2022 Caring For Those In Need report

[Calm]

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/serve/caring-for-those-in-need?

https://assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/c1/00/c10076f3a7d111ed9d03eeeeac1eb1c62ef513d9/welfare_caring_for_those_in_need_2022_annual_report.pdf

Edited March 23, 2023 by Calm

[LoudmouthMormon]

Truly amazing.  A billion dollars, and 6.3 million volunteer hours.  11k welfare missionaries.   Food security, clean water, vision projects.  439 programs to lift ppl out of poverty and improve their situations, given to 100k folks.  Emergency response projects.  500 addiction recovery groups with weekly meetings.

I hope we can take a moment to just reflect on the amount of good done in the world.

[Teancum]

7 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Truly amazing.  A billion dollars, and 6.3 million volunteer hours.  11k welfare missionaries.   Food security, clean water, vision projects.  439 programs to lift ppl out of poverty and improve their situations, given to 100k folks.  Emergency response projects.  500 addiction recovery groups with weekly meetings.

I hope we can take a moment to just reflect on the amount of good done in the world.

It is very nice.  But given the vast resources the LDS Church owns this is a small drop in the bucket of what it could do.  So I am not that impressed.  It is a nice PR piece though.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Teancum

[LoudmouthMormon]

Whelp, moment over.   It was nice while it lasted.

 

[Teancum]

14 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Whelp, moment over.   It was nice while it lasted.

 

You all can pat yourselves on the back all day long.  High fives as well. Fact is the item @Calmlinked to is a propaganda puff pieces. Yes all those $$ do good.  I am happy about that. I do not dismiss that.  But for the FP to crow about how much the church cares about giving to bless humans, well it is disingenuous. Totally.  The Church sits on $180 billion of non operating assets and it is telling the world "Hey look at us! Look at all the good things we are doing..."   And yes a billion does a lot of good.  And yes Latter day Saints give a lot of personal time to serve others.  But the cash outlay is a pittance compared to what the church has and could do.  And that should offend you.

[Hamilton Porter]

The welfare aspect of the church's mission is often overlooked. It's a big drain on resources and highly successful.

Go to Philly or Detroit and once can see it's easily the biggest function of the church.

[LoudmouthMormon]

Quote

that should offend you.

I remain unoffended, because I remain educated about what "sitting on $180 billion" looks like, and what it doesn't.

OTOH, folks who share opinions like yours, seem perpetually and unalterably clueless about how owning (for example) billions of dollars of productive farmland, blesses people and helps the poor. 

21 minutes ago, Teancum said:

a pittance compared to what the church has and could do

Y'all opinion broken.  Y'all view skewed.  Y'all think the church's vast wealth looks like this, but it doesn't:

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by LoudmouthMormon

[Nofear]

It's never ever enough for those that would be critical of the Church. The Church may have $180 billion in assets but certainly not all of that are liquid assets -- things that can easily be transferred to cash and donated to others. Though, there is at least one example of the Church transferring non-liquid (pun intended) assets.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2023/03/17/we-realize-this-is-just-start

[Teancum]

16 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I remain unoffended, because I remain educated about what "sitting on $180 billion" looks like, and what it doesn't.

If you think a church that claims to be the Church of Jesus Christ sitting on such wealth is quite fine then you are as immoral as they are as far as Christian values goes. If you think patting themselves on the back about giving a billion away compared to their massive wealth than you have priority problems.

16 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

OTOH, folks who share opinions like yours, seem perpetually and unalterably clueless about how owning (for example) billions of dollars of productive farmland, blesses people and helps the poor. 

THe $180 billion is not farming assets. Those are part of the $80 billion of operating assets. I think the church owning land, farming and supplying resources for their welfare program is terrific.  So no Loudmouth, I am not clueless at all. I do commend the church for all these good things.  But they can and should do so much more. This new PR propaganda piece is simply to try to deflect criticism because the massive wealth the church has is becoming more public.  And really it is more directed at the true believers, like you, to hopefully calm down any objections to the massive wealth accumulation the church has.  It is really to say "Hey member, look at all the wonderful things we are doing. And they are wonderful.  But they are not as wonderful compared to what the church could do.

16 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Y'all opinion broken.  Y'all view skewed.  Y'all think the church's vast wealth looks like this, but it doesn't:

 

 

Yea it really does look like that.

[Teancum]

3 hours ago, Nofear said:

It's never ever enough for those that would be critical of the Church. The Church may have $180 billion in assets but certainly not all of that are liquid assets -- things that can easily be transferred to cash and donated to others. Though, there is at least one example of the Church transferring non-liquid (pun intended) assets.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2023/03/17/we-realize-this-is-just-start

Yes but the $180 billion of non operating assets can be liquidated in 3 months. Review this website and then let's talk.

https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/

 

The church is estimated to be worth $250 billion.  $180 billion is non operating assets that are mostly liquid.  You can whine that it is never enough for the "critics."  I will whine that you all are so entrenched in your belief that you cannot be rationally about this.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Teancum

[Teancum]

59 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said:

The welfare aspect of the church's mission is often overlooked. It's a big drain on resources and highly successful.

