BBC Series

[mrmarklin]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64790111

 

BBC seems to be reporting on the Church in the UK.  So far, the article attached is positive.

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, mrmarklin said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64790111

 

BBC seems to be reporting on the Church in the UK.  So far, the article attached is positive.

I just posted this in a thread about this topic in the News forum, but I'll repost my comments here too:

It's kind of "positive", but it's also typical of news articles about the Church.  It starts out by pointing out all the things that missionaries and members of the church aren't supposed to do.  She "had to give up her first name, stop making phone calls.. surrender any time to be on her own... rules ... like a ban on premarital sex and drinking tea and coffee... aren't allowed to stay out late or watch TV or movies", etc. etc.), and the article has only one mention of our belief in Jesus Christ (other than mentioning the full name of the church), where it says "the Church believes in Jesus but is separate from other Christian groups".  Yes, we're weird and different and restrictive (blah blah blah). 

It needs to be reversed.  I like what the Young Men General Presidency said last October about reversing this approach in a Church News podcast, where they talked about the new For the Strength of Youth manual changes:

Quote

Brother Bradley R. Wilcox: And we don’t want our youth to be able to say, “Well, I’m a Latter-day Saint. I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and it means I can’t do this, and I can’t do this, and I can’t do this and.…” We don’t want that. We want young people to say, “Because I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, then I know that I love God and I love my neighbor. My body is sacred. I seek light. The truth makes me free.” If we can have young people starting to explain the way they live by sharing principles, rather than, “I can’t do this and I can’t do that,” then I think we’re one step closer to the vision that Elder Uchtdorf has of being defined by our love for and our discipleship of Jesus Christ.

Brother Ahmad S. Corbitt: As you say that, it makes me think that we are initiating the conversation, not reacting to, remember Elder Gary Stevenson’s conference talk?

Brother Bradley R. Wilcox: “You’re from Utah. You’re a member of the Church.”

Brother Ahmad S. Corbitt: “You’re from Utah, you can’t do this. You do that. You do this.” And someone else is framing the conversation. The “For the Strength of Youth” guide helps the youth frame the conversation.

[Kenngo1969]

There are positive ways to talk about the Law of Chastity, complete chastity before marriage and complete fidelity afterward, the Word of Wisdom, happiness in family life, the Proclamation on the Family, and so on.  But since losing one's virginity, getting drunk (possibly on the same occasion?), having affairs, and so on and so forth are, for many people, the "norm," not doing or not experiencing those things seems like the thing that is "out there" or "weird."

P.S.: Reminds me of the t-shirt that was in vogue a few years ago: "I can't, I'm Mormon."  Today, we might update it to, "I can't, I'm a Latter-day Saint."  If I were going to wear a t-shirt like that, mine would say, "I don't want to, I'm a Latter-day Saint."  But, of course, too many people can't imagine ... "Why would anyone not want to get drunk?", and so on.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Kenngo1969

[Pyreaux]

18 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

There are positive ways to talk about the Law of Chastity, complete chastity before marriage and complete fidelity afterward, the Word of Wisdom, happiness in family life, the Proclamation on the Family, and so on.  But since losing one's virginity, getting drunk (possibly on the same occasion?), having affairs, and so on and so forth are, for many people, the "norm," not doing or not experiencing those things seems like the thing that is "out there" or "weird."

P.S.: Reminds me of the t-shirt that was in vogue a few years ago: "I can't, I'm Mormon."  Today, we might update it to, "I can't, I'm a Latter-day Saint."  If I were going to wear a t-shirt like that, mind would say, "I don't want to, I'm a Latter-day Saint."  But, of course, too many people can't imagine ... "Why would anyone not want to get drunk?", and so on.

Celibate missionaries? Chastity before marriage? Sobriety? Not like other churches indeed. They sound like they are from planet... er, Kobol [the Battlestar Galactica Kolob].

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

There are positive ways to talk about the Law of Chastity, complete chastity before marriage and complete fidelity afterward, the Word of Wisdom, happiness in family life, the Proclamation on the Family, and so on.  But since losing one's virginity, getting drunk (possibly on the same occasion?), having affairs, and so on and so forth are, for many people, the "norm," not doing or not experiencing those things seems like the thing that is "out there" or "weird."

