

[Hoops22]

Well if your family is not a high pointer family, then family home evening is nessacary practice time to get it into shape..

Not sure what this means. But you expect a 10 year old to get his family in shape? I can only assume you wrote this "tongue in cheek."

[jadams_4242]

Back in the old days, when I was a kid (so you know it's really the old days) we didn't need organized sports. Kids were outside all the time playing their own games. Today's organized sports take away the spontaneity, can cost a lot of money and cause a lot of stress, especially when parents have more than one child to get to practices and games. I know: been there, done that. I frankly think we were better off doing our own thing and doing things with families and friends and the neighborhood instead of signing up, paying up and having to play on a schedule.

That is true of a lot of sports anymore. i see fathers screaming so loud at b-ball games and football games the child athlete flatly gets embarresed, It really is a job for the sponsers to work hard at keeping things in the "true" spirit of good sportsmanship.

[Hoops22]

The Gospel is directed at those trying to succeed. If a family is dysfunctional and no one wants to change it we have nothing to offer them anyways. Why are they listening to conference?

And, yet, you (lds) make this recommendation regardless. These kinds of blanket generalizations are not worth the paper they're printed on. Or, in this case, the air it took to disseminate.

And the only thing you have to offer is: "spend more family time and if not, too bad." Silly. You don't really mean that do you?

That is true of a lot of sports anymore. i see fathers screaming so loud at b-ball games and football games the child athlete flatly gets embarresed, It really is a job for the sponsers to work hard at keeping things in the "true" spirit of good sportsmanship.

Kumbaya, kumbaya.

[The Nehor]

And, yet, you (lds) make this recommendation regardless. These kinds of blanket generalizations are not worth the paper they're printed on. Or, in this case, the air it took to disseminate.

And the only thing you have to offer is: "spend more family time and if not, too bad." Silly. You don't really mean that do you?

Kumbaya, kumbaya.

The counsel is for anyone who wants it. Are you suggesting that an abusive parent would take this counsel and use it to justify having their child around more as a punching bag?

This would be like putting a proviso on the command to tend to your neighbor that you shouldn't do it if you have a sword and are intending to run him through while helping him. It shouldn't have to be said.

[jadams_4242]

And, yet, you (lds) make this recommendation regardless. These kinds of blanket generalizations are not worth the paper they're printed on. Or, in this case, the air it took to disseminate.

And the only thing you have to offer is: "spend more family time and if not, too bad." Silly. You don't really mean that do you?

Kumbaya, kumbaya.

If family time includes sincere daily prayer guidance from worthy parents in regards to all the other things that we are comanded to do, then it all works out very well, but till we work at it and make these things become way of life for every family member then it is useless to simply hold a gathering to say Yes we had family home evening..

[Hoops22]

The counsel is for anyone who wants it. Are you suggesting that an abusive parent would take this counsel and use it to justify having their child around more as a punching bag?

This would be like putting a proviso on the command to tend to your neighbor that you shouldn't do it if you have a sword and are intending to run him through while helping him. It shouldn't have to be said.

No, I'm suggesting that those that don't are just "too bad, so sad." The reasoning you are espousing goes like this: Your family is so bad because you don't have family time. But if the family is so bad they won't have family time. Nope. Doesn't work. I'd much rather have the kid in organized sports than anything else.

Quite often, organized sports is the very vehicle that can save these kids. I've seen it many, many, many times.

If family time includes sincere daily prayer guidance from worthy parents

Nonsense. I don't even know what these things are. Do you? And do you know if for your neighbor as well?

[Bond...James Bond]

I don't see how trying to ensure the Monday night is open for family activities -- not necessarily "church stuff" in the oppressive sense that you imagine it -- is a bad thing, nor how it forbids people from doing whatever they want on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

I think the church has called dibs on Sunday too.....but why even have to specifically set aside any night for family home evening. When I was growing up (not many years ago) most nights were family home evening in some form or another. But we never made a production out of it by having our church license it and sell it on a lunch box as Family Home Evening.

(I'm being sarcastic for those of you who think I think the church would license a Family Home Evening lunch box or any other Family Home Evening apparel or accessories)

It seems that some critics of Mormonism are rather desperate for things to complain about.

Me specifically? Or some other critics of Mormonism?

[Bond...James Bond]

In Time-release programs Seminary requires no more time than anyone else and in early-morning areas it uses up time that is generally not already scheduled.

Some of us use that early hour for this thing called "sleep".

Adult's schedules depend on their calling and go from Sunday Meetings and that's it up to a Bishop or Stake President's schedule. Even there the admonition from the Brethren lately to people in those callings is to spend more time at home.

Then why not just cancel the callings and send people home to their families? They can give lip service to being at home with family but why not put some action behind it and cancel extra (in my more cynical moments I would be thinking: useless) callings?

[The Nehor]

No, I'm suggesting that those that don't are just "too bad, so sad." The reasoning you are espousing goes like this: Your family is so bad because you don't have family time. But if the family is so bad they won't have family time. Nope. Doesn't work. I'd much rather have the kid in organized sports than anything else.

