Update on Litigation Re: Title IX (BYU and other Religious Schools)

[Dario_M]

True. Biological males in woman's spaces does not always work. That's why men and woman get seperated in church on second hour teachings. 

Edited November 4, 2024 by Dario_M

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Is his hyperbole or do you sincerely think that the church views them the same as those who practice incest?

I don’t know that they view them the same but they are using the same system to red flag member records for both.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

The Church needs to regulate behaviors in its facilities, meetings, etc.  Biological males in women's spaces does not work.

Moreover, the restrictions noted here are based on biology, not subjective perceptions of self, and they apply to everyone.

Except for many intersex people to whom they do not apply.

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I don’t know that they view them the same but they are using the same system to red flag member records for both.

Do they have notes that go along with it?  Because it is not that big of a deal in my view to have a caution flag if it’s used for everything that has additional info in a file.   It is efficient to have one thing that indicates “alert, pay attention here” rather than having several different kinds that someone then has to remember which is which 

Edited November 4, 2024 by Calm

[Teancum]

On 11/2/2024 at 3:45 PM, smac97 said:

October 27: Crucial new court ruling for Christian schools seals a leader’s legacy

Yep.  Intentional checkmate.  The lawsuit was clearly intended to destroy religious schools.

Money well spent, IMO.

This is encouraging to me.  We have far more in common with other religious groups than we tend to think, doctrinal disagreements notwithstanding.

Cool!  

Yeah, I don't really trust the federal government, particularly its many embedded and ideological apparatchiks, to defend codified laws and decisional authorities which protect religious liberty.  We religionists have to look to ourselves to protect it.

"{T}he term sex does not include sexual orientation or gender identity."

Yep.  Arguments to the contrary are pretty bad, and wholly disconnected from biological fact.

"{T}he Title IX {religious} exemption does not violate the Establishment Clause ... {or} the Fifth Amendment’s Equal Protection guarantee."

Beautiful.  Wonderful.  This precedent will, I hope, hold for a long time, and will be a strong bulwark against threats to religious liberty in the United States.

And it looks like the partnership between BYU and CCCU will continue in the future.  From today: New president of Christian college coalition will continue to work with BYU, Latter-day Saints

Good to hear.

Thanks,

-Smac

It is a wonderful thing for "religionists" is that really a word, to be able to use their religious beliefs to discriminate.  And guess what? I am ok with that but not if your discriminating religious college gets one dime of federal money.  Not one darn dime. You already get donations tax free and the donor can deduct the donation against their income tax. So discriminate away but if you want federal money then nope. No go.

[Teancum]

On 11/2/2024 at 8:14 PM, smac97 said:

All the more potent, then, the reality that we are getting past substantial doctrinal disagreements and working together on common goals and interests.

Thanks,

-Smac

Sure. They are happy to work with the church in things like this. They know the church has power and money.  They are not dumb.  But you are if you think they view Mormonism and its adherents as valid Christians. On that front they will stab you in the back.

[smac97]

16 hours ago, Teancum said:

Sure. They are happy to work with the church in things like this. They know the church has power and money.  They are not dumb.  But you are if you think they view Mormonism and its adherents as valid Christians. On that front they will stab you in the back.

"If."

[smac97]

18 hours ago, Teancum said:

It is a wonderful thing for "religionists" is that really a word, to be able to use their religious beliefs to discriminate.

Not so.

18 hours ago, Teancum said:

And guess what? I am ok with that but not if your discriminating religious college gets one dime of federal money. 

Quelle surprise.

18 hours ago, Teancum said:

Not one darn dime. You already get donations tax free and the donor can deduct the donation against their income tax. So discriminate away but if you want federal money then nope. No go.

"If."

Thanks,

-Smac

[Robert F. Smith]

On 11/2/2024 at 8:34 PM, MiserereNobis said:

Do you apply this principle to the civil rights movement and the removal of Jim Crow laws?