P.S.: Reminds me of the t-shirt that was in vogue a few years ago: "I can't, I'm Mormon."  Today, we might update it too, "I can't, I'm a Latter-day Saint."  If I were going to wear a t-shirt like that, mind would say, "I don't want to, I'm a Latter-day Saint."  But, of course, too many people can't imagine ... "Why would anyone not want to get drunk?", and so on.

Someone I know I told me the weirdest place they ever saw one of those shirts was in a swinger’s club.

[Kenngo1969]

36 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Someone I know I told me the weirdest place they ever saw one of those shirts was in a swinger’s club.

Oh.  I guess some "Mormons" can, then.   I stand corrected!  

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Oh.  I guess some "Mormons" can, then.   I stand corrected!  

They had no idea if the woman was actually a member. “Mormons” do have a weird reputation in the swinger and kink communities. As in, there are more of them there than you might expect. I have no idea what the demographics are but I have heard it from more than a few people.

[Dario_M]

6 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

There are positive ways to talk about the Law of Chastity, complete chastity before marriage .

The law of chastity is a disaster for gay people though. So that is not positive at all. I hope the BBC will point that out as well with their docu. 

For the rest, the rest of the commitments are fine. At least i find that they are fine to me. 

[MiserereNobis]

14 hours ago, InCognitus said:

It's kind of "positive", but it's also typical of news articles about the Church.  It starts out by pointing out all the things that missionaries and members of the church aren't supposed to do.  She "had to give up her first name, stop making phone calls.. surrender any time to be on her own... rules ... like a ban on premarital sex and drinking tea and coffee... aren't allowed to stay out late or watch TV or movies", etc. etc.), and the article has only one mention of our belief in Jesus Christ (other than mentioning the full name of the church), where it says "the Church believes in Jesus but is separate from other Christian groups".  Yes, we're weird and different and restrictive (blah blah blah). 

Could it be that for many years this was the ways LDS portrayed themselves? Growing up, my exposure to the teaching of the LDS church came from LDS friends saying they couldn't do things because it was against their religion (watching certain movies, doing things on Sunday, etc).

[MiserereNobis]

12 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

But since losing one's virginity, getting drunk (possibly on the same occasion?), having affairs, and so on and so forth are, for many people, the "norm," not doing or not experiencing those things seems like the thing that is "out there" or "weird."

It's strange that you split the world into two groups:

1) Normal: Lose your virginity while drunk and then have affairs.

2) Not normal: LDS.

Yes, you say "for many people," but the tenor of your post excludes a middle ground. Perhaps you should hang out with some good folk who *gasp* might have been drunk on occasion? Who perhaps lost their virginity before marriage? Or do such good people not exist?

[MiserereNobis]

12 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Celibate missionaries? Chastity before marriage? Sobriety? Not like other churches indeed.

Perhaps you should attend other churches and spend time with the good folk there?

It's intriguing that in this thread not drinking is being held up next to things like virginity and fidelity in marriage. Didn't Brigham Young run a distillery? Didn't Jesus supply some pretty awesome wine for a huge party? It seems to me that you're elevating the Word of Wisdom a bit too high on the scale of things.

[InCognitus]

11 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Could it be that for many years this was the ways LDS portrayed themselves? Growing up, my exposure to the teaching of the LDS church came from LDS friends saying they couldn't do things because it was against their religion (watching certain movies, doing things on Sunday, etc).

Yes, that's the way many of the youth express themselves.  It always comes across as restrictive (i.e. my parents impose rules on me), when really it is liberating if it is understood to be why we choose do the things we do by following the Savior.  That's what needs to change.  That's why For the Strength of Youth was updated too.

[Kenngo1969]

8 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

It's strange that you split the world into two groups:

1) Normal: Lose your virginity while drunk and then have affairs.

2) Not normal: LDS.

Yes, you say "for many people," but the tenor of your post excludes a middle ground. Perhaps you should hang out with some good folk who *gasp* might have been drunk on occasion? Who perhaps lost their virginity before marriage? Or do such good people not exist?

If you want to judge me based on a misreading of one post while ignoring the tens of thousands of posts I've made on this Board and its predecessors, absolutely, you're free to do that.  There is absolutely nothing I can do to stop you.  Knock yourself out.  Perhaps you should be less concerned with how I see the world and a little more concerned with how the BBC and its viewers see the world.

[Dario_M]

10 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Perhaps you should attend other churches and spend time with the good folk there?

