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David Archuleta “Stepping Back” from Church


jkwilliams

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He's back in the news.

Archuleta says crowd members left his Christmas Concert after he spoke out about queer identity

While Archuleta didn't reveal the name of the person who sent the email, its sender accused him of ruining fans' "Christmas experience" and depriving them of a "Christmas miracle" when he opened up about his identity.

"I do not believe [the] concert was the setting for that to happen," they wrote. "We have some very upset patrons that I will [be] dealing with today. I would hope that in the remaining concerts that would not be allowed and just allow them to have an awesome Christmas experience,"

As David explained, the tour hasn't been the "easiest" for him after his journey of self-acceptance, but there are fans who stayed in the audience with him who he feels "need to know they're not alone."

"I hope you can see why I open up about it. It's healing," he added. "And helps me not be ashamed of who I am like I was for many years. Thinking I needed to change me. And if I didn't change me I was a failure. thank you to the other hundreds who stayed last night to listen. I know it's not a topic usually talked about and it may be uncomfortable for some. Even if it's a journey that you may not fully understand, It means the world to me that you still were willing to listen. no, I don't think sharing my journey ruins any Christmas spirit unless you allow your own misconceptions to ruin it yourself."

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On 11/29/2022 at 11:06 PM, MustardSeed said:

At what number of children does someone meet the requirements of that commandment?

Oh, let's say 5. That means that I've succeeded! I've helped fill five bassinets.

Just kidding! I can't say. Who am I to make the rules? Plenty of people have been born and died before they ever had a chance to try to fulfill it. I once knew a woman whose fiancée died in WW1 and she never married, though if he had survived she would have doubtless had children with him. That's what they did back in those days. But she remained loyal to her dead beloved and never married out of that loyalty. She joined the Church sometime in the 1960s, and one of the things that buoyed her up was that no blessing would be withheld from those who had a sincere desire to be obedient, but circumstances beyond their control prevented the actual execution of that obedience.

On 11/29/2022 at 11:06 PM, MustardSeed said:

If David adopts is he all set?  If I, a woman, say I am unable to have children because of the biological limits put on me naturally am I excused? If David uses an egg donor has he kept the commandment? 
I’m being argumentative.  No need to engage.  I should say, I disagree with the hook you’re hanging your hat on. 

I kind of do need to engage, with my apologies. I hope you don't mind.

You're welcome to disagree and to be argumentative. If we didn't have argumentation, how would we engage in genuine discourse? But I know where you're coming from, and you see me as trying to assert my authority, to mansplain, I suppose. But it turns out I don't have any authority. The authority resides with God and His prophets.  

See my previous paragraph. I say again, if you have but a desire to fulfill the commandment, but circumstances prevent it, then you've obeyed it. If you rebel against the commandment, then you have disobeyed it. I assume that David does desire to fulfill the commandment, but for reasons beyond his control he cannot. In that case, the blessings will not be withheld from him. How Father does it, I don't know, but I trust Him and His promises.

Let me try to explain further. Gay or not, David needs a woman to reach his highest potential. He can be a recipient of salvation, but will not be exalted without one. There is no revealed pathway to exaltation without both male and female. David may be righteous enough to enter the Celestial Kingdom, but without a woman he will be held to the lower two of the three degrees of that kingdom. He needs a woman to attain the highest, and by the same token a woman needs a man for the same purpose. And this is not by my authority, hat or no hat. (DC 131:1-4)

In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.  He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

Even that old NT misogynist, Paul, acknowledged the necessity of both sexes in 1 Cor 11:11 - "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord."

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  • 3 weeks later...

@Stargazer She should have married again with a new guy from next door i find. Why has she wasted her whole life? I mean..  it is good to be loyal don't get me wrong. But that can also get a bit to far. 

Oh my.. what are people sometimes doing to themselves.

 

Btw the last few thinks you typed in your post are so crazy that i just wanna stick some acid in my eyes. I mean really? How do you come up with those crazy ideas. If a man don't wanna marry a woman because of whatever reason he will never get to the celestial kingdom (heaven)?? I have read the whole book of mormon but uhm... i must have missed that one then.