In other words, do you think the integration of schools and society, forced by federal coercion, did not ultimately persuade some people to be less racist?

There is the idea that if people are exposed to those considered "other," they will eventually realize that the "other" is a human, too, and will change their perceptions of them. Coerced exposure, as required by the various civil rights laws, might have had this effect on some?

When I was born, there were less than a million Mormons in the USA, and most of those in Utah.  LDS leadership did not participate in the civil rights movement, but some members were even freedom-riders in the deep South.  Some marched with Dr King's SCLC, and the like.  Mormon congregations had never been segregated, even though African Americans were not allowed in any temples.  The only place most Mormons ever even saw an African American was on TV.  Their parochial isolation would soon end.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 11/4/2024 at 12:48 PM, The Nehor said:

Except for many intersex people to whom they do not apply.

There are very few intersex people.

The bigger problem is that Title IX, which was designed to protect women's sports, has now been turned on its head so that women's sports are being destroyed by men masquerading as transwomen.

[Duncan]

13 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

There are very few intersex people.

The bigger problem is that Title IX, which was designed to protect women's sports, has now been turned on its head so that women's sports are being destroyed by men masquerading as transwomen.

how often does that happen though? what sports are in the process of "being destroyed"? I don't know any transwomen in the NHL, NBA, CFL, Yank baseball leagues, soccer teams, the Olympics, what sports are you talking about?

[gmormon]

11 hours ago, smac97 said:

"If."

..."But you are if you think"...

I think he thinks you are not thinking

🙊🙉🙈

[Robert F. Smith]

3 minutes ago, Duncan said:

how often does that happen though? what sports are in the process of "being destroyed"? I don't know any transwomen in the NHL, NBA, CFL, Yank baseball leagues, soccer teams, the Olympics, what sports are you talking about?

Almost any sport from swimming and basketball to volleyball, and several biological women have been badly injured when biological men were competing against them.  We have just seen a wave of game forfeitures with SJSU, and an SJSU coach has even been suspended over it:  Associate head coach Melissa "Batie-Smoose filed a Title IX complaint against the school earlier this week alleging that San Jose State showed favoritism for transgender player Blaire Fleming at the expense of the women on the team."  https://www.outkick.com/sports/suspended-san-jose-state-volleyball-melissa-batie-smoose-fleming .  This problem is not going away.

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Almost any sport from swimming and basketball to volleyball, and several biological women have been badly injured when biological men were competing against them.  We have just seen a wave of game forfeitures with SJSU, and an SJSU coach has even been suspended over it:  Associate head coach Melissa "Batie-Smoose filed a Title IX complaint against the school earlier this week alleging that San Jose State showed favoritism for transgender player Blaire Fleming at the expense of the women on the team."  https://www.outkick.com/sports/suspended-san-jose-state-volleyball-melissa-batie-smoose-fleming .  This problem is not going away.

sounds like it has as it hasn't gone to the professional leagues, so not "destroyed" by any definition, got it

"badly injured" is mild compared to what you can get in some leagues

Edited November 6, 2024 by Duncan

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Mormon congregations had never been segregated, even though African Americans were not allowed in any temples

That’s a pretty big “even though”

[sunstoned]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

That’s a pretty big “even though”

It is an extremely big "even though"

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

There are very few intersex people.

Therefore they don’t matter?

4 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The bigger problem is that Title IX, which was designed to protect women's sports, has now been turned on its head so that women's sports are being destroyed by men masquerading as transwomen.

Women’s sports are doing better than they have ever been. Some of their professional leagues are getting more and more popular. Of course knowing that would require you to actually have an interest in women’s sports as something more than a propaganda generator for your paranoia.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

That’s a pretty big “even though”

Yeah, it really is.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Therefore they don’t matter?

Women’s sports are doing better than they have ever been. Some of their professional leagues are getting more and more popular. Of course knowing that would require you to actually have an interest in women’s sports as something more than a propaganda generator for your paranoia.

