25 replies to this topic

[Vance]

Aliwe, on 22 June 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

One of the thieves who was nailed up on the cross next to Jesus could do very little in the way of physical action, except scream maybe, but Christ could see that he was repentant, and forgave the man, and promised him life eternal.

No, he didn't promise him "life eternal".  That is simply a presumption on your part.  Read the text again.

BTW, the "paradise" actually mentioned in the text did NOT mean "heaven" as you are, again, presuming.  For three days later Christ had yet to ascend to heaven.

So, you have no basis for your "interpretation" other than simple presumption on your part.

Edited by Vance, 22 June 2012 - 02:29 PM.

[John Ping Pong]

Vance, on 22 June 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

To be "repentant" REQUIRES "physical actions".

Is there a reason the Book of Mormon is replete with stories of those who are born again while in a state in which they can perform no physical action?

See, for example, Alma the Younger.  (Cf. Mosiah 27 and Alma 36)

[mfbukowski]

Aliwe, on 22 June 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

One of the thieves who was nailed up on the cross next to Jesus could do very little in the way of physical action, except scream maybe, but Christ could see that he was repentant, and forgave the man, and promised him life eternal.

Your point?
Thinking is a physical action- blinking your eyes is a physical action, screaming is a physical action, talking is a physical action- this is going no where

[Vance]

John Ping Pong, on 22 June 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Is there a reason the Book of Mormon is replete with stories of those who are born again while in a state in which they can perform no physical action?

See, for example, Alma the Younger.  (Cf. Mosiah 27 and Alma 36)

I think you are confusing "conversion" with "repentance".

[zerinus]

Aliwe, on 22 June 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

One of the thieves who was nailed up on the cross next to Jesus could do very little in the way of physical action, except scream maybe, but Christ could see that he was repentant, and forgave the man, and promised him life eternal.

He was still able to do some, which given his limitations (of time as well as action) was sufficient to demonstrate repentance:

Luke 23:

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

So he didn't just do nothing. He did something, which demonstrated his faith and repentance.

[Aliwe]

Vance, on 22 June 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

BTW, the "paradise" actually mentioned in the text did NOT mean "heaven" as you are, again, presuming.  For three days later Christ had yet to ascend to heaven.

I don't want to quibble about the different levels of heaven in CoJCoLDS cosmology found in your various extrabiblical texts but I would count myself fortunate to attain to the same place that was promised that thief, because there I would have access to life eternal, precisely as I claimed in my earlier post.   Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.