I hope you can understand that a gay male will never be happy in a relationship with a female. And later on marrage with her? None of the 2 will be happy actually. The marrage will colapse sooner or later. That's just bound to happen. Besides from that you also just basically lie to that person. And you may not lie because that is against the commitments . One of the 10 commitments. I am sure you would know them.

I am gay and i will never ever marry a woman. Never in my whole life. And for you to say that because of my choice that i don't wanna marry a woman i will never get to the celestial kingdom (heaven) is kinda crazy and rude.

I am sure you would understand??

Now i think back i can remember that my missionaris told me that i really need to marry a woman one day in the futhure. Even tough he knew that i whas gay. I said NO dont wanna do that. He whas keep on going on about it till the point that it started to annoyed me a bit. Now i know why he did that. All tough he never told me that i would never go to the celestial kingdom if i dont wanna marry. Propbably because it is so absurd offcourse. And even he couldn't get those words out from his lips. 

 

Edited by Dario_M
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While one can be in the Celestial Kingdom and be single, to be exalted, to become like God, one needs to be married, man to woman/woman to man. This is not in the Book of Mormon, but in the Doctrine and Covenants. 
 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/131?lang=eng
 

“In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.”

If you haven’t read this yet, this presents the Church’s view of family and marriage (at least the ideal version):

 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world?lang=eng

 

Edited by Calm
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18 hours ago, Dario_M said:

@Stargazer She should have married again with a new guy from next door i find. Why has she wasted her whole life? I mean..  it is good to be loyal don't get me wrong. But that can also get a bit to far. 

Oh my.. what are people sometimes doing to themselves.

Yes, oh my. I met this lady when I was serving as a missionary in Germany. She had been a member of the church for only about ten years or so.

You do realize that you're talking about a person whose fiancee died over a hundred years ago in a war, and who lived in a completely different culture and country. She was in her 80s when I met her back in 1973, and was in poor health at that time. I heard from an old missionary companion that she had passed away a couple of years after that. I think I should not wish to be her judge in this matter. Besides, it wasn't that she rejected marriage itself, but that she considered her love for her fiancee to transcend this life, but having no revealed information as to the eternity of the marriage covenant (because her church didn't teach it and didn't believe in it), she chose to set herself apart and serve people as a nurse. She was looking forward to the time when she would join with her fiancee after this life, and believed she would be together with him, even if her church didn't teach it.

She was one of the most spiritual persons I have ever met, and was a true disciple of Christ.

18 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Btw the last few thinks you typed in your post are so crazy that i just wanna stick some acid in my eyes. I mean really? How do you come up with those crazy ideas. If a man don't wanna marry a woman because of whatever reason he will never get to the celestial kingdom (heaven)?? I have read the whole book of mormon but uhm... i must have missed that one then.

You may need to do some more studying. I think Calm has provided some references for you in her post above.

In short, a man (or for that matter, a woman) who isn't sealed in the temple for eternity with a member of the opposite sex can certainly be worthy of the Celestial Kingdom. But not the highest degree, which requires marriage.

18 hours ago, Dario_M said:

I hope you can understand that a gay male will never be happy in a relationship with a female. And later on marrage with her? None of the 2 will be happy actually. The marrage will colapse sooner or later. That's just bound to happen. Besides from that you also just basically lie to that person. And you may not lie because that is against the commitments . One of the 10 commitments. I am sure you would know them.

I am gay and i will never ever marry a woman. Never in my whole life. And for you to say that because of my choice that i don't wanna marry a woman i will never get to the celestial kingdom (heaven) is kinda crazy and rude.

I am sure you would understand??

I understand you perfectly.

But it's not rude if it's true. And as I said above, you can get to the celestial kingdom without marriage to a woman. And you're correct that a marriage between a gay person and a person of the opposite sex is likely to be a very difficult matter. It's not impossible, however, I am not going to suggest that you try it!  

18 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Now i think back i can remember that my missionaris told me that i really need to marry a woman one day in the futhure. Even tough he knew that i whas gay. I said NO dont wanna do that. He whas keep on going on about it till the point that it started to annoyed me a bit. Now i know why he did that. All tough he never told me that i would never go to the celestial kingdom if i dont wanna marry. Propbably because it is so absurd offcourse. And even he couldn't get those words out from his lips. 