Go to Philly or Detroit and once can see it's easily the biggest function of the church.

The church does a great job with fast offerings that is funded annually by the contributions of the members.  None comes out of its $180 billion war chest.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Teancum

[Hamilton Porter]

15 minutes ago, Teancum said:

The church does a great job with fast offerings that is funded annually by the contributions of the members.  None comes out of its $180 billion war chest.

That comes from members too. Whiny little bitches you will always have with you.

[Teancum]

21 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said:

That comes from members too.

Of course it does. All the church has comes from the members.  Thus when the leaders say that $ for City Creek Mall does not come from tithing they are lying. Thanks for confirming. 

21 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said:

 

Whiny little bitches you will always have with you.

Umm the comment above seems incoherent. But I guess you are just complaining about my valid criticism. I am not trying to convince deluded true believers.  But rather the lurkers who may be questioning and able to apply skeptical critical thinking skills on such things.  That likely does not include you.

[Nofear]

51 minutes ago, Teancum said:

You can whine that it is never enough for the "critics."  I will whine that you all are so entrenched in your belief that you cannot be rationally about this.

You are welcome to do that, of course. Nothing I can do to stop you. In general, I don't make it a habit of criticizing other individuals or institutions for their supposed lack of humanitarian effort. Except John Dehlin. With his huge income he should be donating some 10% 20% 50% of his income to helping the poor. The stingy jerk.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Nofear

[Teancum]

12 minutes ago, Nofear said:

You are welcome to do that, of course. Nothing I can do to stop you. In general, I don't make it a habit of criticizing other individuals or institutions for their supposed lack of humanitarian effort. Except John Dehlin. With his huge income he should be donating some 10% 20% 50% of his income to helping the poor. The stingy jerk.

Ummm what does Dehlin have to do with this?  But yea you may have a point. When Dehlin demands 10% of one's income in order to get into the place one needs to get to receive ordinances to get to God's highest reward, and when Dehlin demands converts to his cause give 10% before they can join his cause, when he demands 10% of a person's income to be a member in good standing to his group and expects them to meet annually to give a report on their 10% contributions, well then you have a point.  Till then, not so much.

[Nofear]

38 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Ummm what does Dehlin have to do with this?  But yea you may have a point. When Dehlin demands 10% of one's income in order to get into the place one needs to get to receive ordinances to get to God's highest reward, and when Dehlin demands converts to his cause give 10% before they can join his cause, when he demands 10% of a person's income to be a member in good standing to his group and expects them to meet annually to give a report on their 10% contributions, well then you have a point.  Till then, not so much.

He doesn't have anything to do with it. I asked Google's bard who the most prolific poster on this website was, it's first response was John Dehlin. Later when posed the same question it was David Bokovoy with 219 posts. It's most recent response is "I apologize for the error in my previous response. There is no prolific poster on the website mormondialogue.org as it has been inactive since 2019."

10%?. Bah. The Church asks (potentially) everything which we own. Heck, I think the same standard should be applied to the Church as a whole and its businesses. A full 100% should go towards its causes.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Nofear

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, Teancum said:

You all can pat yourselves on the back all day long.  High fives as well. Fact is the item @Calmlinked to is a propaganda puff pieces. Yes all those $$ do good.  I am happy about that. I do not dismiss that.  But for the FP to crow about how much the church cares about giving to bless humans, well it is disingenuous. Totally.  The Church sits on $180 billion of non operating assets and it is telling the world "Hey look at us! Look at all the good things we are doing..."   And yes a billion does a lot of good.  And yes Latter day Saints give a lot of personal time to serve others.  But the cash outlay is a pittance compared to what the church has and could do.  And that should offend you.

It’s interesting that these pieces didn’t start to be released until so many people were complaining about how little the church was doing.

I think in many years past the church legitimately did not want to publish this kind of stuff, but then everybody was getting all up in arms about how they weren’t spending enough money or resources on humanitarian aid and other service. I do think it’s ironic that now that they are publishing it, it’s considered bragging and padding ourselves on the back.

I guess there will always be a reason for somebody to complain.  

[MrShorty]

I don't recall exactly how the poster phrased it, but, over on the SEC fine thread, someone suggested that it would be nice if the church would explain how the cash reserve fits into its overall philosophy/theology/"mission" around its resources.

