Mormons not Christian (according to new military list)

[bluebell]

13 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Yea I have seen that before too. Usually it was people doing simultaneous service ie military, leave of absence, mission, come back to military usually reservists and guard, not active duty. In fact that is all of the cases I have seen before. Typically it is where the guy had to wait till he was 19 to serve a mission so went to boot camp while he was 18. With the age change I bet that activity has tapered off quite a bit. Not the same as blowing off a mission completely.

I'm in Gilbert az and have never seen that here other than missionary plaques. In fact in the nearly ten years I have been in this ward (im in the stake canter when i did attend) we have had zero enlistees into the military other than one girl who is a lesbian...thats what her parent who is a friend of ours said. 

Anyway not here to debate whether the church approves of ditching a mission or not. We all know the church absolutely does not approve. Is the stake pres where you are at smart for allowing them to put pictures up of military members who refuse to serve a mission?? Sure I suppose. Not sure what good it does if the military member isnt around to see it, but at least they probably know it is there and that we don't completely hate you for being a disobedient soul. Of course they can also go on a mission and have like what?? a 40-50% chance of leaving the church anyway... 

Yea the stake im in now, others I have been in and the one I grew up in def would never do that. In my family wards I was in while on active duty they didn't do that. Maybe with new stake pres they would. I suppose we'd have to get kids to join up first so we can find out. Prob have to wait a while around here for that.

They were all active serving members in the cases I’m aware of. I think the plaques serve the same purpose as the missionary ones.

In these same wards we would send Christmas cards to the service members as well as the missionaries.  The plaques helped us remember everyone who was serving.

 

 

 

[smac97]

Looks like Sen. Lee and Rep. Curtis were heard on this (and others) :

Pentagon revises religious classifications amid backlash from LDS Church

Quote

WASHINGTON – The Pentagon has revamped a list of religious faiths and traditions it uses to provide services to military members after Mormon Republican lawmakers blasted the agency for not classifying the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as Christian.

In a June 8 statement, the agency said the recent update to its categorization of religious affiliations "included redundant and unnecessary labeling." The list, confirmed by the Pentagon last week, reduced the number of recognized faith codes from more than 200 to 30. Of the religions included, 21 were labeled "Christian." The LDS Church was put in a separate category.

Utah Sens. Mike Lee and John Curtis and Rep. Mike Kennedy, all of whom are Mormon, excoriated the move on social media, calling it deeply offensive.

"The Pentagon’s decision to list the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints apart from other Christian faiths is wrong and needs to be corrected," Kennedy wrote in a June 7 post.

Lee said in a June 8 social media post that he spoke with President Donald Trump about concerns with the characterization. Hours after Lee's post, the Pentagon walked back its original decision, saying the "mistake has been fixed."

However, it is not labeling the LDS Church as "Christian." Instead, the agency is removing the "Christian" labeling from other religions. The updated list of recognized faiths also removed "Christian - Other."

Hmm.  Perhaps that is the better way, as the State ceases to be seen as an arbiter of which groups are "Christian" and which are not.

Quote

"The goal of this effort is to simplify a previously out-of-control 'belief' coding system that had ballooned to over 200 codes," the Pentagon said in the statement.

Members of the LDS Church affirm they are Christian. However, according to the church’s website, some other Christian denominations, including evangelical groups, do not see the LDS Church as Christian and have described it as a cult.

Former Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, struggled during his 2008 and 2012 presidential runs to court evangelical Christians skeptical of his Mormon faith. One 2012 poll found that 23% of White evangelical voters were uncomfortable with Romney’s religion.

Pentagon chief Pete Hegseth’s church, the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches, is among those that view the LDS Church as non-Christian.

I'd like more than innuendo before concluding that this issue arose because of Pete Hegseth's religious affiliation.