If your missionaries told you that you can't go to the celestial kingdom without being married to a woman, they were incorrect. But those young missionaries should be forgiven because their knowledge of things is limited due to their inexperience. Yours is a situation they don't often encounter.

You are very new in the gospel, and your knowledge is also limited. And not just you! We are all limited beings here in mortality, and of limited understanding. We improve ourselves in this only with time and effort. Gradually, as you study and pray, you will gain in understanding of all these things. But it won't happen overnight. 

This discussion forum might not be the best place for a discussion of this nature. There are a few posters here who are gay, but they are not members of the church, even if they used to be. Their perspectives may not be what you need. I'm going to suggest that you check out the official church website on same-sex attraction. Here are some suggestions:

All the best to you!

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Calm said:

While one can be in the Celestial Kingdom and be single, to be exalted, to become like God, one needs to be married, man to woman/woman to man. This is not in the Book of Mormon, but in the Doctrine and Covenants. 
 

 

Why is this not in the book of Mormon actually? That information should be there in that book it would be a lot more easy for me too get all this information. 

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58 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Yes, oh my. I met this lady when I was serving as a missionary in Germany. She had been a member of the church for only about ten years or so.

You do realize that you're talking about a person whose fiancee died over a hundred years ago in a war, and who lived in a completely different culture and country. She was in her 80s when I met her back in 1973, and was in poor health at that time. I heard from an old missionary companion that she had passed away a couple of years after that. 

 

Bless her soul. 🙏💜✝️

58 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

 

You may need to do some more studying. I think Calm has provided some references for you in her post above.

I am a bit tired on the moment. And dizzy also. 

58 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

In short, a man (or for that matter, a woman) who isn't sealed in the temple for eternity with a member of the opposite sex can certainly be worthy of the Celestial Kingdom. But not the highest degree, which requires marriage.

Well...i am not agree with that and also don't believe that. Even my missionaries did not told me this. And they know this for sure. But even they don't buy this nonsens i think (and i hope)

 

58 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I understand you perfectly.

But it's not rude if it's true. And as I said above, you can get to the celestial kingdom without marriage to a woman. And you're correct that a marriage between a gay person and a person of the opposite sex is likely to be a very difficult matter. It's not impossible, however, I am not going to suggest that you try it!  

 

No that would be a bad idea. 

58 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

If your missionaries told you that you can't go to the celestial kingdom without being married to a woman, they were incorrect. But those young missionaries should be forgiven because their knowledge of things is limited due to their inexperience. Yours is a situation they don't often encounter.

I beg your pardon? They know a lot about the gospel. I think that they just didn't wanna tell me all of this information. Because they know they would upset me. 

58 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

You are very new in the gospel, and your knowledge is also limited. And not just you! We are all limited beings here in mortality, and of limited understanding. We improve ourselves in this only with time and effort. Gradually, as you study and pray, you will gain in understanding of all these things. But it won't happen overnight. 

Okay.

58 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

This discussion forum might not be the best place for a discussion of this nature. There are a few posters here who are gay, but they are not members of the church, even if they used to be. Their perspectives may not be what you need. I'm going to suggest that you check out the official church website on same-sex attraction. Here are some suggestions:

But i don't wanna marry i woman. Please.

The law of chastity i allready do.  Mostely. 

58 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

All the best to you!

 

 

 

All best to you to my lord Stargazer. 🙏🙏🙏

Edited by Dario_M
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1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Well...i am not agree with that and also don't believe that. Even my missionaries did not told me this. And they know this for sure. But even they don't buy this nonsens i think (and i hope)

Young, full-time missionaries have a job to do, which doesn't include digging into the deepest doctrine with people who are unfamiliar with the church. Their job is to teach enough of the doctrine to enable their investigators to have enough information to seek a testimony of the Gospel, Jesus Christ, and so on, through prayer, so that the investigator can acquire a desire in him- (or her-) self to be baptized. 

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

...

I beg your pardon? They know a lot about the gospel. I think that they just didn't wanna tell me all of this information. Because they know they would upset me. 

The standard course of study that the missionaries put their investigators through does not routinely cover what might be called "advanced" topics. This is such a topic. Your missionaries were definitely worried about upsetting you, but tried to prepare you for what you might eventually learn for yourself.

