41 replies to this topic

[mercyngrace]

Is it ever appropriate for a sister to offer unsolicited counsel to a priesthood leader?

How about a priesthood holder?  Is it appropriate for him to offer unsolicited counsel to one of his leaders?

Upon what do you base your opinion?

[Log]

mercyngrace, on 29 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Is it ever appropriate for a sister to offer unsolicited counsel to a priesthood leader?

How about a priesthood holder?  Is it appropriate for him to offer unsolicited counsel to one of his leaders?

Upon what do you base your opinion?

Yes to all two of those questions.  I base my opinion on the teachings of Brigham Young.

Quote

If any member in the Church that has not the Priesthood should see one doing wrong that had the Priesthood and he should correct him in the spirit of meekness and humility and the man having the Priesthood should rise up in anger and say, "Oh you have no business to correct me, I have the Priesthood and am a great man."  "Well" says the other, "I feel to warn you against evil, but we will wait and see how it will come out."  Which is the most justified?  The man without the Priesthood!

Edited by Log, 29 April 2012 - 06:07 PM.

[altersteve]

Counsel (advice), yes. Revelation, no.

[wenglund]

According to the Talmud: "Ten measures of speech were given to the world, and nine of them were allocated to women."

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Log]

wenglund, on 29 April 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

According to the Talmud: "Ten measures of speech were given to the world, and nine of them were allocated to women."

Which puts me in mind of another poetic aphorism: Women's faults are many, men have only two: everything they say, and everything they do.

Edited by Log, 29 April 2012 - 06:09 PM.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Yes to both.

Based primarily upon personal experience. Revelation (virtually) never occurs in a vacuum; consequently, it is our duty to feed priesthood leaders  as much information as possible. We should, of course, attempt to make that information helpful and not just some personal whingeing, but I'd rather risk being over-informed rather than under-informed.

My bishop has repeatedly taught this principle, and, as I've served as the Young Men president/priests quorum advisor in my ward for the past six years, I've done everything I could to keep him informed in useful ways, including, when appropriate, offering counsel. Now that I've been called to serve as his counsellor, I feel even more strongly about the need to know what ward members are thinking.

BTW, this issue was addressed in either the last or the second-last worldwide leadership training broadcast: A sister in a ward (in Tonga?) had approached her bishop with a plan to help re-activate prospective elders, and the bishop had adopted it to excellent outcome. We were encouraged as leaders to be open to this process.

[mercyngrace]

For all of you who said this would be fine,  how would you feel if a sister offered counsel that (no matter how nicely expressed) suggested you'd done something wrong?

[CV75]

mercyngrace, on 29 April 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

For all of you who said this would be fine,  how would you feel if a sister offered counsel that (no matter how nicely expressed) suggested you'd done something wrong?

I would go ahead and zip up my fly.

[Duncan]

mercyngrace, on 29 April 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

For all of you who said this would be fine,  how would you feel if a sister offered counsel that (no matter how nicely expressed) suggested you'd done something wrong?

you should meet my Mom and two sisters! They tell it like it is but willing to receive counsel from their priesthood leaders! I sit in ward council mtg and everyone gives input and the Bishop makes a decision based on what he hears-mind you I have had leaders do the opposite, they make decisions and this is what is happening

[Kenngo1969]

CV75, on 29 April 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

I would go ahead and zip up my fly.

[Garden Girl]

Hmmm...like it or not, I do not hesitate to offer my opinion when I deem something important enough and want to voice my input.  I do so in as diplomatc manner as possible, and only when I see some aspect I consider important not being addressed by the ph(s) in charge.  This does not happen often because we have quite a good ward leadership.  I guess my willingness to speak up comes from 30 years experience of working in advisory/supportive positions to leaders in male-dominated settings.

GG

[calmoriah]

Same here, GG.

[MorningStar]

I don't see anything wrong with it, but the person offering advice might be in for a disagreement.

[Mudcat]

IMO, I would pray about it first. If God keeps this issue on your heart, the Lord will appoint an appropriate time for you to address it.

Scripture says something about not muzzling the ox that...., but a good shot of penicillin now and again is timely for us all I expect.

[Hamba Tuhan]

mercyngrace, on 29 April 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

For all of you who said this would be fine,  how would you feel if a sister offered counsel that (no matter how nicely expressed) suggested you'd done something wrong?