The opening statement from the First Presidency in this report makes some good statements about the importance of caring for others. Any time I've seen the church respond to anything about its rainy day fund, it has made a statement like, "the church believes in spending less than its income." At some level, those are both worthy causes, but they are also at odds with each other. Each dollar the church brings in can either be sent back out to do good work in the world (including humanitarian work as reported here), or it can be sent to the reserve fund where it is invested for future needs. I wish we (not necessarily we as in MDDB, but we as a church) could have a solid conversation around how we are balancing these two things.

Someone mentioned John Dehlin. I know nothing about his finances, nor do I want to know, but I hope that he is comfortable with how he is choosing to balance his need to save for his future and help people in the present. For that matter, I wish I was more comfortable with my own balance between those two competing causes. I sometimes think if I could lay aside some of my fears of the future, I really could do more to help others in the present. With that said, I hope each of you have thought through your own balance between what you are doing to secure your own future and how you are helping others in the present and are comfortable with the balance you have struck.

From what I can see (including, probably, some misinformation), it feels to me like the church is too biased towards saving for the future. A better conversation around this balance might help assuage my concerns, who knows. So far, it seems like no one really wants to talk about it.

 

[Teancum]

56 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It’s interesting that these pieces didn’t start to be released until so many people were complaining about how little the church was doing.

Well no. These pieces were not released until the whistle blower let us know how many $ EPA had and then now, the SEC issue.  It was not people complaining as it was a few more isolated events. But yea the church likely would have not done more humanitarian aid nor published otherwise. That speaks volumes.

56 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think in many years past the church legitimately did not want to publish this kind of stuff,

Legitimately?  Not sure what that point is. They just did not want anyone knowing how much cash they were raking in and accumulating and how little in comparison they were using to ease human suffering.  Now that the word is out they have increased humanitarian aid and want everyone to know about it.

56 minutes ago, bluebell said:

 

but then everybody was getting all up in arms about how they weren’t spending enough money or resources on humanitarian aid and other service. I do think it’s ironic that now that they are publishing it, it’s considered bragging and padding ourselves on the back.

I guess there will always be a reason for somebody to complain.  

Look your church want everyone to think that now that they do a billion a year in aid (much of that from annual fast offering contributions) and also that the members give all sorts of volunteer time, that they are simply wonderful.  And they are doing this because of criticisms.  And as I have noted, I am very happy with what the Church does.  But to say hip hip hooray about this given the vast assets the church as, and much of these are non operating assets, I am not overly impressed.  Nor should you be. At least if you claim to follow Jesus of Nazareth.

[pogi]

4 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I remain educated about what "sitting on $180 billion" looks like, and what it doesn't.

4 hours ago, Nofear said:

The Church may have $180 billion in assets but certainly not all of that are liquid assets -- things that can easily be transferred to cash and donated to others.

It is my understanding that even after all they spend on humanitarian/welfare services, they still end up transferring around 2 billion annually in "excess tithing" to add on top of the already enormous rainy day fund.  If that is true, we could at least double what we are spending today in humanitarian/welfare work without feeling a thing.  We wouldn't even need to tap into the $180 Billion - but we can at least stop feeding it and use the excess to expand/grow our 4th mission in the church. 

The rainy day fund really doesn't need any more help while earning 8%-12% interest annually.  I just don't understand those priorities of investing more in that account than in supporting/growing the 4th mission of the church. 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by pogi

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

23 hours ago, Teancum said:

It is very nice.  But given the vast resources the LDS Church owns this is a small drop in the bucket of what it could do.  So I am not that impressed.  It is a nice PR piece though.

Or you could maybe reflect on the many Temples, Chapels, and Charities where the Church can have the funds rather than go into debt, like almost every other Church, based on countless studies. Or not, just pass judgment based on what you think is proper? Forget to add, 100,000’s of farm land, and probably 100,000’s in Jackson County and surrounding areas. Also the millions (probably billions) they probably spend to cane for both members, and many times none members,  in food orders, house and car payments, gas bills, etc. When I served in the Bishopric, I wrote hundreds of checks, and co-singed many  mor of those checks. The Church spends multi-Billions every year, let us be thankful they can afford it! If you call it a “drop in a bucket”, it is a very, very large drop, into a smaller bucket. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[webbles]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

It’s interesting that these pieces didn’t start to be released until so many people were complaining about how little the church was doing.

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Well no. These pieces were not released until the whistle blower let us know how many $ EPA had and then now, the SEC issue.  It was not people complaining as it was a few more isolated events. But yea the church likely would have not done more humanitarian aid nor published otherwise. That speaks volumes.

I'm pretty sure these reports are just a re-skinning of the Latter-day Saint Charities reports.  If you go to https://www.latterdaysaintcharities.org/, it redirects you to https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/serve/caring-for-those-in-need?lang=eng&cid=rdb_v_caring.