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

But i don't wanna marry i woman. Please.

You don't have to, fortunately. In your situation, I would say you are excused from it, unless the situation changes. And I have no idea how that might happen. 

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

The law of chastity i allready do.  Mostely. 

All best to you to my lord Stargazer. 🙏🙏🙏

And Merry Christmas to you and your kin!

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2 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Why is this not in the book of Mormon actually? That information should be there in that book it would be a lot more easy for me too get all this information. 

We believe in continuing revelation. The Book of Mormon dealt with the issues of their times and the knowledge they had (though they probably knew more, could be elsewhere in the plates the Book of Mormon came from, but was not translated by Joseph Smith). Quite a few of those issues are relevant to every age (inappropriate pride/vanity/greed, for example).  
 

The Doctrine and Covenants, which is part of the canon and just as important in the Gospel, is the scripture for the modern Church that builds on the Bible and Book of Mormon.  Many revelations Joseph Smith received in how to run the Church as well as revealed doctrine from when he asked questions of God are in there as well as a few other important revelations received by later prophets. We expect that more will be added, but given the history so far, not that often. 

Edited by Calm
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I really think it would be a good idea for you to read the Gospel Principles manual I linked to before if you don’t want more surprises.
 

It should come in Dutch.  It covers the ideas/beliefs while scripture often presents what it is like to be a disciple and it is harder to put together all the doctrinal concepts or teachings.  You could ask the missionaries if they can get you a copy, but I will try and find an online link. 

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1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

Young, full-time missionaries have a job to do, which doesn't include digging into the deepest doctrine with people who are unfamiliar with the church. Their job is to teach enough of the doctrine to enable their investigators to have enough information to seek a testimony of the Gospel, Jesus Christ, and so on, through prayer, so that the investigator can acquire a desire in him- (or her-) self to be baptized. 

No that is not true. They could have easely told me this. And they would have done that if i whas another type of person. 

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

The standard course of study that the missionaries put their investigators through does not routinely cover what might be called "advanced" topics. This is such a topic. Your missionaries were definitely worried about upsetting you, but tried to prepare you for what you might eventually learn for yourself.

Offcourse they where. Everyone in my church is allready aware of the fact that i am getting upset really easy. And also that i dont do something if i don't want to do it. Like getting the priesterhood with so much hurry. I wanna take my time. Priesterhood means also more responsibilities. And to much responsibilities gives me stress.

 

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

You don't have to, fortunately. In your situation, I would say you are excused from it, unless the situation changes. And I have no idea how that might happen. 

And Merry Christmas to you and your kin!

Kin? You mean my chin? That is kinda rude. Don't you think?

I am allready really insecure about that. My whole face actually. 

Merry Christmas and god bless. ✝️

Edited by Dario_M
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1 hour ago, Calm said:

I really think it would be a good idea for you to read the Gospel Principles manual I linked to before if you don’t want more surprises.
 

It should come in Dutch.  It covers the ideas/beliefs while scripture often presents what it is like to be a disciple and it is harder to put together all the doctrinal concepts or teachings.  You could ask the missionaries if they can get you a copy, but I will try and find an online link. 

Yes i will do that right now. I whas to buzzy with the links that Stargazer had send me. But now i am done with that so i am ready to take a look at your link. 

 

Edit, i have read it all. And it whas not in Dutch but in English btw. But that doesn't matter. 😌

That whas long. But really educative. 

Edited by Dario_M
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44 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

No that is not true. They could have easely told me this. And they would have done that if i whas another type of person. 

From what you have said***, my guess is they told you this, but you didn’t get the nuances yet.  It is a lot of content in a short time.

Quote

 

Now i think back i can remember that my missionaris told me that i really need to marry a woman one day in the futhure. Even tough he knew that i whas gay. I said NO dont wanna do that. He whas keep on going on about it till the point that it started to annoyed me a bit. Now i know why he did that. All tough he never told me that i would never go to the celestial kingdom if i dont wanna marry. Propbably because it is so absurd offcourse. And even he couldn't get those words out from his lips. 

