Judged From The Book Of Life (Rev 20:12)

[DBMormon]

This is a pet theory of mine regarding Revelation chapter 20: 12 and I am curious if any other explanation of the different books is seen and understood. I understand the traditional way we see this scripture as LDS but have we really taken the time to read it slowly and see all it's dynamics?

Revelation 20:12 has been used by many a missionary and many a Sunday school teacher to prove we are judged by our works. Perhaps we should take a closer look at the scripture. It is interesting to note here that books (plural) are opened, then another book (singular) was opened. The singular book is the book of life and then John proceeds to tell us we are judged from the words of the books (plural), according to our works. If our works are written in the plural set of books, while the singular book is the book of life, then that changes the meaning drastically. It states that each of us shall be judged from the (plural set of) books containing our works which will find each of us short of the law or of keeping the law perfectly. Verse 15 then tells us that if our name is not found in the Book of life (containing something different then our works?) then we shall be heirs of the devil and hell because we are unprofitable servants. The book of LIFE contains just that, those who are heirs of eternal life and joint heirs with Christ. We see here even a scripture used to evidence one train of thought may likely have been misused at times.

[cdowis]

Clearly the church records will be included in those records. Our baptism, for example, is not valid without a church record. I remember that I discovered that my daughter's baptism was not recorded in the records. Fortunately I had a journal entry when I baptized her, so the record was corrected.

In another case, when improper temple ordinances were performed (holocaust victims), the records were removed.

[DBMormon]

i could see part of this being church record and ordinances. but it seems more then that too

[mfbukowski]

As I see it, you are perhaps putting one possible interpretation of one passage of John (which may or may not have been "translated correctly"- with all that phrase implies to LDS) above all the other scriptural interpretations of the LDS, conference talks etc.

It's like trying to hold up an elephant with a toothpick.

[Garden Girl]

Hello reelmormon...

And don't forget V. 13... "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man according to their works."

I think it is clear that regardless of what all is contained in the books, our works play a major role in our judgment, if not the major role as far as the records, as well as our being included in the Book of Life.

GG

edit to add: And I agree with MFB... we have modern revelation...

Edited May 28, 2012 by Garden Girl

[BCSpace]

Without further research, I would go with the notion that the contents of the books (plural) determine whether or not one is also found in the Book of Life.

[zerinus]

This is a pet theory of mine regarding Revelation chapter 20: 12 and I am curious if any other explanation of the different books is seen and understood. I understand the traditional way we see this scripture as LDS but have we really taken the time to read it slowly and see all it's dynamics?

* * *

There is no doubt that God judges people according to their works:

John 5:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

1 Peter 1:

17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear;

Revelation 20:

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

1 Nephi 15:

32 And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation.

33 Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness they must be cast off also, as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining to righteousness; wherefore, they must be brought to stand before God, to be judged of their works; and if their works have been filthiness they must needs be filthy; and if they be filthy it must needs be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of God; if so, the kingdom of God must be filthy also.

2 Nephi 25:

22 Wherefore, these things shall go from generation to generation as long as the earth shall stand; and they shall go according to the will and pleasure of God; and the nations who shall possess them shall be judged of them according to the words which are written.

2 Nephi 29:

11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.

Mosiah 3:

24 And thus saith the Lord: They shall stand as a bright testimony against this people, at the judgment day; whereof they shall be judged, every man according to his works, whether they be good, or whether they be evil.

Mosiah 16:

10 Even this mortal shall put on immortality, and this corruption shall put on incorruption, and shall be brought to stand before the bar of God, to be judged of him according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil;

Alma 11:

41 Therefore the wicked remain as though there had been no redemption made, except it be the loosing of the bands of death; for behold, the day cometh that all shall rise from the dead and stand before God, and be judged according to their works.

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Alma 12:

8 And Zeezrom began to inquire of them diligently, that he might know more concerning the kingdom of God. And he said unto Alma: What does this mean which Amulek hath spoken concerning the resurrection of the dead, that all shall rise from the dead, both the just and the unjust, and are brought to stand before God to be judged according to their works?

12 And Amulek hath spoken plainly concerning death, and being raised from this mortality to a state of immortality, and being brought before the bar of God, to be judged according to our works.

Alma 32:

20 Now of this thing ye must judge. Behold, I say unto you, that it is on the one hand even as it is on the other; and it shall be unto every man according to his work.

Alma 33:

22 If so, wo shall come upon you; but if not so, then cast about your eyes and begin to believe in the Son of God, that he will come to redeem his people, and that he shall suffer and die to atone for their sins; and that he shall rise again from the dead, which shall bring to pass the resurrection, that all men shall stand before him, to be judged at the last and judgment day, according to their works.

Alma 40:

21 But whether it be at his resurrection or after, I do not say; but this much I say, that there is a space between death and the resurrection of the body, and a state of the soul in happiness or in misery until the time which is appointed of God that the dead shall come forth, and be reunited, both soul and body, and be brought to stand before God, and be judged according to their works.