It's intriguing that in this thread not drinking is being held up next to things like virginity and fidelity in marriage. Didn't Brigham Young run a distillery? Didn't Jesus supply some pretty awesome wine for a huge party? It seems to me that you're elevating the Word of Wisdom a bit too high on the scale of things.

Well..still though.. from all the commitments the worst i find is the law of chastity. At least for me. Not drinking alcohol is something i can mannage. But the law of chastity???

If i follow that one i can never have sex. And never merry. I mean...how can you ask something so big and drastic from somebody. 

Well...for me that one is a big byye byye anyway👋 Law of chastity my ***. Big no no for me. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Dario_M

[Kenngo1969]

5 hours ago, Dario_M said:

The law of chastity is a disaster for gay people though. So that is not positive at all. I hope the BBC will point that out as well with their docu. 

For the rest, the rest of the commitments are fine. At least i find that they are fine to me. 

By your logic, the Law of Chastity also is a disaster for straight people who never marry, as well.  Oh, well!   

  

[Dario_M]

14 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

By your logic, the Law of Chastity also is a disaster for straight people who never marry, as well.  Oh, well!   

  

But at least you guys have the choice to merry somebody of the opposite sexs if you wanna have sex again...but still wanna follow the law of chastity with it. 

I can not do that. But i do can merry somebody of the same sexs though. But the church doesn't allow that. 

That is totaly differend then the situation of you straight people. You guys have it more easy. Just merry a female and you have sex and love again. And you still follow the law of chastity. So nobody will judge you. 

I don't have that luxury.

So now i actually get forced to not follow the law of chastity. Not that i don't wanna follow it or so. But i just don't have no other choice. 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Dario_M

[MiserereNobis]

12 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

If you want to judge me based on a misreading of one post while ignoring the tens of thousands of posts I've made on this Board and its predecessors, absolutely, you're free to do that.  There is absolutely nothing I can do to stop you.  Knock yourself out.  Perhaps you should be less concerned with how I see the world and a little more concerned with how the BBC and its viewers see the world.

You're right -- I apologize. I guess I'm feeling grumpy this morning (I need a beer and it's only 10:30! ).

I'm sorry, Ken.

[Kenngo1969]

12 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

You're right -- I apologize. I guess I'm feeling grumpy this morning (I need a beer and it's only 10:30! ).

I'm sorry, Ken.

And, likewise, I apologize if anything I have ever written ever has led you to believe that I don't have enormous respect for my Catholic brothers and sisters.  I believe I have a fairly sizeable body of work to which I may point that demonstrates that that isn't the case.

I would hate to lose you as a[n albeit cyber]friend.  And if we ever have the pleasure of meeting in real life, I'll even buy you a beer, as long as I can have an old-fashioned ginger ale.  (And if, for some reason you doubt my sincerity with respect to that offer [though I don't think you do] I even made that same offer once to a rather strident Protestant critic of the Church of Jesus Christ.)  

Edited March 1, 2023 by Kenngo1969

[Calm]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

Could it be that for many years this was the ways LDS portrayed themselves? Growing up, my exposure to the teaching of the LDS church came from LDS friends saying they couldn't do things because it was against their religion (watching certain movies, doing things on Sunday, etc).

It was the easiest way to describe what was unique about us plus it was in my experience what people wanted most to know. Their eyes started to wander if I started talking about actual beliefs, even if about exaltation, God being an exalted man, etc. 

And in my experience kids (teens and younger) are often more focused on what they can’t do rather than what they can. I remember the worst arguments with my younger sister and mom were over ‘why can they get to do that and I can’t!’  For some reason her being 7 years younger never was a decent enough reason for her. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Dario_M said:

But at least you guys have the choice to merry somebody of the opposite sexs if you wanna have sex again...but still wanna follow the law of chastity with it. 

I can not do that. But i do can merry somebody of the same sexs though. But the church doesn't allow that. 

That is totaly differend then the situation of you straight people. You guys have it more easy. Just merry a female and you have sex and love again. And you still follow the law of chastity. So nobody will judge you. 

I don't have that luxury.

So now i actually get forced to not follow the law of chastity. Not that i don't wanna follow it or so. But i just don't have no other choice. 

 

And I bet it makes you want it more, if you're told to be chaste unless you marry someone of the opposite sex. Lately my husband is being extra good with sweets because of prediabetes and I'm trying to support him but now I crave sweets ten times more than before. So I wonder if that could be a thing when we're told we can't do something. 

