Update on Litigation Re: Title IX (BYU and other Religious Schools)

[Duncan]

41 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The severity of the injuries, including paralysis, is much greater in such unfair matches.  Even among men, we have different weight classes for boxing -- an arena into which some women have unwisely entered.  Being unwilling to admit the great difference between men and women is part of the problem, due to woke ideological commitments.  Fantasy is not reality.

in major sports leagues you got that right, "fantasy is not reality", name a transman or woman in the NHL, NBA, etc. it's this right wing propaganda nonsense that it's happening, it's pure fantasy

[Teancum]

23 hours ago, smac97 said:

"If."

Then you know that they will use the church when it suits them but still despise the doctrine and not view the church as a valid Christian denomination?

[Teancum]

22 hours ago, smac97 said:

Not so.

Yes so. Religionist whine and cry all the time about the threat on their religous freedom but it is a smoke screen. Religion has plenty of protection in the US and rightfully so based on our Constitution.  But there are many instances where such seek to impose their will on the populace at large. TH

22 hours ago, smac97 said:

Quelle surprise.

So you think that religious schools should receive federal aid and still be able to discriminate?

22 hours ago, smac97 said:

"If."

Yes if.

22 hours ago, smac97 said:

Thanks,

-Smac

You are not welcome.

[Teancum]

On 11/3/2024 at 2:36 PM, smac97 said:

The Church is not prejudiced against LGBT folks,

Yes it is.

On 11/3/2024 at 2:36 PM, smac97 said:

nor are we excluding them, legally or otherwise.

Oh?  Can a married gay couple attend the temple?  Can a gay couple attending BYU date, hold hands, hug and kiss like a heterosexual couple can with out running into problems from the infamous honor code office?

On 11/3/2024 at 2:36 PM, smac97 said:

Thanks,

-Smac

 

[Teancum]

On 11/4/2024 at 11:17 AM, bluebell said:

Is his hyperbole or do you sincerely think that the church views them the same as those who practice incest?

Well they view them as enough of a threat that they annotate their records just like a podophile.  So yea.

[bluebell]

38 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Well they view them as enough of a threat that they annotate their records just like a podophile.  So yea.

Is the only reason to annotate someone’s file because they are a threat?

Or could there be legitimate reasons that a ward leader would need to know that somebody was transgender, for theological reasons?

[webbles]

4 hours ago, Duncan said:

in major sports leagues you got that right, "fantasy is not reality", name a transman or woman in the NHL, NBA, etc. it's this right wing propaganda nonsense that it's happening, it's pure fantasy

Just to be pedantic, but transwomen can't play in the NHL, NBA, NFL.  Those are professional male sports.  Transmen could but it is rare to see women be able to compete at the same level as men in those professional sports so I find it unlikely a transman would be compete as well.  And there are a few transwomen in professional female sports.  Here's some I found with a little searching:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabienne_Peter_(ice_hockey) - Swiss ice hockey league

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Platt - Canada ice hockey league

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Gómez - Argentina Football (or Soccer)

[Duncan]

45 minutes ago, webbles said:

Just to be pedantic, but transwomen can't play in the NHL, NBA, NFL.  Those are professional male sports.  Transmen could but it is rare to see women be able to compete at the same level as men in those professional sports so I find it unlikely a transman would be compete as well.  And there are a few transwomen in professional female sports.  Here's some I found with a little searching:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabienne_Peter_(ice_hockey) - Swiss ice hockey league

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Platt - Canada ice hockey league

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Gómez - Argentina Football (or Soccer)

that's what i'm saying, none of those leagues were "destroyed" by admitting those players in and as you say trans players cant play in the major leagues

[webbles]

23 minutes ago, Duncan said:

that's what i'm saying, none of those leagues were "destroyed" by admitting those players in and as you say trans players cant play in the major leagues

I don't think I've seen any right-wing propaganda that is saying that NFL, NBA, NHL, etc will be destroyed by allowing transmen into it.  The focus seems to only be on transwomen going into female professional sports and there really aren't a lot of major female leagues.  So the focus seems to be on college teams and olympic competitions.

[Duncan]

20 minutes ago, webbles said:

I don't think I've seen any right-wing propaganda that is saying that NFL, NBA, NHL, etc will be destroyed by allowing transmen into it.  The focus seems to only be on transwomen going into female professional sports and there really aren't a lot of major female leagues.  So the focus seems to be on college teams and olympic competitions.

see robert f. smith's comments, but yes I agree with you

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, webbles said:

Just to be pedantic, but transwomen can't play in the NHL, NBA, NFL.  Those are professional male sports.  Transmen could but it is rare to see women be able to compete at the same level as men in those professional sports so I find it unlikely a transman would be compete as well.  And there are a few transwomen in professional female sports.  Here's some I found with a little searching:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabienne_Peter_(ice_hockey) - Swiss ice hockey league

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Platt - Canada ice hockey league

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Gómez - Argentina Football (or Soccer)

And they are not completely dominating the sport.

[webbles]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

see robert f. smith's comments, but yes I agree with you

Are you this comment:

Quote

The bigger problem is that Title IX, which was designed to protect women's sports, has now been turned on its head so that women's sports are being destroyed by men masquerading as transwomen.

