MustardSeed

Thank you - ————- I don’t care about the case so much as I care about the fact that men took advantage, AGAIN, of an opportunity to ***get off. *** I’m glad people are angry about it. It makes me feel comforted in a way. Im not personally comforted at all by anyone who defends the men by suggesting that the men are potential victims of the woman. I recognize there are those who are unbothered by the absence of comfort. That’s fine too. But I’m here to point it out- this is a social media site, we are social beings interacting here and having a relationship, and I want you to know the impact you have on our relationship. I am not one to just be quiet about my thoughts. Take it or leave it, as I will with yours.

I think we all are doing all of this for social reasons. (Opinion) Another topic for another day in another place on this “social media” site.

Fair enough

Thanks

As a whole. In other words, it’s just life. (imo)

I would like to submit this is an example of why I suggested earlier that there will be no joining in discussion with you and other board members due to the fact that you appear to approach discussions from a lawyer‘s point of view, as though you are defending the law. Others come here because this is social media with an emphasis on social. We are looking to connect. Like it or not we are all lonely human beings who need more connection and this is one way to get it. It’s frustrating when you do not allow emotion in these conversations to have any merit. These are emotional topics, and in my opinion, there is room for emotions **when we are not in a courtroom determining the fate of an accused person. I recognize that you come to the table to discuss gospel issues and to engage in discussion that allows you to defend facts and legal limits. I think that there is room for that. You make a lot of solid points. Please consider leaving room for the human side and emotional needs people like I have. I appreciate Nehors emotion around this topic because I feel seen and protected. That feels really good. And since there’s a part of me that is lonely and comes to social media to scratch a connection itch, his words meet a certain social need for me, especially coming from a man. And maybe if I was unfairly accused of rape someday I would hope that you would be on my legal team as well. I think there’s room for all of us here.

I think we are getting closer to what drives “me“ nuts about this topic. I get really triggered when people who have outrageously, beautiful, fortunate, wealthy beyond imagination, fun, ridiculous lives, and they claim to be “blessed” - like it just sends me to the moon. Likewise, when people have really hard things going on and they want to know why God has given them these trials and what he wants them to learn. This also sends me to the moon. If there’s any truth to these philosophies, then I’d like a word with God. But I do not believe that there is. There is no way that a God who is just and all knowing is going to create such diversity. I have to believe we do it to ourselves and that God weeps for us when things are hard and that he will exact absolute justice in the end. What else could there possibly be? That’s my biggest complaint about being religious. I have to hear these messages all the time and it just sends me! 😕

If it’s true that he intervenes at times and not in others, then there “is” no difference, as I see it

I don’t know that there is any doctrine that supports the idea that God creates hardships for the purpose of teaching a specific lesson. I know our Sunday language suggests that but I really don’t know that anything backs that up?

I’m sorry.

I sort of get this. I just can’t expect “blessings” because I get really disillusioned when the blessings expectation is grossly unmet. but I also get being in a mindset where every day seems to have miracles in it- you do find what you seek.

I keep returning to this. It squeezes a fundamental question I have often- is there room to be faithful and not expect anything at all from God? In fact for me it seems to be the only way. I find life to be woefully unfair - both in my favor and otherwise. None of it makes any sense and it threatens to erode my faith at times. after life promises do nothing to motivate me. if I can instead trust that God exists and loves me and hears me and loves me and is at the root of all that man chooses to do that is good, then I can enjoy the occasional if not oft glimmer of greatness and beauty I can thoroughly enjoy and recognize that he is at the root of that, if not the cause .

That’s such a great wondering and can be very painful too. Do you think when something bad happens that it’s Gods will? Is everything Gods will? Maybe if everything is Gods will the trick becomes radical acceptance, a willingness to accept the ride. Letting go of your own expectations can require some grief, no?

Boy howdy are they disturbing.

How might this world evolve if somehow, our culture was one that when women announced they were available for intoxicated group rape, that EVERY man said no? How would women see themselves differently in that world? I can’t imagine.

I personally don’t care if she signed a legal binding contract saying that she was interested in having group sex with 12 men and a monkey. I find every man who participated in this activity to be morally corrupt and deserves to be dragged. This is the way we demonstrate zero tolerance for this behavior. I’m OK with that.

ill be honest, yes the church teaches that those who need directed will do so in "spirit prison" - mormons and heathens alike (lol) but I'll tell you we are also told that we do not believe in traditional "hell for eternity' with the burning and the devil and whatnot. In fact, none of us have the first clue what spirit prison actually is. We are mere mortals who have given this revelation a name, and we call it spirit prison, but any assumptions are pure conjecture. I'm not worried about it so much myself. And, this is important - I've never condemned anyone to 'hell' or even to 'spirit prison' - but I've had plenty, even friends, all protestants, mostly baptists, who have told me I'm going to hell unless I accept christ into my life. (which in my mind I have because I have a conversation with Him just about every day and I set aside a whole day of worship for Him and I read my bible and I repent and Im grateful for His saving grace - what else is there besides loving my neighbor? ) As a Mormon I don't care much about another bus' rust. I have enough of my own to be concerned about. By the way I'm pretty good at bus driving, I'm just not allowed to. do what you will with that.

LDS aren’t going to get with your analogy. We don’t judge everyone else as being broken down or as flawed. We just simply see the other bus drivers not having the state issued license

Smac is there room for you to acknowledge that while there is not a lesson for the missionaries in the mtc directly teaching missionaries to pull children away from their parents and churches, that it is true that one of the realities of missionary work is that young people, teens will at times be taught and that there is not a pointed rule that missionaries must have express permission from parents first? Or if there is now, there wasn’t before? let’s bridge this conversation gap.

You win I guess

There is a fundamental difference here that precludes understanding. My opinion is that Smac speaks from a position of proving that his point of view will be court passable. The large majority here, in contrast, are here to primarily socialize. The rules of social engagement are vastly different than the rules of court engagement. Smac wins at legal observances. The rest win at being safe friendships and engaging in social ineractions in ways that foster vulnerabilities and intimacy. No one is wrong unless you think you’re even playing the same sport. 🧨

I’ve always understood that the sacraments purpose is to renew our covenant (meaning baptismal covenant)

Apparently photo ops in general are a very big deal in Utah according to my photographer friend. She says Utah is rampant with influencers and photographers- maybe it’s similar to the reasons there are so many MLMs in Utah - lots of stay at home parents who have time to be online and work from home so these types of things become trends quickly.

Me too! I might share it in my ward fb page- it’s free and no alcohol served- all ages.

In the context of this entire thread- I don’t care so much about the legalities of what can be determined to be illegal or not. This is disgusting and as a woman I’m not feeling safer in the world by any part of this story. The only thing that invites more safety to my psyche is that the first exposure I had to the story was a man spouting off in a very angry way in a video talking about this and how disgusted he is with rape culture, and the fact that men do not do enough to shut this down with other men. That’s a good start.