I hope it is clear now, you can go to the Celestial Kingdom as a single, but to receive all the blessings God desires to give us, which is Exaltation, one needs to be in a male and female couple, because being like Heavenly Father means in part that you will be a father if a man and a mother if a woman, parents of spirit children.

Edited by Calm
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4 minutes ago, Calm said:

From what you have said***, my guess is they told you this, but you didn’t get the nuances yet.  It is a lot of content in a short time.

Okay yeah. That also true. It is a lot to remember. Or maybe i just have missed it. I did not always payed to much attention. 

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

I hope it is clear now, you can go to the Celestial Kingdom as a single, but to receive all the blessings God desires to give us, which is Exaltation, one needs to be in a male and female couple, because being like Heavenly Father means in part that you will be a father if a man and a mother if a woman, parents of spirit children.

Oh my...  that is hard too read. 

From the bright side... now i don't need to have high expetations anymore for the futhure ....when i will die. My life right now is far from perfect and when i die it will stil not be perfect. How nice. Plus i will miss some blessings. Well at least i know now. Thank you guys. 🥰✝️ 

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3 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Okay yeah. That also true. It is a lot to remember. Or maybe i just have missed it. I did not always payed to much attention. 

Oh my...  that is hard too read. 

From the bright side... now i don't need to have high expetations anymore for the futhure ....when i will die. My life right now is far from perfect and when i die it will stil not be perfect. How nice. Plus i will miss some blessings. Well at least i know now. Thank you guys. 🥰✝️ 

The afterlife is not seen by Latter-day Saints as a time for reward or rest or ever worship.  Heaven is all of these, but also much more.  It is also a time for growing, for changing, for becoming something and someone much, much more than we are now…we may hardly recognize who that someone is if we could see the future us now anymore than we can comprehend the depth and power and glory of God.

None of us as we are now deserves to have high expectations of the future.  Our hearts and minds are too small.  They need to grow and stretch into much greater beings before we can reasonably expect exaltation….but we can reasonably expect that time will come because God has promised us it can.

We believe in “eternal progression”….which means even God is gaining in glory, becoming something more in some fashion.  This may be just through having relationships with others who are moving from very simple, know nothings little intelligences (whatever we were in the early part of our existence) to his spirit children to mortals to resurrected, glorified beings, some of those even becoming exalted like God himself.  Or it may be that God is also learning and growing in what he can do, though we may not be able to comprehend how this can be in a being we believe is omnipotent and omniscient.  There are a lot of things we don’t know yet about the nature of God and the eternities past and the eternities future as our mortal minds are too limited to grasp how it all works.

Because we believe in eternal progression and believe that becoming like God means in some fashion we too will become spirit parents, ushering the previously existing intelligences into spirit bodies, who then live with us for a time until they are prepared to have their own mortal experience, to die and then be resurrected and join us and our Father in heaven to be gods by our sides just as we did with our Father and Mother.

But even at death we have barely scratched the surface of what we need to be to be like God.  The afterlife will be a long time of learning and changing, receiving and then comprehending the blessings of the Atonement and then the blessings of what Kingdom we desire to be in.  It is quite possible that we will put aside and transcend the desires we have as mortals.  Love will still exist for us because we know that God loves us, so as we progress we will grow in our ability to love others as well.  

I have wondered if this means physical attraction and other aspects that we focus on will become meaningless for us in the future and instead we will love someone and want to be with them forever because of the type of person they help us become and because of the type of person we can help them become and even more so, the kind of couple we can be together which will be so much more than what we would be separately.

Have you heard of the phrase “the whole is greater than the sum of the parts”?  To me that is what the man and woman exalted together become, something much, much more than either could be on their own.  An analogy would be to say a man or woman can each create 100 beautiful art works on their own, so the total of their separate work would give us 200 masterpieces.  But if they work together, each bringing what they are best at and then working together to build on that, instead of 200 masterpieces, they can together create 10,000 masterpieces.  Another example could be if the two of them combine their light, it is not twice as bright, but it would be 100 times as bright and growing even brighter the longer they share their light with each other.

