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Trib Article: BYU faculty members urged to align their teaching, research better with LDS tenets


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Posted
14 hours ago, Lemuel said:

They say the impetus for this is that many students are losing their faith, going inactive after graduation.  The cause obviously can't be the brethren, so it must be the faculty, hence the push against the faculty.

Can You clarify your point that I bolded above please?

Posted
21 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

Was not aware that BYU runs faculty by GA's for approval. Is that elsewhere documented?

I didn't realize this was controversial--all tenure track faculty interview with a GA 70 as part of the process and the Board (i.e. the 12) approve all TT hires.  It's not a secret. My BYU faculty friends have told me about the process--the GAs even ask about past transgressions previously resolved with priesthood leaders these days (last 10 years or so).

 

Here's what I found on google:

https://www.deseret.com/1994/1/26/19088615/byu-board-adds-step-to-the-hiring-process

Posted
15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I would argue it probably isn’t either of them.

Probably so--it's most likely our changing world.  But as they say in sports, it's easier to fire the coach than fire all the players, so the coach has to go.  

That was a dumb analogy on my part, but I'm gonna leave it anyway.

Posted
8 hours ago, Teancum said:

Can You clarify your point that I bolded above please?

Well, can you point to even one mistake the brethren have made?  No?  Well then they aren't making the mistakes here either.😉

Posted
4 minutes ago, Lemuel said:

Well, can you point to even one mistake the brethren have made?  No?  Well then they aren't making the mistakes here either.😉

I can point to a lot of mistakes the GAs have made.

Posted
27 minutes ago, Lemuel said:

I didn't realize this was controversial--all tenure track faculty interview with a GA 70 as part of the process and the Board (i.e. the 12) approve all TT hires.  It's not a secret. My BYU faculty friends have told me about the process--the GAs even ask about past transgressions previously resolved with priesthood leaders these days (last 10 years or so).

 

Here's what I found on google:

https://www.deseret.com/1994/1/26/19088615/byu-board-adds-step-to-the-hiring-process

Fair enough.

Posted

It probably is mostly due to our changing world, no doubt. And in such a changing world, old approaches may no longer reflect the new realities.

Good on BYU.

Posted
8 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

Ok. 

I'm gonna be honest, I don't know what counts as a "good professor" under the circumstances. Prolific publishers and big grant-getters? If that's the metric, I'm fine with losing it: I think the "publications=products" model of the modern academy makes the academy a font of systemic social instability. Getting some alternative models would be great, models which don't produce the "permanent revolution" like digestion produces feces.

Losing good teachers, on the other hand, could be a problem. I expect, however, that if there are such stark negative consequences, words will be had with the respective bishops or such checks and balances will be put in place. 

And, above all, I reject the mythical independence of the mythological "university" or "academia." It was never independent; however, the sorts of decentralized applications of pressure which prevail in the academy are easier to disguise. I'm talking about the social-reputational credit system, the conditions attached to grant funding, publishing gatekeeping, and the threat of reprisals based on administrative/student disapproval which certainly already exist (see @Bernard Gui's comment.) So appeals to "academic independence" won't get much traction with me. 

Yeah, "academic freedom" in the Anglophone West is more or less a meme at this point; the kind that isn't supposed to be funny but is. The "sanctity" of the academia has been thoroughly desecrated by a hundred administrative genuflections before a thousand angry Tweets. Thank heavens, the mask needed to slip at some point. 

The trick here is that the value of the degree to the students (rankings & prestige) is tied to the research productivity of the faculty.  It's the difference between BYU and BYU-I, and then better students sort themselves into better schools.

Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, california boy said:

how are they going to handle diverse challenging ideas in the real world once they leave the baby blanket BYU insists on wrapping them in?

I think there are many people who live their whole lives happily without addressing or even meeting those challenging ideas.  The church is so all encompassing that truly there are such people.  They are happy.  Good for them ❤️ BYU is a perfect match. 

Edited by MustardSeed
Posted
1 hour ago, Lemuel said:

The trick here is that the value of the degree to the students (rankings & prestige) is tied to the research productivity of the faculty.  It's the difference between BYU and BYU-I, and then better students sort themselves into better schools.

What a pity. That trashy situation isn't ever gonna change if there aren't dissenters.

Posted (edited)

Jonathan Haidt has resigned from the Society for Personality and Social Psychology (SPSP) when he was asked to violate my quasi-fiduciary duty to the truth.