Quote

Pentagon spokesman Sean Parnell in his original statement said the changes were "not designed to make any claims on the legitimacy of any faith or religious belief," or "provide a list of 'officially approved.'" He said the Pentagon's reduction of religious affiliations codes aimed at helping military chaplains "quickly look at the religious composition of their units" and determine how best to allocate resources.

Interesting.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

Deseret News: 

Pentagon rethinks policy that omitted Latter-day Saints as Christian. Here’s how Utah lawmakers got involved

Quote

The Pentagon released on Monday an updated version of its new policy classifying religious affiliation categories for service members, removing the “Christian” label and instead just listing all faith groups as their own categories.

The change comes after the Defense Department announced a change in the agency’s faith coding system, reducing the number of religious affiliation categories from over 200 down to just 31.

In its initial announcement, the Pentagon listed 21 of the religions as being under the “Christian” umbrella — but it left out The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, prompting reaction from members of the faith, including lawmakers.

Several Latter-day Saint lawmakers, including Sens. Mike Lee and John Curtis of Utah, and Sen. Mike Crapo of Idaho, protested the categorization and asked for it to be changed.

The Pentagon called the labeling a “mistake” that has now been fixed.

“In order to clarify the work of chaplains, and simplify the work of commanders, the Pentagon has consolidated and simplified the list to roughly thirty codes — using the previously used labels for faiths,” the department wrote. “The Pentagon’s job is not to adjudicate theological debates, but instead to ensure sincerely-held faith is respected and encouraged in our ranks.”

This seems better.

Quote

How Utah’s lawmakers helped secure the change

Members of Utah’s congressional delegation lobbied the Trump administration for the change, releasing statements over the weekend that the omission of Latter-day Saints as Christians was incorrect.

Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, said he spoke with President Donald Trump directly about the original policy update, which the Utah senator has publicly decried in more than two dozen social media posts and reshares over the weekend. While Lee did not share details of the conversation, he said he was “thrilled about where this is heading,” a change from what he was saying over the weekend.

“Secretary (Pete) Hegseth: Tear. Down. That. Wall,” Lee said in one video, directly referencing the defense secretary. “This is not cool. Get rid of it, get rid of it now. Thank you.”

Lee later thanked Hegseth in a separate social media post for updating the policy.

Sen. Curtis engaged with Pentagon

Sen. John Curtis, R-Utah, engaged in “active conversations” with the Pentagon about changing the designation, sources familiar with those interactions told the Deseret News. Curtis’ office spoke directly with Defense Department officials on Monday, just hours before the update was issued.

“Thank you to (Hegseth) for listening to our concerns, engaging thoughtfully and respectfully with my office on this issue, and for delivering a swift correction,” Curtis wrote in a statement.

Rep. Mike Kennedy, R-Utah, also reached out to the DOD directly “to request clarification and correction regarding the omission of the LDS Church from the Christian denomination category,” his office told the Deseret News. Kennedy responded to the policy change over the weekend, calling it “wrong” and that it “needs to be corrected.”

“No one needs to wonder where members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints stand. We stand with Christ. We are Christians,” Kennedy said. “On that ground, and on the much larger ground of shared faith, values, and purpose, Latter-day Saints stand alongside many Christians of every tradition in following the teachings of Christ. We only ask to be accurately portrayed.”

Rep. Blake Moore told the Deseret News he had engaged with other members of the delegation as well as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to encourage the Pentagon to make the change — and expressed gratitude it was made.

“Christians are followers of Christ. Latter-day Saints are followers of Christ. Our members are unequivocally Christian,” Moore said in a statement on Sunday before the change. “I hope not listing my faith as Christian is a simple omission.”

I prefer to have the State stay out of such delineations.  I am gratified that the matter has been resolved.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Stargazer]

On 6/6/2026 at 11:06 PM, Buckeye said:

Count me not surprised. But I think our focus on being excluded from the “Christian Club” misses the real intent here. Excluding us is a nice cherry on top. The cake is building an argument that the US is a Christian Nation. 