The Latter-day Saint Charities have been releasing a yearly report since 2013.  You can see the reports at https://web.archive.org/web/20210416225553/https://www.latterdaysaintcharities.org/annual-reports?lang=eng (have to use archive.org since I couldn't find the reports anymore on the church's website).  The last report was 2020 and the first "Caring for Those in Need" report was 2021 so it really does feel like a re-skinning.  And https://www.thechurchnews.com/2022/5/13/23218113/church-2021-annual-report-includes-more-than-3900-humanitarian-projects-in-188-countries compares the new 2021 report to the Charities 2020 report as well.

The church (or at least an arm of it) has been publishing this for almost 10 years.  It has even been posted on the newsroom several years (hard to tell if every year because of the website renaming).  The early reports never mentioned actual dollar amounts, though.  They always focused on hours, number of organizations, etc.  They would have a blurb that would say "donated $X billion since 1985" and you could use that blurb to figure out how much was donated in the previous year, but nothing like the new reports.

So, I wouldn't say that these pieces are being released because people are complaining.  They might be emphasizing certain aspects based on the complaints.

The money amount puzzles me.  In the 2020 report, it says "Since 1985, ... provided over $2.5 billion worth of assistance".  The 2021 report says $906 million for the entire year and 2022 says $1.02 billion.  In two years, the church almost doubles what it has done in almost 40 years.  Either the church has massively increased the amount of humanitarian aid or they have started to group other things into the number.  I hope the former but I've a feeling that it is more the later.  Reason for why I feel that way is because the 2021 and 2022 reports mention that fast offerings is included in the numbers.  I don't see any mention of fast offerings in the 2020 report.

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

Well no. These pieces were not released until the whistle blower let us know how many $ EPA had and then now, the SEC issue.  It was not people complaining as it was a few more isolated events. But yea the church likely would have not done more humanitarian aid nor published otherwise. That speaks volumes.

Legitimately?  Not sure what that point is. They just did not want anyone knowing how much cash they were raking in and accumulating and how little in comparison they were using to ease human suffering.  Now that the word is out they have increased humanitarian aid and want everyone to know about it.

Look your church want everyone to think that now that they do a billion a year in aid (much of that from annual fast offering contributions) and also that the members give all sorts of volunteer time, that they are simply wonderful.  And they are doing this because of criticisms.  And as I have noted, I am very happy with what the Church does.  But to say hip hip hooray about this given the vast assets the church as, and much of these are non operating assets, I am not overly impressed.  Nor should you be. At least if you claim to follow Jesus of Nazareth.

Like I said, I find it ironic how some work so hard to justify complaining about the church.  To the point that they'll even complain when the church is doing good so that they make sure that  no one forgets that complaining is still justified despite the good.

 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, webbles said:

I'm pretty sure these reports are just a re-skinning of the Latter-day Saint Charities reports.  If you go to https://www.latterdaysaintcharities.org/, it redirects you to https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/serve/caring-for-those-in-need?lang=eng&cid=rdb_v_caring.

The Latter-day Saint Charities have been releasing a yearly report since 2013.  You can see the reports at https://web.archive.org/web/20210416225553/https://www.latterdaysaintcharities.org/annual-reports?lang=eng (have to use archive.org since I couldn't find the reports anymore on the church's website).  The last report was 2020 and the first "Caring for Those in Need" report was 2021 so it really does feel like a re-skinning.  And https://www.thechurchnews.com/2022/5/13/23218113/church-2021-annual-report-includes-more-than-3900-humanitarian-projects-in-188-countries compares the new 2021 report to the Charities 2020 report as well.

The church (or at least an arm of it) has been publishing this for almost 10 years.  It has even been posted on the newsroom several years (hard to tell if every year because of the website renaming).  The early reports never mentioned actual dollar amounts, though.  They always focused on hours, number of organizations, etc.  They would have a blurb that would say "donated $X billion since 1985" and you could use that blurb to figure out how much was donated in the previous year, but nothing like the new reports.

So, I wouldn't say that these pieces are being released because people are complaining.  They might be emphasizing certain aspects based on the complaints.

The money amount puzzles me.  In the 2020 report, it says "Since 1985, ... provided over $2.5 billion worth of assistance".  The 2021 report says $906 million for the entire year and 2022 says $1.02 billion.  In two years, the church almost doubles what it has done in almost 40 years.  Either the church has massively increased the amount of humanitarian aid or they have started to group other things into the number.  I hope the former but I've a feeling that it is more the later.  Reason for why I feel that way is because the 2021 and 2022 reports mention that fast offerings is included in the numbers.  I don't see any mention of fast offerings in the 2020 report.

Having them emailed out to the membership seems to be a newer development though.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Nofear said:

most prolific poster on this website was,

I am so, so, so very offended.