Latter-day Saints are taught this kind of exalted relationship can only exist between a man and a woman.  We don’t know why, it seems logical it is related to procreation, but there is in my opinion likely something more.  So it is not that anyone not in that type of relationship is being punished or a gift that they could received is being withheld, exaltation is for a man and for a woman because that is how it works and it is not something that can be changed just because we want to change it.  If we want the color green, but we want to use the colors red and white to make it, are we being punished when we end up with pink?  If we want green, we need to realize and accept the best way to get that is to use blue and yellow.

My guess is at the time of death, none of us are ready to have an exalted relationship with anyone, not even if we were sealed in the the temple.  Using the color analogy with being green being the equivalent of being exalted, I think of us at death as muddy browns and greys, lacking in having not only enough of the pure blues and yellows in us, but also having a lot of the wrong colors.  We must both be purified so all those wrong colors are gone (not only sins, but anything that keeps us from becoming the best of our eternal self that we truly desire to be), but also have added to us through the Atonement all the rich blues and yellows (aspects of God like his omniscience and infinite love, his glory) that God has in his nature that he is sharing with us that will allow us to become the most intense, bold and powerful greens that can exist.

What this means for me personally is if my husband wants to achieve exaltation as well, he and I will go through purification and the exalting learning process what ever that might be and in the end how we love each other will be very different and will be much more personal than how we love each other now.  I an not even sure if any of that love will be attached to the part of him that is male…iow, I will have a 1000 reasons I love him, some of which I love now (he is kind, he is funny, he treats children in ways they know they are loved for who they are and not just an duty to fill, he never criticizes), but just maybe “I love my husband because he is male” isn’t on the list. 

It is hard to explain what I mean. Many of us are programmed to not think of anyone but the opposite sex as a romantic partner and I think many in the church assume we will still be programmed to think that way.  Like we start out with two circles which define attraction for us., where one circle is sex/gender we are attracted and the other circle is sex/gender we are not attracted to and that is likely the first thing we notice in others.  Then inside that circle of sex/gender we are attracted to, there will be two circles of another attribute of attraction.  For me that could be height as I just don’t feel attracted to people that are not significantly taller than I am…so one circle of everyone taller than 5’9” and another of those shorter.  Than in the tall circle, there is another circle that might be wearing clothes that look good on them, then having a great haircut…since I am talking about things that first attract me, they are pretty much all appearance based since it can take me way too long to build up the courage to actually talk to someone I am attracted to.  But when it gets past attraction and becomes about love, some of those circles may disappear.  I wasn’t attracted to my husband initially.  His clothes weren’t that great, but worst he had glasses that made his nose pop out and a mustache that was too small and haircut that looked like it was done by his mom…which it could be.  So in my mind when I first looked at him and for months afterwards, I saw a nice guy I liked being friends with, but not husband material.  Until I got to know him on a one to one basis and experienced how he never looked at me like I was a problem to be fixed and he played with this nieces and nephews because he wanted to play with them, not to be a good uncle. My family interacts by helping each other with our problems…whether we want them to or not; we were pretty much left on our own as kids if we were doing okay, the ones having the difficult time got the attention; the squeaky wheel gets the grease if you know that saying.  It was a great relief to me to be able to turn off the problem solving part of my brain and just have fun and I could do that with the person who became my husband.  Life is much better if not viewed as solely a test we must solve or endure, but as something of value in itself to experience.   Being able to have fun even if there was work to be done, making play as important in life as work…I didn’t know that was of top importance to me until I experienced it with my husband.

And then there were a few more things that happened and then suddenly on my list of requirements for a husband knowing how to wear clothes and choose haircuts to look sharp disappeared and I married him even though he didn’t match my “ideal man” because being with him changed what my ideal partner was.  If by chance I hadn’t married my husband, my list of husband requirements would always have near the top “playing is as important to them as work”.

I believe this is what will happen when we are exalted.  For those who wouldn’t be attracted in this life to the type of person they need to be with in order to be exalted, their experience as they grow more through the Atonement in both experience and love, they will find that what was once most important loses that importance and they will come to desire in their loved one those attributes which will help they become like God.

Which mean a relationship that may appear to be distasteful now may be the one you will seek for as other aspects in a person than their sex become more important to you.  So just because you aren’t ready for exaltation now due to your current desires (and really no one is I am guessing, we all have desires that will get in our way eternally even if they are working for us now) doesn’t mean you never will be.  It comes down to trusting God as having set up a way to exaltation available to anyone who truly desires it, not by changing the rules depending on the person, but by helping us learn what we truly want in our eternal lives.