It isn't? Au contraire, mon amis. With 65% Christian, the US is a Christian nation, just like Thailand is a Buddhist nation, and Egypt is a Muslim nation.  

From NIH "Demographic and Military Service Characteristics of Military Families":

"More recent DoD administrative data focused on active duty personnel show that as of January 2019, approximately 70 percent were recorded as Christian (about 32% no denomination, 20% Catholic, 18% Protestant, 1% Mormon), 2 percent as Atheist or Agnostic, 1 percent as affiliated with an Eastern religion, 0.4 percent each as Jewish or Muslim, and the remainder (about 24%) were reported as 'other/unclassified/unknown'"

 

On 6/6/2026 at 11:06 PM, Buckeye said:

Step 1 - arbitrarily cut the total count of recognized faiths to 31

Step 2 - add the label “Christian” to a majority (21) of the faiths.

Step 3 - repeatedly publish the list, along with the percentage of service members in the Christian conglomeration, to advocate for Christian Nationalism. 

I've found that the term "Christian Nationalism" to be pretty much a dog-whistle for anti-Christian. 

And what is this nonsense about "repeatedly publish the list"? As far as I can tell, they published the list once. The previous list, that included over 200 items, was also only published once. The whole purpose of the list is to give the military a better idea of how to support its members' religious preferences. How does including a religion that has virtually no adherents in the military help the military support such adherents? 

The evil Pete Hegseth said the following about all this: "The previous system had ballooned to well over 200 faith codes. … It was impractical and unusable, and many codes were never used at all," Hegseth said in March, adding that 82% of members who identify as religious use only six of the codes.

In my opinion the previous list was so extensive because the touchy-feely types were desperately trying to avoid offending anyone.

[MiserereNobis]

5 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

t isn't? Au contraire, mon amis. With 65% Christian, the US is a Christian nation, just like Thailand is a Buddhist nation, and Egypt is a Muslim nation

Those countries are explicitly Buddhist and Muslim. Egypt declares Islam the state religion. Thailand’s government is very much involved in Theravadan Buddhism. It’s not the number of adherents, but the relationship of the State to the religion. 

[Buckeye]

13 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

It isn't? Au contraire, mon amis. With 65% Christian, the US is a Christian nation, just like Thailand is a Buddhist nation, and Egypt is a Muslim nation.  

From NIH "Demographic and Military Service Characteristics of Military Families":

"More recent DoD administrative data focused on active duty personnel show that as of January 2019, approximately 70 percent were recorded as Christian (about 32% no denomination, 20% Catholic, 18% Protestant, 1% Mormon), 2 percent as Atheist or Agnostic, 1 percent as affiliated with an Eastern religion, 0.4 percent each as Jewish or Muslim, and the remainder (about 24%) were reported as 'other/unclassified/unknown'"

 

I've found that the term "Christian Nationalism" to be pretty much a dog-whistle for anti-Christian. 

And what is this nonsense about "repeatedly publish the list"? As far as I can tell, they published the list once. The previous list, that included over 200 items, was also only published once. The whole purpose of the list is to give the military a better idea of how to support its members' religious preferences. How does including a religion that has virtually no adherents in the military help the military support such adherents? 

The evil Pete Hegseth said the following about all this: "The previous system had ballooned to well over 200 faith codes. … It was impractical and unusable, and many codes were never used at all," Hegseth said in March, adding that 82% of members who identify as religious use only six of the codes.

In my opinion the previous list was so extensive because the touchy-feely types were desperately trying to avoid offending anyone.

Christian Nationalism isn’t about acknowledging that a majority of the population identifies as Christian. That is accurate as you note, though maybe not for long. CN is about placing a specific brand of Christianity above other faiths and even creating a state religion. It’s contrary to the bedrock principles of our democracy and would surely turn out poorly for my faith. Hence the LDS church actively supports not only religious freedom but religious pluralism. 
 