Quite often, organized sports is the very vehicle that can save these kids. I've seen it many, many, many times.

Then if the family is bad then get the kid into organized sports. Since the counsel was directed to parents and dysfunctional parents tend to not listen to Conference I don't see how this will affect that kid. "Honor thy father and thy mother" might be more dangerous counsel.

[BCSpace]

Team sports are in the same "wasting time" category as video games?

Well, since I coach or assistant coach my sons' and daughters' soccer teams, I claim that I am not wasting any time at all in that respect.

[Bond...James Bond]

Well, since I coach or assistant coach my sons' and daughters' soccer teams, I claim that I am not wasting any time at all in that respect.

Preach it BCDawg!

[Daniel Peterson]

I think the church has called dibs on Sunday too.....

Sorry. We didn't invent the concept of the Sabbath. I'd like to surrender the practice in order to please you, I really would, but I just can't see my way clear to do it.

but why even have to specifically set aside any night for family home evening. When I was growing up (not many years ago) most nights were family home evening in some form or another. But we never made a production out of it by having our church license it and sell it on a lunch box as Family Home Evening.

Lucky you.

Many American kids, at least, aren't so fortunate. There have been a number of studies indicating that families today spend less and less time together -- even in cases where they think they spend a lot of time, they actually spend considerably less than they estimate.

I'm still not sure how it injures anybody to have the Church encourage keeping Monday night free from other activities so that it can be devoted to family activities. Does this hurt you? Does it offend you? How? Why should you even care?

Me specifically? Or some other critics of Mormonism?

You specifically. But, of course, you're not alone.

I simply don't understand why this or any other aspect of Mormonism bothers you. I myself spend precisely zero minutes in any given week or month waxing indignant or even worrying about the religious beliefs or practices of people in my community. The existence of Catholicism doesn't trouble me in the slightest. Neither Saturday evening mass nor weekend bingo bothers me. Do they believe in praying the rosary? Yes, and I'm entirely serene nonetheless. And I can say the same thing about Methodism, Presbyterianism, Quakerism, Judaism, Sikhism, and a whole host of other religious faiths. If the Baptists want to have a summer Bible school for their kids, that's perfectly fine with me. If the Church of Christ believes in the Trinity, I still sleep well. If the Jews want to send their kids to a Hebrew school, I'm okay with that. If the Episcopalians want to hold a weekend retreat, my blood pressure doesn't go up, I don't have heartburn, and I don't feel any need to criticize them on a message board or anywhere else.

[Daniel Peterson]

Then why not just cancel the callings and send people home to their families? They can give lip service to being at home with family but why not put some action behind it and cancel extra (in my more cynical moments I would be thinking: useless) callings?

You think that the callings are useless. We don't. It's our faith, and it's our church. That it doesn't meet with your approval is a matter of complete indifference -- to me, at least.

I'm not going to give any specifics of the things that I've been doing in relation to my own personal calling over the past 30 hours or so, because I don't want to come even close to violating confidences. But I can promise you that I've been able to do a number of things that provide real, serious, substantial help to people. Yes, I could refuse to help. I would have more time for my own interests if I did. But I'm not going to. Not even at the risk of disappointing you.

[why me]

Well, actually, the Church IS cutting down on its over-scheduling.

We used to have Primary on a weekday afternoon (when I was that age). Now it is only on Sunday. We used to have meetings morning, noon, and night on Sunday. Now we have it in a concise three-hour block.

These (and other changes) were all designed to give families more time to be together. Bro. Oaks is just proceeding farther down the same theme.

Beowulf

They are actually designed to give families more time together in a more satanic world. In the past, time was not such a desparate commodity. But today, time has become a valued commodity as work, hobbies, and mental fatigue become rampant. We live in a hurried world that wishes to take our leisure time away and place it in a category of individual efficeincy and productivity.

The church is only trying to defend itself from satan's plan of destroying family life. Unfortunately, it seems to be losing out. A family has become a group of individuals at times living under one roof but who seek individual fulfillment at one another's expense.

[why me]

Then why not just cancel the callings and send people home to their families? They can give lip service to being at home with family but why not put some action behind it and cancel extra (in my more cynical moments I would be thinking: useless) callings?

I don't think that it is the church's fault that people have less time now. It is however our fault for allowing life to slip away from us. Of course, the church can become a Sunday church of one meeting, no callings, a paid clergy etc. But I don't believe that people would spend the extra time doing 'family' things. Actually, they would begin to spend their time in their own hobbies and endeavors. Life would still be hectic for families. The economic system seems to draw us away from family life and into the realm of productivity.

Any socio-economic system that seeks to destroy the family from within is from Satan. Should the lds church cozy up to satan?

[BCSpace]

We used to have Primary on a weekday afternoon (when I was that age).

I keep thinking that was a good thing. Especially because of what I remember as 'pre-opening exercises'. It gave us all a chance to socially interact with those of our own faith living in the Bible Belt as we did. Many friendships and associations were created of the type that cannot be had merely by sitting next to someone during a lesson.