This is my own way of thinking about the life to come, so don’t expect others to explain what happens next in the same way.

Of course, we Saints may be wrong in our beliefs we share, like we have living prophets teaching us new revelation and like exaltation/godhood being only available to a man and woman married to each other.  No one else has to believe the same thing if they don’t want to, if it doesn’t make sense to them.

Edited by Calm
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@Calm Wooow! That whas a long post. But i have read it all. Thank you so much for all the effort you did. 🥰 

Beautiful storie btw.... about how you have met your husband. And that you didn't felt attraction in the beginning. But later on you end up marry him. 

True love still exist i see (for others). Nice to read that. I had a relationship for 9 years. In the biginning i whas deeply in love with him. But he didn't had a really nice personality. I figured that out soon. But i still stayed with him. Because i wanted to make it work so badly. Our relation whas a disaster. We have split up. First as friends. But now he have made it clear that he actually is completaly done with me and never ever wanna speak with me ever again in his whole LIFE. Because i said something he didn't like. 

Finding real love is a blessing that is not for everyone clearly. 

But on the bright side: At least he have giving me a big *** laptop of 1000 euro's that i still use. And my phone that i am using on this verry moment. 200 euro's. My watch that i still have, also 200 euro's.

I also don't need to go to the Netherlands anymore for him. That is also nice because i dislike the Netherlands anyway. And travel back and fort with the Airplane also exhaust me big time. No troubles with timezones. And no 3 hour travels with a plane anymore. 

God bless you dear Calm.✝️

 

Edited by Dario_M
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  • 1 month later...
On 2/2/2023 at 11:40 AM, Tacenda said:

Just wondering what is happening. Why are apologists leaving? The latest is Tyler Livingston. He was part of Fair at one time I guess. 

“Tyler Livingston” posted recently on another board where he goes by the name “ttribe.”  We have a frequent poster here who also goes by “ttribe.”  The ttribe who posts here has made no secret of his disaffection from the Church.  Maybe these are the same person.

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1 hour ago, Okrahomer said:

“Tyler Livingston” posted recently on another board where he goes by the name “ttribe.”  We have a frequent poster here who also goes by “ttribe.”  The ttribe who posts here has made no secret of his disaffection from the Church.  Maybe these are the same person.

Interesting.  If it's the same person, then ttribe has been out for a while, hasn't he?  Like a few years at least?

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14 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Interesting.  If it's the same person, then ttribe has been out for a while, hasn't he?  Like a few years at least?

That's why I don't think it is, but not sure. Was thinking @Calmmight know about it. I saw this on the unmentionable, or so called trailer park site ;). Maybe I'll go look again, and see what they said, but thinking ttribe isn't Tyler. 

Edited by Tacenda
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44 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That's why I don't think it is, but not sure. Was thinking @Calmmight know about it. I saw this on the unmentionable, or so called trailer park site ;). Maybe I'll go look again, and see what they said, but thinking ttribe isn't Tyler. 

Let's just ask, that seems like a good way to handle it (unless it's supposed to be a secret?).  @ttribe?

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18 minutes ago, ttribe said:

 

 

 

I am not Tyler Livingston. My name is Tim Tribe (hence the username). The thread you are referring to @Okrahomer does not say Tyler is "ttribe." Rather it mentions that I left amongst a list of people who left, including Livingston.

Thanks for clearing that up!  

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2 hours ago, ttribe said:

 

 

 

I am not Tyler Livingston. My name is Tim Tribe (hence the username). The thread you are referring to @Okrahomer does not say Tyler is "ttribe." Rather it mentions that I left amongst a list of people who left, including Livingston.

Thanks ttribe! And sorry to have hijacked this thread for my uses.

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20 hours ago, ttribe said:

 

 

 

I am not Tyler Livingston. My name is Tim Tribe (hence the username). The thread you are referring to @Okrahomer does not say Tyler is "ttribe." Rather it mentions that I left amongst a list of people who left, including Livingston.

@ttribe:  I googled the name “Tyler Livingston” and it took me right to your post — and I leapt to the wrong conclusion.  Apologies.

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