FWIW, I’m very pro Christ. I served a mission to teach people about him. All my children have done so too. But our message is an invitation. Christ does not compel. 

Edited 17 hours ago by Buckeye

[3DOP]

5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Those countries are explicitly Buddhist and Muslim. Egypt declares Islam the state religion. Thailand’s government is very much involved in Theravadan Buddhism. It’s not the number of adherents, but the relationship of the State to the religion. 

I am listening. I would regret to think you are missing something. 

Who here has ever heard of the Theravadan Buddhism? Granted that east is east and west is west, it seems like it might be okay to identify the US as a Christian nation, as a majority of the population or even among members of the US military. 

But the United States, as lawfully constituted now, and for a long time, cannot officially recognize anything as a state religion. Perhaps Thailand can? I dunno.

Anyway my friend, just let's shake things up and be on different sides in love! Bash me...and me back at you. Let them see how we Catholics can think each other are stupid, but still ❤️ each other.

Disclaimer: In my cups on the deck.

[Notatbm]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

This isn’t true. Catholics and Protestants aren’t interchangeable when it comes to sacraments and authority. We generally view their sacraments as invalid and they are generally barred from ours. 

ok... like i said its a guess. Thanks for clearing that up

[Notatbm]

43 minutes ago, bluebell said:

They were all active serving members in the cases I’m aware of. I think the plaques serve the same purpose as the missionary ones.

In these same wards we would send Christmas cards to the service members as well as the missionaries.  The plaques helped us remember everyone who was serving.

 

 

 

So these are all people who chose to ditch a mission and go military? Hmm ok good for them and I'm glad they are celebrated I suppose. I'm frankly suprised a stake would honor people who chose to disobey the lord and shirk their priesthood duty. Yea I don't see it happening here but hey you never know.

[Stargazer]

Nevermind. Enough has been said about this.

Edited 16 hours ago by Stargazer

[Notatbm]

oh boy what a relief the list was fixed....now we can fix bayonets and get them to fix the big "D" problem. I swear does anyone care about the style guide??

[Buckeye]

18 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

oh boy what a relief the list was fixed....now we can fix bayonets and get them to fix the big "D" problem. I swear does anyone care about the style guide??

Um, are you suggesting all democrats be murdered? If not, maybe clarify what  “D” you’re referencing. 

[Notatbm]

8 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

Um, are you suggesting all democrats be murdered? If not, maybe clarify what  “D” you’re referencing. 

Uhhh yea. Dont be a idiot. It is a figure of speech. 

Anyway in the name of the church...."day" is supposed to be a little d not a big D. To some it is a huge deal. Oddly enough the church uses both on its own website. 

[InCognitus]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

As a software developer I can tell you this is not how it works. In a relational database, an indexed code (e.g. "CJ") would be used in the service member's personnel record, and that code would point at a separate table containing the list of faith codes, as values. And a competent database designer would make the max length of the value column long enough to accommodate the longest expected value.

It is a waste of database space to write the full name of each faith in every single servicemember's record. And it violates important principles of database design.

As a database designer and software consultant myself, I understand this as well (about the separate index code for the "CJ").  And I also understand that the full name would not be assigned each servicemember's record number (just the index value or primary key).  I just think that it's possible that they made the max length value of the religious group name in the table of religious groups to be only 50 characters in size, thinking that it should work for most cases.  Normally they limit those sizes because they are thinking of how it has to fit on reports and other ways of presenting the information.  And in my database experience, a lot of text fields are limited to between 30 and 60 characters for names, company names, vendor names (etc.)  And there are always exceptions to the expectations, and in those situations you just have to get creative in how you abbreviate the name or you need to continue the name into an additional field (like the address 1 field or something like that).

I realize in today's world the application designers aren't as concerned about hard drive space and memory usage and efficiency as they used to be in the early days of computers, but some of the same thinking still persists, probably more for presentation (reporting) reasons than anything else.