Your reply to that was:

Quote

how often does that happen though? what sports are in the process of "being destroyed"? I don't know any transwomen in the NHL, NBA, CFL, Yank baseball leagues, soccer teams, the Olympics, what sports are you talking about?

I don't see Robert F. Smith saying that men's sports (NHL, NBA, CFL, etc) were being destroyed.  He is talking about women's sports.

[Teancum]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

Is the only reason to annotate someone’s file because they are a threat?

Seems so to me.

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

Or could there be legitimate reasons that a ward leader would need to know that somebody was transgender, for theological reasons?

Feel free to list those out. 

[bluebell]

28 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Seems so to me.

Feel free to list those out. 

Well, the obvious one is that according to doctrine/policy, transmen cannot be ordained. So it would make sense to have an annotation on that person’s record, though or because that person is a threat. 

[smac97]

6 hours ago, Teancum said:

Yes it is.

Nope.

6 hours ago, Teancum said:

Oh?  Can a married gay couple attend the temple? 

Nobody can have a same-sex sealing.  Nobody.  Ipso facto, there is no disparate/discriminatory treatment.

6 hours ago, Teancum said:

Can a gay couple attending BYU date, hold hands, hug and kiss like a heterosexual couple can with out running into problems from the infamous honor code office?

See above.  Nobody can do these things.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

Nobody can have a same-sex sealing.  Nobody.  Ipso facto, there is no disparate/discriminatory treatment.

That is like saying “nobody can breastfeed in public, therefore women aren’t being discriminated against because they can’t breastfeed in public” as if men breastfeeding in public would actually ever happen. (Learn something new and all, I knew men lactated at times, never knew it could be enough to nourish a child; still even if men breastfeeding does apparently happen on rare, rare occasions, I just don’t see a man likely to insist on doing it publicly).

Edited November 7, 2024 by Calm

[smac97]

6 hours ago, Teancum said:

Then you know that they will use the church when it suits them but still despise the doctrine and not view the church as a valid Christian denomination?

I am happy to collaborate with these folks on areas of common interest.  Doctrinal disagreement can be set aside at times.

[smac97]

Just now, Calm said:

That is like saying “nobody can breastfeed in public, therefore women aren’t being discriminated against because they can’t breastfeed in public” as if men breastfeeding in public would actually ever happen.

Well, no.  Men can't breastfeed.  

[Calm]

49 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Well, no.  Men can't breastfeed.  

And those who don’t have same sex attractions won’t be making same sex relationship commitments.

Men could btw if they wanted to pump themselves full of drugs.  It may even happen naturally.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-males-can-lactate/

“The little anthropological evidence documented suggests it is possible. In the 1896 compendium Anomalies and Curiosities of Medicine,George Gould and Walter Pyle catalogue several instances of male nursing being observed. Among them was a South American man, observed by Prussian naturalist Alexander von Humboldt, who subbed as wet nurse after his wife fell ill as well as male missionaries in Brazil that were the sole milk supply for their children because their wives had shriveled breasts. More recently, Agence France-Presse reported a short piece in 2002 on a 38-year-old man in Sri Lanka who nursed his two daughters through their infancy after his wife died during the birth of her second child.”

Edited November 6, 2024 by Calm

[smac97]

6 hours ago, Teancum said:

Yes so. Religionist whine and cry all the time about the threat on their religous freedom but it is a smoke screen. Religion has plenty of protection in the US and rightfully so based on our Constitution.  But there are many instances where such seek to impose their will on the populace at large. TH

Not here.

6 hours ago, Teancum said:

So you think that religious schools should receive federal aid and still be able to discriminate?

There is no discrimination.

6 hours ago, Teancum said:

Yes if.

You are not welcome.

Okay.

[smac97]

Just now, Calm said:

And those who don’t have same sex attractions won’t be making same sex relationship commitments.

They might.  And in any event, it is the behavior that is prohibited, not the person.  Same-sex behavior is not allowed at all, ergo no discriminatory/disparate treatment.

[Doctor Steuss]

29 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Nobody can have a same-sex sealing.  Nobody.  Ipso facto, there is no disparate/discriminatory treatment.

Just so I'm understanding your stance here.  Would say that anti-miscegenation laws weren't discriminatory, since nobody could marry outside their race?

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Well, the obvious one is that according to doctrine/policy, transmen cannot be ordained. So it would make sense to have an annotation on that person’s record, though or because that person is a threat. 

This is the rationale. If they can pass as the gender they are not born as they might try to get ordinances. In theory anyways.

[The Nehor]

27 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Well, no.  Men can't breastfeed.  

Some can. What is it like to make all these categorical statements and then find out you are wrong?

27 minutes ago, smac97 said:

They might.  And in any event, it is the behavior that is prohibited, not the person.  Same-sex behavior is not allowed at all, ergo no discriminatory/disparate treatment.

That is not how anything works.

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, smac97 said:

They might.

Why?  The probability is quite low, don’t you think?  And aren’t you the one who dislikes making laws based on the exceptions, the unusual cases?

Shouldn’t making arguments based on the very rare case of a heterosexual seeking a homosexual marriage be disqualified as useful with that paradigm?