The broad way (being single) leads to death?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

If a parent calls and directly asks, "Is my kid identifying opposite gender at school?" should the school have to inform the parent?

I think it should be left up to the school/teacher in most cases, but because there are clueless teachers and manipulative ******* parents with kids that are too good at masking they are suffering (some abused children are always smiling, always happy, outgoing, etc…I have a young relative who was delightful to be around, no one would have had a clue it was protective behaviour rather than someone who was just bright and cheerful and hardworking) I understand why some think the default should be assume the worse and don’t share and if I am being realistic and not idealistic, I don’t disagree having known enough abused kids.

  My ideal would be if a parent calls and the teacher doesn’t have a decent relationship with them already (I was well known by most of my daughter’s teachers as I not only was room mother, I tutored several of the kids and talked with them a lot when picking her up), it would be a good idea say you were busy (never a lie for a teacher) and would get back with them and then to  ask the child if there was an issue at home about it and see their reaction (one of fear or more rebellion or something else that makes it complicated should cause some reluctance, if the kid is “sure, why not”, then the teacher if also feeling no bad vibes, should be able to share imo, but I understand there are teachers who might not take the time to ask the child and just make assumptions based on limited info that it’s okay if they are told it’s up to them, so I get why a law has been made to restrict it). There may be red flags in a parent’s behavior that hint at abuse (more than hints would be reported to CPS and if CPS is involved, the school should direct those enquiries to CPS unless CPS has given them specific instructions to deny out of concern for the child’s safety).  If abuse is known and the kid is still under the abusive parent’s care for some reason, I think they should ask the child what they want the school to do and consult a counselor about it before making the decision.

But realistically, if a parent gets delayed like that, of course they are going to think “the teacher is asking my kid what to say” and then if the abusive type will possibly assume if the teacher says “no, of course not” that they are lying or if the teacher says “I don’t have permission to share that info from your child”, what parent isn’t going to think that would only happen if the kid did have a different gender as why wouldn’t they share if it was no big deal (as most will view being cis-gendered).  So the only truly safe way not to give a parent a reason to rationalize anything is to have a law that prevents any sharing of info.

It’s not a bad thing imo to take the school/teacher out of the emotional/social parent/child relationship as additional participants in relationships can make things complicated as miscommunication and misunderstandings rise dramatically as you move from two involved to three or more unless there is a lot of effort to avoid such…and in my experience most parents are not putting that kind of effort into the teacher-child relationship.  And many teachers don’t want to invest the needed time for engaged, informed communication either.  They aren’t trained to be family counselors and shouldn’t be expected to be and ultimately it is hard enough just trying to keep supplies, fees, events, homework, grades, etc all straight.

I don’t think it’s inappropriate for a teacher to tell the parent asking if they are concerned, they should talk to the child making it clear that with any question, not just this one, a parent should feel comfortable enough to ask and if they are not, maybe that should be the focus of concern and not what pronouns a kid uses and the school could offer the help of a counselor if they have that service available.  However, parents can be easily offended in many cases and a teacher telling them anything about parenting can be the worst…so again a law where the teacher can’t say anything is not a bad idea in my view.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Calm

[ZealouslyStriving]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think it should be left up to the school/teacher to decide.  There may be red flags in a parent’s behavior that hint at abuse (more than hints would be reported I am thinking; if abuse is known and the kid is still under the abusive parent’s care for some reason, I think they should ask the child what they want the school to do and consult a counselor about it before making the decision).

I don’t think it’s inappropriate to tell the parent if they are concerned, they should talk to the child and the school could offer the help of a counselor if they have that service available.

Heck, if the situation is that worrisome why would CPS not be called?? What's a school counselor going to do?

BTW, they are all mandatory reporters.

[manol]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

“Punishments” imo are limited to natural consequences (some of which we may not be aware of) rather than something equivalent to being sent to stand in the corner or wear a dunce cap. 

Agreed.  Imo thought systems which rely on fear for motivation are either incorrect or incomplete or both.  Imo we have nothing to fear, but we do work to do.