Edited 16 hours ago by InCognitus

[Stargazer]

On 6/7/2026 at 7:08 AM, Notatbm said:

Not that I know anything but my 22 yrs experience in combat roles in the army taught me the Mormon church has less than zero cachet in the military. No one is gonna care if they are labeled as Christian’s or not. 
 

they won’t be caught dead at the grog bowl, but Jesus would. 

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8skqDSv/
 

 

When I went before my E-5 promotion board, one of the staff sergeants on the board voted against my promotion. He was the one who questioned whether I, as a Mormon, could perform in combat (I was an infantryman) because of my faith. I was unprepared for the question because I didn't think my religion was going to come into play, so I told him that it wouldn't be a problem at all. If I had thought it would come into play, then I would have researched to find the ten LDS members who had been awarded the Medal of Honor:

1. PVT Thomas C. Neibaur - WWI - USArmy 
2. CAPT Mervyn S. Bennion - WW2 - USN - Pearl Harbor, Captain of the USS West Virginia
3. PVT Nathan “Junior” Van Noy - WW2 - 
4. LTC Edward S. Michael - WW2 - USAAC
5. PFC Leonard C. Brostrom - WW2 - USArmy
6. PhM2 George E. Wahlen - WW2 - USN - Later joined the US Army and served in both Korea and Vietnam.
7. SGT David B. Bleak - Korea - USArmy
8. MAJ Bernard F. Fisher - Vietnam - USAF
9. CPL Larry L. Maxam - Vietnam - USMC
10. PFC Sammy L. Davis - Vietnam - USArmy - Footage of his award ceremony was used in the 1995 film “Forrest Gump,” with actor Tom Hanks’ head superimposed over that of Davis.

Of the ten, LTC Michael and PFC Davis joined the Church after their wartime service.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

It isn't? Au contraire, mon amis. With 65% Christian, the US is a Christian nation, just like Thailand is a Buddhist nation, and Egypt is a Muslim nation.  

From NIH "Demographic and Military Service Characteristics of Military Families":

"More recent DoD administrative data focused on active duty personnel show that as of January 2019, approximately 70 percent were recorded as Christian (about 32% no denomination, 20% Catholic, 18% Protestant, 1% Mormon), 2 percent as Atheist or Agnostic, 1 percent as affiliated with an Eastern religion, 0.4 percent each as Jewish or Muslim, and the remainder (about 24%) were reported as 'other/unclassified/unknown'"

No, it is not. The US is for religious pluralism. At least it used to be. The whole idea was to avoid the religious wars and conflicts that wrecked Europe with the Catholics fighting the Protestants. We seem determined to want to tear down Chesterton’s fence to see what will happen.

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

I've found that the term "Christian Nationalism" to be pretty much a dog-whistle for anti-Christian. 

And what is this nonsense about "repeatedly publish the list"? As far as I can tell, they published the list once. The previous list, that included over 200 items, was also only published once. The whole purpose of the list is to give the military a better idea of how to support its members' religious preferences. How does including a religion that has virtually no adherents in the military help the military support such adherents? 

The evil Pete Hegseth said the following about all this: "The previous system had ballooned to well over 200 faith codes. … It was impractical and unusable, and many codes were never used at all," Hegseth said in March, adding that 82% of members who identify as religious use only six of the codes.

In my opinion the previous list was so extensive because the touchy-feely types were desperately trying to avoid offending anyone.

You mean like the touchy-feely LDS when a lot of us cried over not being labeled as Christian. Or is it only “touchy-feely” when the other minority faiths want to be recognized?

It has been my experience that people who complain about snowflakes and people being too easily offended are generally just self-identifying as exactly what they are complaining about.

200 codes? So what? That is easily doable and can be maintained easily enough. Hegseth is just trying to give a more palatable explanation. That it is nonsensical and actually collects less data is overlooked for some reason.