Since, I actually do do things wrong, I would listen to the counsel, weigh it, quite possibly share it with my bishop, and then act according to whether or not it was accurate. Why should I be concerned about the gender of the person offering the feedback???

[Storm Rider]

mercyngrace, on 29 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Is it ever appropriate for a sister to offer unsolicited counsel to a priesthood leader?

How about a priesthood holder?  Is it appropriate for him to offer unsolicited counsel to one of his leaders?

Upon what do you base your opinion?

I am trying to rely on common sense.  Would I ever offer advice or counsel to an individual I did not know?  No.  A person has to be seeking advice to receive; if he or she is not asking, they are not ready to hear it.

When I know someone and we are just talking about a myriad of topics, it is easy to bring up situations of concern and have a back and forth discussion.  If I am in the role of someone that he or she trusts, I share advice when they ask for it.

It is a little bit like Jesus standing at the door knocking.  We have to answer before he comes into our heart.  People have to open their ears and hearts to hear counsel.

[Bernard Gui]

mercyngrace, on 29 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Is it ever appropriate for a sister to offer unsolicited counsel to a priesthood leader?

How about a priesthood holder?  Is it appropriate for him to offer unsolicited counsel to one of his leaders?

Upon what do you base your opinion?

My mother lived in the ward of which I was bishop. She gave me unsolicited advice all the time.

Bernard

[mercyngrace]

Mudcat, on 29 April 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

IMO, I would pray about it first. If God keeps this issue on your heart, the Lord will appoint an appropriate time for you to address it.

Scripture says something about not muzzling the ox that...., but a good shot of penicillin now and again is timely for us all I expect.

Been praying and the issue still weighs on me but I am hesitant for reasons Storm Rider mentioned.

Storm Rider, on 29 April 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

I am trying to rely on common sense.  Would I ever offer advice or counsel to an individual I did not know?  No.  A person has to be seeking advice to receive; if he or she is not asking, they are not ready to hear it.

When I know someone and we are just talking about a myriad of topics, it is easy to bring up situations of concern and have a back and forth discussion.  If I am in the role of someone that he or she trusts, I share advice when they ask for it.

It is a little bit like Jesus standing at the door knocking.  We have to answer before he comes into our heart.  People have to open their ears and hearts to hear counsel.

I don't know the brother personally which is why this is difficult.  If I knew him, odds are we'd be friends and I wouldn't hesitate to speak up.  There is also the simple fact that  I've spoken and taught in church enough to know that we all misspeak from time to time. To complicate the issue, the same concept was reiterated by two other speakers, one a young missionary, and the other one of my son's teachers. All good people, and all teaching an idea that I feel is damaging. Having likely done the same many times through my own spiritual journey, I'm inclined to let it go.

Edited by mercyngrace, 30 April 2012 - 07:07 AM.

[Storm Rider]

mercyngrace, on 30 April 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

Been praying and the issue still weighs on me but I am hesitant for reasons Storm Rider mentioned.

I don't know the brother personally which is why this is difficult.  If I knew him, odds are we'd be friends and I wouldn't hesitate to speak up.  There is also the simple fact that  I've spoken and taught in church enough to know that we all misspeak from time to time. To complicate the issue, the same concept was reiterated by two other speakers, one a young missionary, and the other one of my son's teachers. All good people, and all teaching an idea that I feel is damaging. Having likely done the same many times through my own spiritual journey, I'm inclined to let it go.

This may be one of those times where you create an opportunity to talk the individual and then let the Spirit guide.  The topic may be brought up in a very non-confrontational manner, as a discussion or something that confused you and you need clarification.  Gentle questions first followed by statements of "I feel ...; does that make sense to you?"  would help.  Then instead of giving counsel or advice, you are just seeking clarification.  Good luck.  With gentleness and love unfeigned is the path you seek.

[mercyngrace]

Storm Rider, on 30 April 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

This may be one of those times where you create an opportunity to talk the individual and then let the Spirit guide.  The topic may be brought up in a very non-confrontational manner, as a discussion or something that confused you and you need clarification.  Gentle questions first followed by statements of "I feel ...; does that make sense to you?"  would help.  Then instead of giving counsel or advice, you are just seeking clarification.  Good luck.  With gentleness and love unfeigned is the path you seek.

I started a thread about the actual content because I think the issue might be more widespread than just one or two local brethren.  I value your advice Stormrider, if you don't mind, I'd appreciate your comments here: http://www.mormondia...the-lds-church/