"I was surprised to learn about a new rule: In order to present research at the conference, all social psychologists are now required to submit a statement explaining “whether and how this submission advances the equity, inclusion, and anti-racism goals of SPSP.” Our research proposal would be evaluated on older criteria of scientific merit, along with this new criterion." (https://heterodoxacademy.org/blog/the-two-fiduciary-duties-of-professors/)

It can well be argued that BYU is doing a similar thing. In his opinion an institution can really only have one telos, say, "truth" or "social justice", but not both. On the other hand, if we accept Joseph Smith's assertion, the two positions do not conflict.

“Mormonism is truth; and every man who embraces it feels himself at liberty to embrace every truth: consequently the shackles of superstition, bigotry, ignorance, and priestcraft, fall at once from his neck; and his eyes are opened to see the truth, and truth greatly prevails over priestcraft. … Mormonism is truth, in other words the doctrine of the Latter-day Saints, is truth. … The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or without being circumscribed or prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men, or by the dominations of one another, when that truth is clearly demonstrated to our minds, and we have the highest degree of evidence of the same.” -- Joseph Smith

I personally think it better to simply let the professors pursue truth and to the extent that they do so, it will align with the Gospel (and potentially further refine our sometimes-not-so-quite-great understanding of the Gospel). The point being is let us not use an external criteria (correct or not) for truth but to simply let it be organically validated by external criteria that are true (e.g. the Gospel). Those that argue social justice might well say the same thing. Let reality prove it and not dogma (irrespective of the correctness of the dogma).

Edited by Nofear
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, california boy said:

 

My degree at BYU was a double major, Art Direction and Graphic Design with a minor in Photography.  I can tell you flat out the best instructors I had at BYU were professionals out there working in the industry that BYU actively recruited to come and teach.  My favorite teacher, before joining the faculty, was an Art Director at Capitol Records.  He brought real world experience with him when he commented to teach at BYU.  He also took a substantial pay cut because he wanted to support the Church.  I honestly don't think he would have considered the position with the kind of nonsense that is being asked of current faculty.  Why would he?  He had a successful career.  He didn't need to teach.

Another was one of the principle designers for a very high end cutting edge furniture company.  He was also recruited by the staff at BYU and came with real world knowledge of what was actually happening in the cutting design of furniture design.  He opened my eyes up to many aspects of product design because of that knowledge.  He came because BYU promised him that he could build his own department and do it on his terms.  I could tell you a few others that were similarly hired.  

There were also teachers that had graduated to BYU when my dad went there and then got hired to teach. It was like they were trapped in the design world of the 50's.  Church academia was the only world they had ever been exposed to.  Some of the assignments we were required to do was such a throwback to how things had been done 20 years earlier.  Yeah I am sure he would have agreed to any kinds of requirements BYU would impose to keep teaching.  Honestly, he was trapped.  It was all he could do.  While this might not be true in all fields of study, in a lot of fields, what was taught even 5 years ago, may no longer be relevant. A top university needs top candidates with real world experience in many different departments.

What I got most out of my University experience is being exposed to different ideas, different possibilities, even different career paths that I, at the time had no idea were even out there.  I started out thinking I could teach art because my father was in education.  I left with a degree that allowed me to eventually start my own advertising agency.  Without those key faculty members that showed me cutting edge design and pushed me to be prepared in that field, I would have had a far different career.  

I hate seeing what BYU is doing.  I believe it is going to definitely have a chilling affect on bringing a diverse faculty, one that I was able to experience.  Mediocre teachers that don't make waves are easy to find.  The ones that you have to work hard to attract are the ones that make a university a launching pad for successful graduates.  They are also the ones least likely to put up with this kind on nonsense.

I also want to say one more thing.  If a student can't handle a diverse opinion about religious beliefs and needs to be so closely channeled so that they never hear anything that will challenge their beliefs at a church school for heavens sake, how are they going to handle diverse challenging ideas in the real world once they leave the baby blanket BYU insists on wrapping them in?

Our son Artisticosso was a graphic design major at BYU.  When were you there?

67 of my 76 years have been spent handling diverse challenging ideas in the real world. Two years in Central America was a graduate course in handling challenging ideas. Only 5.5 years at BYU (not counting summers at home) but that comfy baby blanket prepared me well for the other 67.

Seems to me a lot of BYU grads are quite successful. 

I think you would agree that giving belligerent students the power to remove professors they don’t want to hear and and like-minded cowardly administrators acceding to their demands is a catastrophic development in education.

I know excellent teachers at BYU who fill your requirements but chose to go there because they wanted to help the cause of Zion. One personal friend was internationally-known physicist Dr. B. Kent Harrison who went from a ditethe Los Alamos National Laboratory to BYU for that very reason. Those are the best for the BYU teaching force.

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/testimonies/scholars/b-kent-harrison

Edited by Bernard Gui
Posted
Just now, Nofear said:

Jonathan Haidt has resigned from the Society for Personality and Social Psychology (SPSP) when he was asked to violate my quasi-fiduciary duty to the truth.