[The Nehor]

Also again this is evidence that the Christian Nationalists (Pete Hegseth is one) do not think LDS are part of their cool kid’s club. It baffles me that so many members want the US to be labeled a Christian nation and privilege the Christian faith even after those advancing this agenda repeatedly indicate that they aren’t including any kind of Mormons in this privileged position. Has a “Jews for Hitler” vibe to it.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

In a couple of my previous wards that had quite a few young men serving, they would put a plaque up with their military picture, information, and favorite scripture and display them along with the other missionary plaques.  

Same with the wards I have been in for 30 years, can’t remember Kansas (pre1990).

[Stargazer]

On 6/7/2026 at 2:47 PM, Buckeye said:

He’s a follower of a Christian Nationalist evangelical pastor who teaches women she be excluded from the vote  

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20260506-hegseth-s-church-brings-its-christian-nationalism-to-washington

I'd be careful accepting everything an opponent of a church wants to say about that church. Does Hegseth himself believe that women should be excluded from the vote? And while I believe that to be an incorrect notion, even if he holds that view he can't do anything about it (except in his own home), and I don't think this alone affects his ability to do his job. Saying this, I'm not entirely pleased with everything he's doing as SecWar. But I do believe he's doing a necessary house-cleaning. The place had been turned into a DEI madhouse, IMHO.

According to Hegseth, he is a member of a church affiliated with the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches. This body teaches women shouldn't be in combat. Do you think that is incorrect? The point I'm making is that 

I do remember that President Obama was a long-time member of a church in Chicago, Trinity United Church of Christ, which he attended for about 16 years and was mentored by Pastor Jeremiah Wright. Do we hold Obama responsible for Wright's racist and anti-American sentiments that he expressed in his sermons and addresses? Were we worried that Obama would attempt to enact policies that conformed to Wright's sentiments? No, of course not. Same with Hegseth. If he believes things we consider incorrect, but he's not in a position (nor even perhaps would want) to enforce them, then we should give him the same grace.

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Notatbm said:

Usually it was people doing simultaneous service ie military, leave of absence, mission, come back to military usually reservists and guard, not active duty.

 My memory says most were young missionary age.

[Stargazer]

On 6/7/2026 at 4:09 PM, Navidad said:

I would encourage everyone in this discussion to read this page which explains the purpose of this new denomination. It is a fascinating mixture of Presbyterianism, Orthodox, Catholic, and anti-Fundamentalist teachings while espousing to be Evangelical.  In its doctrine it seems to be more Fundamentalist (the very thing it decries in the text of this page) than anything else. Fascinating. complex, and educational! 

The Story - Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches

Yes, I did read that. It's quite international, too -- even has associated churches in Poland! Some here are very suspicious of this body because the US Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, belongs to an associated church of this body.

[Stargazer]

On 6/7/2026 at 6:43 PM, Notatbm said:

I agree Mormons believe they are Christian’s..and I believe they are. Problem is that one has to convince others that Mormons are Christian. Mormon leaders are on record throughout church history being dishonest so why should anyone believe what they say… esp when access to the temple is restricted.. who the heck really knows what goes on in there lol? 

I don't think most Christians who believe Mormons aren't Christian could articulate a good reason why they think Mormons aren't Christians.

[Stargazer]

On 6/7/2026 at 8:04 PM, Tacenda said:

Spot on! And this is probably part of the plan in Project 2025. I'm glad the LDS aren't included in their list.

Probably? I don't think anything like this was included. Besides, P2025 was put together by the Heritage Foundation, not by He Whose Name May Not Be Spoken.

[Stargazer]

20 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Why are Jehovah's Witnesses on the list? They don't serve in the military.

Goodness knows. 

[Notatbm]

15 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I don't think most Christians who believe Mormons aren't Christian could articulate a good reason why they think Mormons aren't Christians.

Ur prob right. Didn’t help them from claiming Mormons aren’t Christian’s. They can just say their pastor told them so. Defer to leaders just like many Mormons do.