Alma 41:

3 And it is requisite with the justice of God that men should be judged according to their works; and if their works were good in this life, and the desires of their hearts were good, that they should also, at the last day, be restored unto that which is good.

Alma 42:

23 But God ceaseth not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement; and the atonement bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead; and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God; and thus they are restored into his presence, to be judged according to their works, according to the law and justice.

3 Nephi 26:

4 And even unto the great and last day, when all people, and all kindreds, and all nations and tongues shall stand before God, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil;

3 Nephi 27:

14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil;

3 Nephi 27:

15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.

3 Nephi 27:

25 For behold, out of the books which have been written, and which shall be written, shall this people be judged, for by them shall their works be known unto men.

26 And behold, all things are written by the Father; therefore out of the books which shall be written shall the world be judged.

Mormon 3:

18 Yea, behold, I write unto all the ends of the earth; yea, unto you, twelve tribes of Israel, who shall be judged according to your works by the twelve whom Jesus chose to be his disciples in the land of Jerusalem.

20 And these things doth the Spirit manifest unto me; therefore I write unto you all. And for this cause I write unto you, that ye may know that ye must all stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, yea, every soul who belongs to the whole human family of Adam; and ye must stand to be judged of your works, whether they be good or evil;

Mormon 6:

21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.

Mormon 8:

19 For behold, the same that judgeth rashly shall be judged rashly again; for according to his works shall his wages be; therefore, he that smiteth shall be smitten again, of the Lord.

D&C 76:

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared

D&C 137:

9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.

[CV75]

This is a pet theory of mine regarding Revelation chapter 20: 12 and I am curious if any other explanation of the different books is seen and understood. I understand the traditional way we see this scripture as LDS but have we really taken the time to read it slowly and see all it's dynamics?

Revelation 20:12 ***We see here even a scripture used to evidence one train of thought may likely have been misused at times.

Yes we have, on the whole and just as often individually. What is the difference between a train of thought and a pet theory, and how can either be determined as the result of a misused scripture?

In Revelation 20 we have the resurrection (13), judgment (13, 12), the second death or the casting away from God’s presence forever (14, 15).

The books of course are many: the tablets of the hearts of men, the holy scriptures, the testimony of the righteous, journals, ordinance records kept by way of covenant under priesthood keys, and the Book of Life. All these books exist by virtue of individuals’ choices and works (including God’s), and require work to create, whether the record is made on earth or in heaven, by oneself or by other witnesses, sealed by the Holy Spirit or not. All these books have to match up, after all we can do.

The books reflect our thoughts, words and deeds (Mosiah 4: 29-30), and I think it safe to regard all these as "works" (Alma 41:3).

[DBMormon]

I will do some more study... Appreciate each of your comments. I likely am taking one scripture alone without weighing it against the rest.

[zerinus]

This is a pet theory of mine regarding Revelation chapter 20: 12 and I am curious if any other explanation of the different books is seen and understood. I understand the traditional way we see this scripture as LDS but have we really taken the time to read it slowly and see all it's dynamics?

. . . It states that each of us shall be judged from the (plural set of) books containing our works which will find each of us short of the law or of keeping the law perfectly. Verse 15 then tells us that if our name is not found in the Book of life (containing something different then our works?) then we shall be heirs of the devil and hell because we are unprofitable servants. . . .

No it doesn't. That is your invention. The scriptures that I have given clearly teach that "they that have done good, [shall come forth] unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29). Our name will be found in "book of life" if we have been among those who have been doing good; otherwise we will be joining the other crew.

[CV75]

I will do some more study... Appreciate each of your comments. I likely am taking one scripture alone without weighing it against the rest.

I think that would be good to do. I like these in particular:

D&C 128: 6, 7 “And further, I want you to remember that John the Revelator was contemplating this very subject in relation to the dead, when he declared, as you will find recorded in Revelation 20:12—And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. You will discover in this quotation that the books were opened; and another book was opened, which was the book of life; but the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works; consequently, the books spoken of must be the books which contained the record of their works, and refer to the records which are kept on the earth. And the book which was the book of life is the record which is kept in heaven; the principle agreeing precisely with the doctrine which is commanded you in the revelation contained in the letter which I wrote to you previous to my leaving my place—that in all your recordings it may be recorded in heaven.”

Philippians 4: 3, “And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.”

[Aliwe]

There is no doubt that God judges people according to their works:

D&C 76:

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared

D&C 137:

9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.

On the contrary, it is written:

Mosiah 3:21 And behold, when that time cometh, none shall be found blameless before God, except it be little children, only through repentance and faith on the name of the Lord God Omnipotent.

[Calm]

On the contrary, it is written:

Mosiah 3:21 And behold, when that time cometh, none shall be found blameless before God, except it be little children, only through repentance and faith on the name of the Lord God Omnipotent.

