MustardSeed

Let me make this clarification since smac seems personally attacked. If smac was on a secluded trail walking toward me, and i knew somehow it was smac from mormondialogue, id have no concerns for my safety. Same scenario, if i didnt know it was him at all, id be on high alert. i believe most people understand this without spelling it out , but just in case-

Want to add for full circle purposes that there are men In my life who are untrained formally that I would feel safe sharing a current situation of compromised safety with, in hopes of being believed validated and protected. Many on this site as well. There are many I deem as not leanable, who might question my experience, and I would hope they would not be my church leaders - but often they are. If I was assaulted today my bishop would not be my first stop. Would go to husband, police, friends, family and therapist in that order. No reason for bishop unless it was a ward member who caused harm.

I’m just an average gal. My experience with assault is pretty run of the mill. Was grabbed on the breast (not grazed, but grabbed and squeezed) in a crowded crosswalk. I presume by a man. Been flashed in public - full Monty- twice. Ran at and pinned to a wall by a naked man. Barricaded in a parking lot by a man who propositioned me as I was walking to the car. As a teen a 26 year old male from my ward was waiting for me at my bus stop and walked near me til I got home- I’d never spoken to him before. A man I babysat for tried to kiss me as he dropped me off- his wife was my yw advisor. Mom didn’t believe me. Recently asked by man behind me in grocery store to accompany him back to his place with zero conversation preceeding. cat calls galore. There’s the one major event that went to trial but I already shared that story. that’s top of mind- pretty normal stuff. All unacceptable. But I still love men. That is, those I have vetted as safe enough. Whenever a male comes to my home, if I haven’t met them, I request my husband be there. Band mates, home repairs etc. No exceptions, religion etc. It’s too bad. I advise the same to my daughters. I don’t consider myself imbalanced - I absolutely consider the world and danger imbalanced. Yes. Every man is a potential threat until I categorize him otherwise. I don’t think about it much, it’s just a way of life. I don’t point and yell “rapist” nor do I even think the word “rapist”- but for the purpose of this conversation, and I’m sure it lands hard, yes, every male is potentially dangerous to me. Sometimes, the threat is very very quickly mitigated. but there is zero exception to initial care I take especially when I’m isolated with a male I don’t know, and at times, isolated with a man I know, and at times, not isolated but around men I don’t know. Even in groups with men I know, I’m not 100% guaranteed safety unfortunately. but my life is good. I adore so many men that I surround myself with. Even many men on this site.

It isn’t fair that all men are suspect in certain circumstances. It’s really sad actually. There are a lot of unfair things in life. That’s hard. But, when it comes to instinct and safety, fairness and yes even political correctness sit in the back seat to reality. Back to topic at hand, there really is no good answer for training church leaders providing professional support in a church that operates on a layperson volunteer program, none that I can think of. I would not sign on to be the bishops advisor, any more than Smac should be the churches free lawyer. If a bishop wants to consult with me , they all know where to find me but I have never in 20 years had a bishop make an appointment to consult for how to handle tough parrishoners. That’s a travesty because plenty of bishops trust me enough to refer me to others. And as a therapist I myself am trained to consult with a therapist for tough cases. working with a fair number of LDS clients I’ve heard my fair share of complaints regarding leadership regarding how abuse, affairs, incest, excess handled. Obviously all one sided. But does anyone here really expect that Joe from accounting , just called as bishop, who has never asked to be or been trained to be a counselor is capable of handling serious life concerns from multiple individuals and know how without inflicting further trauma? Yikes. Stuff is going to happen.

I do view all men as potential rapists. All men. Until I have information that says otherwise. Context also matters. If I’m walking down a hallway with many people I’m not worried about each man or getting raped. But if I’m alone in a parking lot and any male I don’t know approaches, I’m preparing mentally for rape. every time. context matters.

My experience is vast and anecdotal., It’s just my opinion working as a professional therapist directly with Bishops and with numerous victims. I don’t know how much the church can do considering that this type of training would require a lot of time and effort and this is a Layperson church.

IMO church leaders are woefully undertrained regarding how to deal with perps. It’s hard enough as a trained therapist.

Hm. When I think of the oj case being bumbled I automatically go to Furman planting evidence. plenty of blame to go around on the mishandling of that case.

My opinion on this is just mine. But if the church is having a hard time retaining folks, that’s the church’s fault. It’s my opinion that a pure gospel based church experience would be beautiful and people would be flocking to be a part of it and remain. But, humans.

Indeed. Thank you for stating this . No one wins here.

Good.

Ok best to you -

Sometimes because of Jesus we put our foot down and insist on being treated respectfully and humanely. I’m not telling YOU to do things differently. I’m speaking for anyone reading, thinking they need to do things like you. best wishes, you’ve been through it.

I don’t think God has a choice 😅

I certainly don’t want more directives from human beings.. There’s too much personal opinion in such directives and we are all different. I’m not critical of them so much as I am critical of folks who hang on every word and expect everybody to do the same

Exactly. I’m not one to hang on every word of the 12. I listen and consult with God, and make my path. It would be confusing otherwise.

I’m surprised by this comment. I’m more D leading than R but even I have instincts to ignore his opinions. By the way I’m a great granddaughter to the Snelgrove ice cream founder- AND a life long member of the Church of a Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - what can you trust about me? (Nothing. I dislike ice cream)

I wonder if he’d finance health care for someone who is overweight.

A real gift is knowing what the other wants and offering when it’s not my cup of tea. imo

I bought a coffee maker for when my kids visit. They appreciate not having to drive 20 min to the nearest town every morning.

I purchase ice cream for my husband but I don’t eat it because it’s unhealthy. It feels fine to me to do so.

When men want women to depend on them financially my thoughts go to women I know whose husbands let them down, via divorce or death or tragedy or just plain bad luck. Men can tell me what they think I should do as a woman but I’ll say thanks anyway and live my life the way God and I see fit. I don’t care how other people live, that’s your life. One proclamation of lifestyle and roles is not a fit for all humans. It’s not the same as “don’t sleep with your neighbors wife” or “don’t rob banks”. Onward.

It’s interesting. I had a dinner guest Monday who announced at dinner that he did not believe in the moon landing. I asked him if he was a flat earther (brilliant minds thinking alike here lol ) and he said no. My reply was, I do believe we landed on the moon, but if it came to the point of proof it didn’t happen, I’d be so unsurprised.

My cheap 2cents- The emotional reaction that doesn’t seem to fit the situation indicates that there’s something deeper going on for her. There’s only one way to find out and that’s by having a conversation with her. If she was previously partnered with an alcoholic, my wild guess would be there’s something there. She may perceive that now the floodgates have opened with the decision to pay for alcohol for your kids meals and she may fear where that is going. She may have been simply triggered by seeing the alcohol on the counter. To me, without any information, discovering by surprise out that my husband purchased alcohol would be jarring to me, and that I have always felt safe in our sobriety.

We all should follow the chastity rule whether we are gay or straight or otherwise. Zero sex outside of marriage. I don’t think anyone needs to debate this on an LDS forum. And yet, here we are. I don’t see anyone arguing against you on this point. I’m glad we agree on this as well.