On Justification: For Your Listening Pleasure

[mercyngrace]

I was listening this morning to a radio program called Unbelievable in which N.T. Wright, preeminent New Testament scholar, prolific writer, and Bishop of Durham was debating American Evangelical Theologian James White. Dr. White acknowledged partway through that if Wright's interpretation of Pauline scripture is accurate then, the reformers didn't quite have everything correct and there would be a need for more word from God (as opposed to White's sola scriptura approach).... Why yes, James. We Mormons call that "Apostasy and Restoration." It's a few months old but it's a good listen for anyone interested.

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Edited May 5, 2013 by mercyngrace

[Palerider]

I was listening this morning to a radio program called Unbelievable in which N.T. Wright, preeminent New Testament scholar, prolific writer, and Bishop of Durham was debating American Evangelical Theologian James White. Dr. White acknowledged partway through that if Wright's interpretation of Pauline scripture is accurate then, the reformers didn't quite have everything correct and there would be a need for more word from God (as opposed to White's sola scriptura approach).... Why yes, James. We Mormons call that "Apostasy and Restoration." It's a few months old but it's a good listen for anyone interested.

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Thanks so much for posting this. It is very interesting and shows a great deal, the difficulty involved in translating both context as well as meaning from one language to another. Still I think there is sufficient information in the Biblical scriptures for the honest in heart to find salvation.

Regarding the acknowlegment about the need for more word from God if the reformers got it wrong, I didn't hear that but it wouldn't be the first time I missed a particular point. Sometimes I do a bit of a mental wander on something that has been said and by the time I get back, I've missed something. I may listen again to be sure.

[mercyngrace]

It's a roundabout acknowledgement. James White, apologist and founder of Alpha and Omega ministries, poses a rhetorical question based on the radio commentator's suggestion that based on Tom Wright' analysis, it may be time for a reformation of the Reformation. White says that this seems to be what Tom is saying. Start at 1:02:20

James:...If the Spirit of God has been active in pastors and teachers for all that period of time, how did everybody miss it for all that time?...

In other words, if Wright is correct, those who came out of the reformation tradition but before his interpretation, were not. Protestantism then, was not enough. There would need to have been a broader, deeper, restoration or reformation and in White's worldview, that in "concerning".

[Palerider]

Gotcha.

I did hear that and I had similar thoughts to yours. That there had been a muddying of the waters so to speak after the Savior's ascencion, and that it will be cleared up, irrefutably when He returns and fully restores his kingdom. The reformation made a good faith attempt to straighten things out, even though it falls somewhat short. The divergence I have with the LDS faith is when that restoration will actually take place.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Palerider

[3DOP]

Just for the record, N.T. Wright is an Anglican bishop. I hope to listen later in the day myself, but for now would suggest that to some extent, Wright would have a commitment to Reformation doctrine. Historically, Anglicans hold to sola scriptura as does James White.

Edited May 7, 2013 by 3DOP

[mercyngrace]

Just for the record, N.T. Wright is an Anglican bishop. I hope to listen later in the day myself, but for now would suggest that to some extent, Wright would have a commitment to Reformation doctrine. Historically, Anglicans hold to sola scriptura as does James White.

IIRC, it is White who uses sola scriptura to differentiate between his position and Wright's. You'll hear what I'm referring to when you listen to the podcast.

Edited May 7, 2013 by mercyngrace

[Tyresias]

Sometimes I do a bit of a mental wander on something that has been said and by the time I get back, I've missed something. I may listen again to be sure.

I wonder what makes us "wander" away from what we're listening to? Perhaps it is something we dont like or dont want to hear that makes us "zone out" for a moment and loose track of the point. Thoughts?

[daz2]

Anglicanism does not have its route in the Luther/Calvin Reformation. I broke from Roman Catholicism over the question of who is the head of the Church in England, not because of other doctrinal differences. That being said, much of Reformation teaching has had an effect on Anglicanism (as well as its descendent, Methodism).

[Damien the Leper]

I don't much care for White's theology. I remember reading Maklelan's back and forth with White a while back. Mak did wonderful. I prefer N.T. Wright and his work over the regurgitated mess of White. What most modern Reformists don't understand is that they don't resemble or represent true Calvinism.

[Palerider]

I wonder what makes us "wander" away from what we're listening to? Perhaps it is something we dont like or dont want to hear that makes us "zone out" for a moment and loose track of the point. Thoughts?

Whoa....That's a stretch.

Regardless of what is being discussed, whether it be biology, engineering or religion, as a person hears a particular concept being put forth, sometimes they begin to think of the different ramifications of that concept, instead of staying current with the existential moment. In many ways that's a good thing, because it means the learner develops questions upon which the teacher can shed further light. But it comes at the expense of falling behind in the current discussion and requires some catching up. It's how we learn.

I think most people experience this to some degree or another when listening to a lecture.

No need to read anything negative into it..........Yeeesh.......

[Calm]

Whoa....That's a stretch.

Regardless of what is being discussed, whether it be biology, engineering or religion, as a person hears a particular concept being put forth, sometimes they begin to think of the different ramifications of that concept, instead of staying current with the existential moment. In many ways that's a good thing, because it means the learner develops questions upon which the teacher can shed further light. But it comes at the expense of falling behind in the current discussion and requires some catching up. It's how we learn.

I think most people experience this to some degree or another when listening to a lecture.

No need to read anything negative into it..........Yeeesh.......

Then there is just being tired and unable to stay focused.

[Palerider]

Then there is just being tired and unable to stay focused.

Absolutely!

And sometimes we just get OLD and lose our attention span. That one hurts as well.........

Edited May 15, 2013 by Palerider