There is no contradiction if repentance and faith are defined as works....which since they are actions and not passive events is reasonable.

[Aliwe]

There is no contradiction if repentance and faith are defined as works....which since they are actions and not passive events is reasonable.

But neither are physical actions, they are interior mental states. Repentance is a change of heart, with the goal of making amends. Faith is a divinely bestowed inner assurance of things which cannot be ascertained by observation. It is the actions which follow repentance and faith which demonstrate their sincerity. If the repentant man follows through with his goal of making amends, then his repentance is true. If the man of faith performs good works, then he shows forth a living faith.

[volgadon]

They are not solely interior mental states. Both require one to act in concrete terms.

[zerinus]

But neither are physical actions, they are interior mental states. Repentance is a change of heart, with the goal of making amends.

Repentance is a change of behaviour. It means to stop doing what is wring, and start doing what is right.

Faith is a divinely bestowed inner assurance of things which cannot be ascertained by observation.

Faith is the "substance [assurance] of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). It is a motivation to action, but it is also the result of an action. One must be willing, and take the first steps to plant the seed (Alma 32). Faith will not come if we do not first plant the seed, and then nourish it until it grows to maturity.

It is the actions which follow repentance and faith which demonstrate their sincerity. If the repentant man follows through with his goal of making amends, then his repentance is true. If the man of faith performs good works, then he shows forth a living faith.

Repentance is much more than just "making amends;" and good works are a matter of choice, not just faith alone.

[Aliwe]

They are not solely interior mental states. Both require one to act in concrete terms.

Not as far as God is concerned, since he can discern a man's inner heart. But man is justified by the kind of faith and repentance that is also shown forth in physical action

[Vance]

But neither are physical actions, they are interior mental states. Repentance is a change of heart, with the goal of making amends. Faith is a divinely bestowed inner assurance of things which cannot be ascertained by observation. It is the actions which follow repentance and faith which demonstrate their sincerity.

????

"go and sin no more" is not a change of physical actions?

If the repentant man follows through with his goal of making amends, then his repentance is true.

And,

If the repentant man does not follow through with his goal of making amends, then his repentance is not true. He is, therefore, NOT a repentant man.

To be "repentant" REQUIRES "physical actions".

[mfbukowski]

On the contrary, it is written:

Mosiah 3:21 And behold, when that time cometh, none shall be found blameless before God, except it be little children, only through repentance and faith on the name of the Lord God Omnipotent.

Do you actually think that is contrary to what he said?

It is not. Your one-liners need more thought behind them.

Logically, being blameless or even being found "blameless" has nothing to do with God judging them according to their works

He can judge them according to their faith and works and repentance and find them blameless or not.

And those who are fully "blameless" may only be little children. But that has nothing to do with how we are rewarded

Edited June 22, 2012 by mfbukowski

[Aliwe]

To be "repentant" REQUIRES "physical actions".

One of the thieves who was nailed up on the cross next to Jesus could do very little in the way of physical action, except scream maybe, but Christ could see that he was repentant, and forgave the man, and promised him life eternal.

[Vance]

One of the thieves who was nailed up on the cross next to Jesus could do very little in the way of physical action, except scream maybe, but Christ could see that he was repentant, and forgave the man, and promised him life eternal.

No, he didn't promise him "life eternal". That is simply a presumption on your part. Read the text again.

BTW, the "paradise" actually mentioned in the text did NOT mean "heaven" as you are, again, presuming. For three days later Christ had yet to ascend to heaven.

So, you have no basis for your "interpretation" other than simple presumption on your part.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Vance

[John Ping Pong]

To be "repentant" REQUIRES "physical actions".

Is there a reason the Book of Mormon is replete with stories of those who are born again while in a state in which they can perform no physical action?

See, for example, Alma the Younger. (Cf. Mosiah 27 and Alma 36)

[mfbukowski]

One of the thieves who was nailed up on the cross next to Jesus could do very little in the way of physical action, except scream maybe, but Christ could see that he was repentant, and forgave the man, and promised him life eternal.

Your point?

Thinking is a physical action- blinking your eyes is a physical action, screaming is a physical action, talking is a physical action- this is going no where

[Vance]

Is there a reason the Book of Mormon is replete with stories of those who are born again while in a state in which they can perform no physical action?

See, for example, Alma the Younger. (Cf. Mosiah 27 and Alma 36)

I think you are confusing "conversion" with "repentance".

[zerinus]

One of the thieves who was nailed up on the cross next to Jesus could do very little in the way of physical action, except scream maybe, but Christ could see that he was repentant, and forgave the man, and promised him life eternal.

He was still able to do some, which given his limitations (of time as well as action) was sufficient to demonstrate repentance:

Luke 23:

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

So he didn't just do nothing. He did something, which demonstrated his faith and repentance.