"I was surprised to learn about a new rule: In order to present research at the conference, all social psychologists are now required to submit a statement explaining “whether and how this submission advances the equity, inclusion, and anti-racism goals of SPSP.” Our research proposal would be evaluated on older criteria of scientific merit, along with this new criterion." (https://heterodoxacademy.org/blog/the-two-fiduciary-duties-of-professors/)

It can well be argued that BYU is doing a similar thing. In his opinion an institution can really only have one telos, say, "truth" or "social justice", but not both. On the other hand, if we accept Joseph Smith's assertion, the two positions do not conflict.

“Mormonism is truth; and every man who embraces it feels himself at liberty to embrace every truth: consequently the shackles of superstition, bigotry, ignorance, and priestcraft, fall at once from his neck; and his eyes are opened to see the truth, and truth greatly prevails over priestcraft. … Mormonism is truth, in other words the doctrine of the Latter-day Saints, is truth. … The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or without being circumscribed or prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men, or by the dominations of one another, when that truth is clearly demonstrated to our minds, and we have the highest degree of evidence of the same.” -- Joseph Smith

I personally think it better to simply let the professors pursue truth and to the extent that they do so, it will align with the Gospel (and potentially further refine our sometimes-not-so-quite-great understanding of the Gospel). The point being is let us not use an external criteria (correct or not) for truth but simply let it be organically be validated external criteria that are true (e.g. the Gospel). Those that argue social justice might well say the same thing. Let reality prove it and not dogma (irrespective of the correctness of the dogma).

Yes- If we assume the church is The Truth, then all truth will lead to the church. Makes sense to me. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Bernard Gui said:

Seems to me a lot of BYU grads are quite successful. 

I’d count myself as one of the successes.  Both my under and post grad degrees were from BYU. 
 

It was a solid education.  It was cheaper than attending elsewhere.  It was easy to find social experiences sans drugs alcohol and sexpectations.  
 

I didn’t have any idea that anything else was even optional (morally).  I am much more clear now.  There are many facets to my work that suffer because of some of the limits of my religious based education.  

Posted

 

34 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

Forgive me, I don't think having a temple recommend is too much to ask of BYU professors. And asking them to explore their topics with an eye to highlighting how Latter-day Saint thought interacts with those topics is not too much to ask either. I don't buy that narrative.  

I don't think. holding a temple recommend is the problem here.  I think it is more leadership roulette when a bishop or other Church leader who has little idea about what you do for a living has control over whether you continue your employment.

 

34 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

Nor, frankly, do I buy the narrative that this indicates that BYU is planning to wrap students in a baby blanket. On the contrary, I see a call to boldly confront the world as it is, to chart the ragged edge where Latter-day Saint thought meets the chaotic world, to stake out forward positions in the great rhetorical battles of our time. The idea that this is somehow a retrenchment is an artifact of a narrative which takes our defeat for granted. 

Isn't the whole goal of this new push to tighten up on anything other than a very narrowly defined Church narrative about what is discussed by BYU faculty?

 

 

Posted
14 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Our son Artisticosso was a graphic design major at BYU.  When were you there?

67 of my 76 years have been spent handling diverse challenging ideas in the real world. Two years in Central America was a graduate course in handling challenging ideas. Only 5.5 years at BYU (not counting summers at home) but that comfy baby blanket prepared me well for the other 67.

Seems to me a lot of BYU grads are quite successful. 

I know excellent teachers at BYU who fill your requirements but chose to go there because they wanted to help the cause of Zion. One was internationally-known astro-physicist B. Kent Harrison who went from the Los Alamos National Laboratory to BYU for that very reason. Those are the best for the BYU teaching force.

I graduated in 1974

I would agree that there are a lot of BYU grands that are quite successful, me being one of them.

The professors I mentioned made the same choice to step away from very successful careers, take a cut in pay because they too wanted to help the cause of Zion.  But part of the reason why they were willing to make such a commitment is because BYU promised them a pretty free hand on how they designed the courses they taught and what part of their real world experience they could bring to those students.  I am just not sure they would be willing to walk away from their successful careers if they thought some bishop could remove them from their tenure based on the church leaders judgement of what they believed.

In the end, my opinion doesn't matter.  And only time will tell how this policy affects the faculty and teaching caliber at BYU.  We will also see if it changes the students involvement at BYU and the Church for better or for worse.  I am pretty skeptical that the vast majority of young members leaving the Church has anything to do with something some professor said in class one day.  But hey, maybe Church leaders have pinpointed the exact cause of so many youth leaving.

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