The broad way (being single) leads to death?

[telnetd]

In Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-25, where the context is the law of marriage, why
is footnote b in verse 25 (deaths) referencing both Topical Guide "Death, Spiritual,
First" and "Death, Spiritual, Second"?

"For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and 
continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in
the world neither do ye know me".

"Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths (b); and many there 
are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law".

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang=eng#note25b
 

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, telnetd said:

In Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-25, where the context is the law of marriage, why
is footnote b in verse 25 (deaths) referencing both Topical Guide "Death, Spiritual,
First" and "Death, Spiritual, Second"?

"For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and 
continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in
the world neither do ye know me".

"Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths (b); and many there 
are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law".

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang=eng#note25b
 

This is simply a juxtaposition that contrasts the divine empowerment bestowed upon those exalted husbands and wives who are blessed in eternity to bring forth new human life through celestial procreation, while those who inherit mansions in the lower kingdoms of glory are deprived the blessing of bringing forth offspring because they failed to avail themselves of that supernal blessing while it was still available to them. The reason why life in the lower kingdoms of glory is referred to as “the deaths” is because the reproductive systems of those in the lower kingdoms of glory are “dead” and no longer able to function as originally designed by the Almighty.

Edited July 4, 2024 by teddyaware

[longview]

The first death is physical. Meaning the death of the mortal body at the end of the Second Estate. Being buried in the earthly grave UNTIL called forth to the resurrection of the just OR the unjust.

The second death is spiritual. Meaning the separation of resurrected beings who have inherited lower degrees of glory in lesser kingdoms from the presence of God and His Christ in the highest kingdom.

[blackstrap]

With great power comes great responsibility . Both concepts frighten me. 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, teddyaware said:

This is simply a juxtaposition that contrasts the divine empowerment bestowed upon those exalted husbands and wives who are blessed in eternity to bring forth new human life through celestial procreation, while those who inherit mansions in the lower kingdoms of glory are deprived the blessing of bringing forth offspring because they failed to avail themselves of that supernal blessing while it was still available to them. The reason why life in the lower kingdoms of glory is referred to as “the deaths” is because the reproductive systems of those in the lower kingdoms of glory are “dead” and no longer able to function as originally designed by the Almighty.

Uh-huh.

[Dario_M]

12 hours ago, blackstrap said:

With great power comes great responsibility . Both concepts frighten me. 

Why? In my opinion you don't have to be married. Because nowhere in doctrine 132:19-25 do i read that it is a sin to not choose for marriage. 

We are only humans, with not much power i find. So our responsibility's are not that great i do believe. As long as we don't sin all to much. So don't be afrait please.

Edited July 5, 2024 by Dario_M

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Why? In my opinion you don't have to be married. Because nowhere in doctrine 132:19-25 do i read that it is a sin to not choose for marriage. 

We are only humans, with not much power i find. So our responsibility's are not that great i do believe. As long as we don't sin all to much. So don't be afrait please.

“Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.”

[Dario_M]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

“Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.”

Is that from the doctrines?

[The Nehor]

20 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Is that from the doctrines?

D&C 19:15

[Dario_M]

25 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

D&C 19:15

Aawh i see. We need to fear if we don't go into marriage. 

[telnetd]

19 hours ago, teddyaware said:

This is simply a juxtaposition that contrasts the divine empowerment bestowed upon those exalted husbands and wives who are blessed in eternity to bring forth new human life through celestial procreation, while those who inherit mansions in the lower kingdoms of glory are deprived the blessing of bringing forth offspring because they failed to avail themselves of that supernal blessing while it was still available to them. The reason why life in the lower kingdoms of glory is referred to as “the deaths” is because the reproductive systems of those in the lower kingdoms of glory are “dead” and no longer able to function as originally designed by the Almighty.

Would that then be viewed as Topical Guide "Death, Spiritual, Second"?

Edited July 5, 2024 by telnetd

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Aawh i see. We need to fear if we don't go into marriage. 

Actually that scripture is just a general call to fear to the entire world.