Tolerance and fairness are one thing, but the desire to create a Marxist utopia is another -- which entails destroying tolerance and fairness by assuring that everyone gets treated the same, which leads to a society in which everyone is the winner and in which merit and common sense mean nothing.  We now have an American university system in shambles due to that DEI mindset, and children unable to read and do math at grade level.  As with Ai, as described by Yuval Noah Harari, we have created a monster which may eliminate us in furtherance of the very objectives and values which we teach it.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

That’s a pretty big “even though”

Of course, but the big difference was that other so-called "christians" were indeed segregated and used the Bible to justify their treatment of others (slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, etc.).  In Missouri it meant that Mormons were run out of their settlements and homes as abolitionists.  After all, Joseph Smith was ordaining Black men to the priesthood and sending them on missions.  Brother Brigham unwisely adopted a different approach which later came a cropper.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, Duncan said:

sounds like it has as it hasn't gone to the professional leagues, so not "destroyed" by any definition, got it

"badly injured" is mild compared to what you can get in some leagues

The severity of the injuries, including paralysis, is much greater in such unfair matches.  Even among men, we have different weight classes for boxing -- an arena into which some women have unwisely entered.  Being unwilling to admit the great difference between men and women is part of the problem, due to woke ideological commitments.  Fantasy is not reality.

[The Nehor]

43 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Tolerance and fairness are one thing, but the desire to create a Marxist utopia is another -- which entails destroying tolerance and fairness by assuring that everyone gets treated the same, which leads to a society in which everyone is the winner and in which merit and common sense mean nothing.  We now have an American university system in shambles due to that DEI mindset, and children unable to read and do math at grade level.  As with Ai, as described by Yuval Noah Harari, we have created a monster which may eliminate us in furtherance of the very objectives and values which we teach it.

Not treating transgender people as freaks that must be excluded is somehow Marxism?

Just…….no.

[Robert F. Smith]

Just now, The Nehor said:

Not treating transgender people as freaks that must be excluded is somehow Marxism?

Just…….no.

Again, tolerance and fairness should be our objective.  Not granting dominance, as though we must all do penance for some imagined crime.  Dominance by DEI is destroying us all.

[The Nehor]

16 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The severity of the injuries, including paralysis, is much greater in such unfair matches.  Even among men, we have different weight classes for boxing -- an arena into which some women have unwisely entered.  Being unwilling to admit the great difference between men and women is part of the problem, due to woke ideological commitments.  Fantasy is not reality.

This is a mirage created by false propaganda. Professional sporting leagues are developing rules for women and men’s competitions in regards to things like hormone replacement therapy. This is not some vast insurmountable problem that needs propagandists screaming transphobia and inciting lunatics to scream “TRANS” every time they see someone that does not appear feminine enough to them in a sporting event which is what is happening. Transgender people and cis women and girls who don’t look feminine enough to bigots are being harassed and harangued by said bigots. This is what this propaganda is for. You aren’t helping anyone. You are enabling terrible people to be terrible to women and girls.

For the people behind this propaganda this harassment is a feature and not a bug.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Again, tolerance and fairness should be our objective.  Not granting dominance, as though we must all do penance for some imagined crime.  Dominance by DEI is destroying us all.

It is amazing that somehow marginalized communities are cast as ‘dominant’. Marginalized people almost by definition don’t have vast institutional power. This is just “the Jews are a despised minority but are simultaneously actually secretly controlling everyhing” with a new coat of paint. It didn’t make sense then and it doesn’t make sense now.

The education system is in trouble. There are big problems. University funding has been cut to the bone and vast portions of the budget are being pushed away from academic pursuits and to a new class of university administrator. Professors are finding it all but impossible to find steady jobs as most teaching jobs are now temporary which is weakening teaching. At the public school level vast teacher shortages are looming.

You know what is not causing the problem: Transgender people. Now ask yourself why someone wants you to blame marginalized communities. What are they distracting you from by doing this?