MustardSeed

Hey. God gave Abraham a son at 100. So there’s that nugget to hold on to.

Or perhaps the two leaders are two completely different humans with different leanings.

Hm. Well I am more likely to believe that people are so intrinsically flawed that they cannot look beyond their own biases and see things in a godly way enough to enact changes that would invite us all to grow. If God waits for us to be ready for everything what is the point?

I do think 15 people can be, and have been, errant.

Yes typo. But hey, 12th man, go Hawks

Exactly. There’s a tremendous amount of pressure to follow all directives given by leadership. there is absolutely no way for these human beings who lead to be always correct. In fact, imo, there are times when such directives actually do damage. It is actually a cultish mindset in my opinion to believe everything that is said or to follow every directive.

Sorry about the title. I’m from Seattle after all. Yeah Hawks

I used to think this way. I believe it was what I was taught on the primary level. I never graduated to critical thinking. Unfortunately, real life is complicated, as is religion IMO. Presently, I can live with the “nuance” as they say. But it does require me to think for myself and be clear with myself about what I actually believe other than an automatic following. It would be much easier to operate from that primary way of understanding. I also get it that many folks do believe that it is wrong to question anything that the 12 might say because they are men of God and they are speaking for God at all times. I mean, we are kind of taught that aren’t we? Isn’t there a song about that?

I’m under the impression that you believe that everything that the 12 says comes directly from God? If so, it would make sense why we are not aligning.

And I believe that homosexuals should not have sex unless they’re married, just the way I believe heterosexuals should not have sex without being married. Although we do know how well that’s going.

The freaking Pharisees, man! When we were kids and we were being naughty, my dad would call us pharisees.

It would be awesome if the church were to say regarding homosexuality: go ahead and get married. Remain faithful committed relationships. Get sealed. We as an organization do not believe you will make it to the celestial kingdom, but if you believe it, you will live better lives, and we will all be better for it. And then, everyone truly is accountable for their own decisions. As we should be. The rule is, no sex without marriage. That is the blanket rule that applies to absolutely every person, and there is no exception. Make the race fair. Just like you don’t want trans girls wrestling biological girls. Make it fair. I see no fairness in telling humankind that regardless of how you were born, you have to pretend to be something you are not in order to have all of the joys that are promised to us in life. We are promised joy if we have committed, faithful, legally bonded relationship sex. Assuming everyone is consenting to said relationship I think nobody should be forced to not experience that godly joy if they want to be righteous. That’s nonsense to me.

Like President Nelson saying God is offended by using the title of Mormon? After that whole big “ I’m a Mormon” movement? As far as I’m concerned anything other than solid “declared-as-doctrine” stuff has potential to change in this church- in other words, most everything about this church can change at any minute. In fact, some stuff that I thought was doctrine my whole life actually is “church.” So yes, why not the sentiment that homosexuals can live a righteous life?

FWIW I’m always interested in what you have to say whether I agree with it or not.

I can certainly appreciate the sentiment. I agree totally that there is no limits to us being Christlike. Certainly don’t need calling to reinforce our devotion.. That said, within the church, there is a tremendous social pressure to serve. I think every Christmas autobiography we received in the form of a Christmas card indicated what people’s callings were. also, I don’t think it’s wrong to want to contribute in a concrete and visible way to whatever organization one is invested in. But to your point, there is plenty of opportunity to serve the Lord every minute of the day in every interaction we have.

I was going to say this. My sister carries a hand gun as does the female singer in our band. if one goes to or is near a protest are they looking for trouble? If one assists a woman who has been thrust to the ground, are they a trouble maker? I’d need more information.

By virtue of the fact that the original question here in this thread did not identify the ward members in question as being criminals but rather just being undocumented suggests a mindset that people have that is concerning to me. I also do not trust a word coming out of the ICE organization itself nor do I trust our administration. Particularly not on this issue.

It’s important to keep in mind in these conversations that being in this country without legal documentation is not actually a crime in most cases. But the way ICE appears to be treating people is as though they are the worst of criminals.

Best advice I ever got: it’s ok to be a little bit hungry. always leave the last bite on the plate. and just keep going with that exercise until it no longer has to be a decision.

Bank robbers generally get due process.

It has never occurred to me to report in or out of church. I can’t imagine doing such a thing. I can only think of maybe one person in my world who might. 😕

I just hope we can hold on to some of the other changes pres Nelson initiated. I don’t care about the name but you can pry 2 hour church and my slip from my cold dead hands 😂

It appears he likes to fantasize that we are all going to be discovered wrong and he is going to be discovered right. It’s an interesting way of viewing the world. Very black and white.

Thanks for posting - I’m not a super fan but I can see why some folks would be excited about this type of thing.

As with everything else in life, do what seems right to you and God, be honest with yourself, and it will all work out.