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Actually that scripture is just a general call to fear to the entire world.

To fear the lord you mean?

[manol]

If "perfect love casts out fear", then that which engenders fear (and especially any use of religion to engender fear) comes from the opposite end of the spectrum from perfect love.  In my opinion. 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Dario_M said:

To fear the lord you mean?

Yes, it is a rough verse since in it God isn’t saying all this suffering will come because you didn’t listen. It is God saying He will torture you beyond your ability to imagine if you don’t repent and obey.

[Dario_M]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, it is a rough verse since in it God isn’t saying all this suffering will come because you didn’t listen. It is God saying He will torture you beyond your ability to imagine if you don’t repent and obey.

Hmmm that doesn't sound like a caring and loving God. Where is Gods love then. His love for his childeren.

Edited July 6, 2024 by Dario_M

[ZealouslyStriving]

5 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Hmmm that doesn't sound like a caring and loving God. Where is Gods love then. His love for his childeren.

So, if we live in open rebellion against God and we receive the recompense of our rebellion somehow God is at fault and not loving?

Don't let the antis here fool you with their sophistry. When God speaks of the harsh punishments being referred to, it is in reference to the rebellious, not the average Joe doing the best he knows how with the current info. that he's got.

Like all their lot anciently, those opposed to the truth twist scripture, hoping to lead astray the underinformed. Don't fall for it.

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Hmmm that doesn't sound like a caring and loving God. Where is Gods love then. His love for his childeren.

Also there.

5 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

So, if we live in open rebellion against God and we receive the recompense of our rebellion somehow God is at fault and not loving?

Don't let the antis here fool you with their sophistry. When God speaks of the harsh punishments being referred to, it is in reference to the rebellious, not the average Joe doing the best he knows how with the current info. that he's got.

Like all their lot anciently, those opposed to the truth twist scripture, hoping to lead astray the underinformed. Don't fall for it.

Wow, I got a promotion to anti? And mom said I would never amount to anything.

[ZealouslyStriving]

9 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Also there.

Wow, I got a promotion to anti? And mom said I would never amount to anything.

👨‍🎓👍

[manol]

19 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Hmmm that doesn't sound like a caring and loving God. Where is Gods love then. His love for his childeren.

Dario, for many years I was afraid to question scriptures which seemed to indicate that God has the sort of unforgiving and vengeful characteristics that Jesus clearly taught against in the Gospels.

Two marvelous concepts found in the Book of Mormon came to my rescue:

1.  When a teaching comes along and you need to find out whether it is a good teaching or not, allow it to be planted in your heart like a seed, give it a fair chance, and observe its effects. Does it enlarge your soul? Does it enlighten your understanding? It is delicious to your soul? If so, then it is a good teaching. And if not, then it is not a good teaching. (Alma 32:26-43)

2.  If you need to decide whether someone or something is of God, ask this question: Does this person or teaching invite me to do good and believe in Christ, or to do evil and to deny Christ? Everything that invites you to do good and to believe in Christ is of God. (Moroni 7:10-19)

So now I no longer agonize over teachings that taste awful to my soul.  If that is the case then I do not accept the teaching as I currently understand it, and remain open to the possibility that the teaching can one day be understood in a way that will finally taste delicious to my soul. 

Why might God use language that induces fear? For effect, even if the frightening language is not literally true. When we are deaf to God's gentleness, sometimes he raises his voice to get our attention. See D&C 19:6-12.

Responding to a scripture out of fear is a start.  It is not the end result of the journey home to God, but it is a start, and some people need that.

Will God be angry at us for questioning a scripture or a religious teaching? No, in fact we are supposed to ask God when we don't know! James 1:5. And in the 19th verse of the aforementioned Moroni Chapter 7, Moroni had this to say to believers:

“Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil”

So, we're supposed to be seekers. Jesus' instruction to “seek and you shall find” doesn't expire after a person is baptized.