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Hierarchies exist because they form through our relationships and actions (you appeal for help from someone because of their capability and relationship, not position) rather than our relationships forming based on hierarchies or our actions being dictated by our assigned position.

Yes!  Imo the pattern is that those who temporarily have more assist those who temporarily have less.  The high school senior is not of any greater inherent worth than the first grader. 

You might enjoy a book called "A Course in Miracles".   I'm partial to the "Original Edition", available online free at the link below.  It consists of three sections: Text, Workbook, and Manual for Teachers.  The Workbook is the practical application of the Text, but you can go straight to the Manual if that is where curiosity leads you. 

https://www.christmind.info/t/acimoe/

 

Edited July 17, 2024 by manol

[Calm]

51 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Heck, if the situation is that worrisome why would CPS not be called?? What's a school counselor going to do?

BTW, they are all mandatory reporters.

See my expanded post…

[Calm]

53 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

BTW, they are all mandatory reporters.

Being a mandatory reporter does not mean one is good at recognizing who is and isn’t abused.  Or at risk of being abused.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, manol said:

might enjoy a book called "A Course in Miracles".   I'm partial to the "Original Edition", available online free at the link below.  It consists of three sections: Text, Workbook, and Manual for Teachers.  The Workbook is the practical application of the Text, but you can go straight to the Manual if that is where curiosity leads you. 

I know of it.  My mom really liked it.  It never resonated for me.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Calm

[manol]

18 hours ago, Calm said:

I know of it.  My mom really liked it.  It never resonated for me.

Sounds good.  If the train doesn't stop at your station, then it's not your train!

[The Nehor]

22 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

If teachers don't give a rats tail and don't tell parents anyways, why did they feel it necessary to make a law prohibiting teachers from letting parents know if their child is doing something that may run afoul of the moral values of the students families?

Are parents able to opt out of said law and request to be informed so they can address the issue as a family? 

I'm guessing not.

No, because there is a real risk that ‘addressing the issue as a family’ will involve abuse, ostracism, or huge amounts of stress.

There is nothing preventing the child from telling the parents directly. That the child does not want to speaks volumes.

[The Nehor]

20 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

If a parent calls and directly asks, "Is my kid identifying opposite gender at school?" should the school have to inform the parent?

No.

[The Nehor]

21 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

It's a morality issue for many families, which is far more important to them than any medical issue- as it has to do with eternity, not just the here and now.

Exactly, which is why the risk of abuse is so high.

Children do need some autonomy.

In 1984 people are rightly horrified by schools that encourage children to report to school officials that their parents deviate from the political party line but have no problem with deputizing the schools to report on kids deviating from the party line.

[The Nehor]

20 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Heck, if the situation is that worrisome why would CPS not be called?? What's a school counselor going to do?

BTW, they are all mandatory reporters.

So the chain of events is that child confesses to trusted teacher that they think they are queer somehow. Child is very worried about parents finding out and how they will react. Parent demands teacher tell if they know anything. Teacher is required to tell parent. Teacher now has to make judgment call as to whether to inform CPS based on kid’s level of fear. Teachers have enough to deal with. Even many queer kids who all but know their parents will be supportive are afraid of what will happen if someone finds out.

So now not only has the child learned that teachers are not safe adults to share things with but parents quickly learn that asking for teachers to rat out a child can lead to a CPS investigation. Oh, and CPS caseload multiplies and virtually every CPS agency can’t handle the caseload they have now and we are in no hurry to actually fund them so they can do their jobs so CPS is further stretched and is probably less able to protect actual abused kids.

I all but guarantee that parents will respond by demanding rules all but forbidding CPS investigations in these cases as CPS investigations are humiliating and many of them will find nothing and there will be lots of people screaming about unjust investigations and many of them will be right. Then those who do actively abuse their kids get cover to hide under.

This serves no one well.

If parents want to know what their child is thinking then PARENT YOUR KIDS! If you need informers you are doing it wrong. Respect the autonomy of children. They are allowed to not share everything with you even if you want them to.

It is also worth noting that many parents will punish or restrict their kids if they are found out in ways that don’t qualify as abuse but are still harmful to the child.

 

These rules help no one. They give an illusion of safety to some parents but don’t actually help even them.