[Thinking]

I simply don't understand why this or any other aspect of Mormonism bothers you. I myself spend precisely zero minutes in any given week or month waxing indignant or even worrying about the religious beliefs or practices of people in my community. The existence of Catholicism doesn't trouble me in the slightest. Neither Saturday evening mass nor weekend bingo bothers me. Do they believe in praying the rosary? Yes, and I'm entirely serene nonetheless. And I can say the same thing about Methodism, Presbyterianism, Quakerism, Judaism, Sikhism, and a whole host of other religious faiths. If the Baptists want to have a summer Bible school for their kids, that's perfectly fine with me. If the Church of Christ believes in the Trinity, I still sleep well. If the Jews want to send their kids to a Hebrew school, I'm okay with that. If the Episcopalians want to hold a weekend retreat, my blood pressure doesn't go up, I don't have heartburn, and I don't feel any need to criticize them on a message board or anywhere else.

I can only speak for myself, but I suspect that many of the critics on this board feel as I do. I belong to a very TBM family, as does my wife. My wife is still very active as are my kids, although my son has expressed some doubts on occasion. Because mormonism is still very much a part of my life, it affects me. What the leaders say at GC affects me because my family listens. This board allows for discussion which could not happen in Sunday School or Priesthood.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Wow, I guess people can get what they want to get out of talks.

[noel00]

I have actually found the Internet has increased my familiy activities. Listen to Speaking of Faith with a program on Spiritiality and Gardening in an interview with Vigen Guroian on The Fragance of God has spurred me to become more interested in the garden. Prior to this my roll was just digging a hole here and there and cutting some high branches. My wife cannot believe her eyes. Her husband interested in gardening? Now I have moved on her turf

[solomarineris]

Team sports are a waste of time, especially Football.

I totally agree, what is more important?

[amo]

"...vigorously act to increase family togetherness and one-on-one time..." is the KEY to properly understand the principle being taught here.

Team sports are "good", but they remain that way if they interfere with the KEY principle underlined by Elder D. Oaks.

Now, speaking of freeing Monday evenings to allow the above to happen, unfortunately our ward has been pushing lately to open the chapel, about twice a month or so, in order to have a "Ward-FHE" organized by our beloved missionaries. Every1 is "invited" to attend... Now, that's what I call "grasping the concept" & leading by the "spirit"...!

Amo

[solomarineris]

It seems that some critics of Mormonism are rather desperate for things to complain about.

This is not the case at all....

Most of the complaints are coming from the members themselves. This is not a in-active Mormon issue.

Sometimes it is wise to go with the flow and re-define what FHE means. Heck, how many solid, traditional practices were modified, redefined or ditched alltogether?

If mom-dad come home and there's a little daylight left, why not take a hike to one of the glorious Wasatch Canyons? Leave the Ipods home, there you have plenty opportunity to talk....

[Teancum]

Team sports are a waste of time, especially Football.

In your opinion. My 12 year old daughter recently joined her middle school swim team. SHe is doing well. But more important is she has built confidence, camaraderie, is making good friends and is exercising. She actually goes to bed without a hassle.

I believe school sports activities should be balanced out with everything else. We have always limited our kids to one sporting activity at a time, one musical activity and also encouraged church activity as well.

[Teancum]

What is conflicting to me is the Church that wants us to spend more time with family. Yet the Church demands A LOT of time. We have many meetings, many activities, callings that take much time. Then with what time we have the Church wants to tell us what to do with that too.

Now I do think some families WAY over do it with sports. My brother has his kids in every imaginabel sport there is and they run from one to another all year long. He coached a lot of it. But hey, if it works for them....I personally would not want to do it.

The other thing that amazes me is so often when I hear a GA talk they say "One night when I was getting home late from a Church assignment or meeting, or one evening as I as I stopped home on my way to a Church assignment.....

It is frustrating. Spend time with family but serve, serve serve in the Church. How many of you like me I am sure have spent thousand upon thousands of hours in Church service. Add that to a demanding job and what time is left for family? Not a lot and the Church takes much of it. So what a church leader tells us that we should not be doing this, that or the other thing with our family time sometimes I just want to see would ya leave us alone already and get off it!! I know my wife found Elder Oaks comments frustrating and she hardly even complains about any thing in the Church. She is VERY faithful.

[Daniel Peterson]

I can only speak for myself, but I suspect that many of the critics on this board feel as I do. I belong to a very TBM family, as does my wife. My wife is still very active as are my kids, although my son has expressed some doubts on occasion. Because mormonism is still very much a part of my life, it affects me. What the leaders say at GC affects me because my family listens. This board allows for discussion which could not happen in Sunday School or Priesthood.

I can understand that, and I understand you.

"Bond . . . James Bond," however, has (if I'm not mistaken) never been a member of the Church. I genuinely don't understand the (for some) apparently compulsive need to mock and criticize a religion with which one has never had a substantial connection. What Catholics do and believe, what Methodists and Sikhs and the Amish do and believe, is interesting to me, but I feel absolutely no urge to participate on message boards criticizing them or to wax indignant over the pastoral counsel that their clergy gives.