Edited July 7, 2024 by manol

[Bernard Gui]

On 7/5/2024 at 6:31 PM, The Nehor said:

Yes, it is a rough verse since in it God isn’t saying all this suffering will come because you didn’t listen. It is God saying He will torture you beyond your ability to imagine if you don’t repent and obey.

The Laws of Justice and Mercy apply to everyone. God is bound by both. 

[Bernard Gui]

On 7/6/2024 at 3:38 AM, Dario_M said:

Hmmm that doesn't sound like a caring and loving God. Where is Gods love then. His love for his childeren.

His love is revealed by his mercy.  It is realized through the Atonement of His Son. The Law of Justice is balanced by the Law of Mercy. We can choose which law will apply.

[Dario_M]

On 7/6/2024 at 3:12 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

So, if we live in open rebellion against God and we receive the recompense of our rebellion somehow God is at fault and not loving?

Don't let the antis here fool you with their sophistry. When God speaks of the harsh punishments being referred to, it is in reference to the rebellious, not the average Joe doing the best he knows how with the current info. that he's got.

Like all their lot anciently, those opposed to the truth twist scripture, hoping to lead astray the underinformed. Don't fall for it.

Okay i won't fall for it then

[Dario_M]

On 7/7/2024 at 4:53 AM, manol said:

Dario, for many years I was afraid to question scriptures which seemed to indicate that God has the sort of unforgiving and vengeful characteristics that Jesus clearly taught against in the Gospels.

Two marvelous concepts found in the Book of Mormon came to my rescue:

1.  When a teaching comes along and you need to find out whether it is a good teaching or not, allow it to be planted in your heart like a seed, give it a fair chance, and observe its effects. Does it enlarge your soul? Does it enlighten your understanding? It is delicious to your soul? If so, then it is a good teaching. And if not, then it is not a good teaching. (Alma 32:26-43)

Okay i understand

On 7/7/2024 at 4:53 AM, manol said:

2.  If you need to decide whether someone or something is of God, ask this question: Does this person or teaching invite me to do good and believe in Christ, or to do evil and to deny Christ? Everything that invites you to do good and to believe in Christ is of God. (Moroni 7:10-19)

Yes yesterday in church i experienced that indeed. Especially after the sacrament. 

On 7/7/2024 at 4:53 AM, manol said:

So now I no longer agonize over teachings that taste awful to my soul.  If that is the case then I do not accept the teaching as I currently understand it, and remain open to the possibility that the teaching can one day be understood in a way that will finally taste delicious to my soul. 

Yeah that make sense.

On 7/7/2024 at 4:53 AM, manol said:

Why might God use language that induces fear? For effect, even if the frightening language is not literally true. When we are deaf to God's gentleness, sometimes he raises his voice to get our attention. See D&C 19:6-12.

That feels a bit creepy for me because then it looks a bit as if God is angry. And i fear God a lot. Without him i will go to hell. And i anbsolutely don't wanna go to hell. That's maybey the biggist fear that i have on the moment. 

On 7/7/2024 at 4:53 AM, manol said:

Responding to a scripture out of fear is a start.  It is not the end result of the journey home to God, but it is a start, and some people need that.

Tough love you mean?

On 7/7/2024 at 4:53 AM, manol said:

Will God be angry at us for questioning a scripture or a religious teaching? No, in fact we are supposed to ask God when we don't know! James 1:5. And in the 19th verse of the aforementioned Moroni Chapter 7, Moroni had this to say to believers:

“Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil”

So, we're supposed to be seekers. Jesus' instruction to “seek and you shall find” doesn't expire after a person is baptized.

Yeah that is helpfull to know. Thank you for your long post man. 😊

[Dario_M]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

His love is revealed by his mercy.  It is realized through the Atonement of His Son. The Law of Justice is balanced by the Law of Mercy. We can choose which law will apply.

Yes his mercy. Because Jesus Christ has offered himself for us 2024 years ago. 

I can shoose the right law that god wants for me. But i still sin a lot and i can't get a hold on that. Yesterday for example i walk out from church and feel clean. But that same day i allready start sinning a lot.