[Dario_M]

19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

And I bet it makes you want it more, if you're told to be chaste unless you marry someone of the opposite sex. Lately my husband is being extra good with sweets because of prediabetes and I'm trying to support him but now I crave sweets ten times more than before. So I wonder if that could be a thing when we're told we can't do something. 

Yeah that is indeed what is going on. I'm so happy that you understand me Tacenda. If somebody tells you that you may not do something then you wanna do it ten times more indeed.🍫🍫🍫

But uhm.. i am sorry about your husband though. Must be hard for you as well to support him while you wanna eat sweet things so badly. Diabetes is a nasty disease. My father have also diabetes and it is turture for him because he loves sweets so much. And he can't eat any of it.

If i eat sweet things my bloodsugar drops down really low. Till i get really dizzy and my vision gets blurry. I have this since the corona pandamic. I have no idea why this happends. 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Dario_M

[Tacenda]

Just now, Dario_M said:

Yeah that is indeed what is going on. I'm so happy that you understand me Tacenda. If somebody tells you that you may not do something then you wanna do it ten times more indeed.🍫🍫🍫

But uhm.. i am sorry about your husband though. Must be hard for you as well to support him while you wanna eat sweet things so badly. Diabetes is a nasty deseas. My father have also diabetes and it is turture for him because he loves sweets so much. And he can't eat any of it.

If i eat sweet things my bloodsugar drops down really low. Till i get really dizzy and my fision gets blurry. I have this since the corona pandamic. I have no idea why that happends. 

 

 

 

🥰🤗 You're a kind soul! Strange last few years that seems to have gone by so quickly, and maybe God is trying to tell us something. I think it may be that we each learn our truths and that we each love one another in the true spirit. You spill out that for sure, the church is lucky to have you. I may be emotional now, I'm watching Netflix's show called The New Amsterdam. The one doctor works in the psych unit and he is gay and married and they adopted a Nigerian child, a daughter and are attending a fundraiser for the hospital. The doctor's family backed out of going because they can't accept this doctor's lifestyle. So I have all the feels, plus the show is amazing and has so many wonderful stories. Long answer and didn't mean to write a book.

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

By your logic, the Law of Chastity also is a disaster for straight people who never marry, as well.  Oh, well!   

  

Yes, not as bad but still hard not to define yourself at that point by what you can’t do.

[Dario_M]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

🥰🤗 You're a kind soul! Strange last few years that seems to have gone by so quickly, and maybe God is trying to tell us something. I think it may be that we each learn our truths and that we each love one another in the true spirit. You spill out that for sure, the church is lucky to have you. I may be emotional now, I'm watching Netflix's show called The New Amsterdam. The one doctor works in the psych unit and he is gay and married and they adopted a Nigerian child, a daughter and are attending a fundraiser for the hospital. The doctor's family backed out of going because they can't accept this doctor's lifestyle. So I have all the feels, plus the show is amazing and has so many wonderful stories. Long answer and didn't mean to write a book.

Oh my oh my... thank you so much. You are also so kind dear Tacenda. I also believe in the power of love. And that we need to love one another. That is a powerfull thing.  🥰🥰🥰

I wish that the church here would be more happy to have me here on this ward where i always go. People judge me a bit there. And they don't have any time. 

The nice things you are saying to me right now ...the people in my ward would never say that to me. Portugues people are not that kind. I have figured that out now.

Thank you. For understanding me btw. 🥰

[Pyreaux]

5 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Perhaps you should attend other churches and spend time with the good folk there?

It's intriguing that in this thread not drinking is being held up next to things like virginity and fidelity in marriage. Didn't Brigham Young run a distillery? Didn't Jesus supply some pretty awesome wine for a huge party? It seems to me that you're elevating the Word of Wisdom a bit too high on the scale of things.

I'm sorry, I was not flexing, I was trying to mock the BBC writing. When the BBC list factoids that missionaries can't do, what might be strange to their "normal" audience, next saying we're different from other Christians, with no follow up, probably without intention, it seems like the LDS+missionary rules are how we differ from other churches. Catholics have celibacy, Presbyterians don't drink. Sarcastically saying it's weird, I was saying it shouldn't be too "weird" to religious people. A still small voice tried to tell me not to, I didn't listen or know why, now I do.